greasegirl87

I've been having problems with m 1987 Trans Am I just bought 2 weeks ago. The lights don't always pop up. Is new motors the only solution?Also, sometimes the lights fade in and out or only the high beams work, or vice versa. If you can give me any help, I'd be greatful. Electronics is not my specialty.
Thanx,
greasegirl87

hellfire

not sure how to create a link to this post, sorry. but here is the info you need.



Third Generation F-Bodies > Tech Boards > Body and Interior > Fix your Firebird headlight motors

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Fred89xs
Junior Member

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 8
Fix your Firebird headlight motors
I recently had to rebuild the headlight door motors on my son's 89 XS. After a lot of trial and error, I was able to get them working great while still maintaining the clutch effect of the gear box. Here is what I did:

Remove the link rod from the motor cam to the headlight door. I used 2 flat head screwdrivers to gently pry this 'snap on' connecton apart.

Removed the motors (3 long bolts with 10mm heads from the side). Be patient, they are a pain to get to. Anyone know of an easier way?

Remove the cam with a single 10mm nut.
Pull the gear cover off the motor with 3 small hex screws.

Shake out the 'plastic dust'. I'm assuming that this was originally some type of viscous fluid for the clutch. Anyone know what was originally in here?

Gently pull out the white gear/clutch assy.

Separate the plastic gear from the metal insert/shaft.

Clean out all of the old plastic dust.

I built 3 stops from 3/8" soft plastic tubing (you can get it at a plumbing or pool store) cut in 1/2" lengths with smaller hard plastic tubing pushed inside to add rigidity. Inside the hard plastic tubing, I inserted a 1/2 inch piece of a #10 bolt to make sure the piece keeps it's round shape. (lots of trial and error, here) Ideally, you could use some type of solid, round (3/8") semi-hard rubber/silicone cut in 1/2" lengths instead.

I lubed the stops up with heavy silicone grease and placed them inside the gear.

Reassemble the mechanism and re-install.

This allows the motors to drive the headlights up and down but still allows them to 'break-over' when the door hits the stop so you don't burn out the motor.

Hope this helps.



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11-28-2001 11:27 AM



soulbounder
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Rayne, LA, USA
Posts: 1269
You can also use ball bearings or wooden dow rod cut and grinded to the correct size. I used wood and it works great.
I thought you were talking about a tranny there for a sec.



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11-28-2001 02:03 PM



Fred89xs
Junior Member

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 8
Be very cautious when inserting anything rigid (ball bearing or wood) in the clutch assy. The motors drive the headlight doors far past the stop. If the clutch can't slip, you'll eventually burn out the motor.

Fred



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11-29-2001 09:34 AM



soulbounder
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Rayne, LA, USA
Posts: 1269
What in the world are you talking about?



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11-29-2001 10:38 PM



Fred89xs
Junior Member

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 8
The motor assy that drives the headlight covers up and down has a built in clutch to allow the motor to drive against the stop without destroying the brushes. This is the place you are talking about inserting bearings or wooden dowl rod pieces. Does that answer your question?



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11-30-2001 10:39 PM



soulbounder
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Rayne, LA, USA
Posts: 1269
I've never heard of that before. The way mine work is that they only turn so much then they stop. It doesn't drive against the stop or anything like that. It's basically timed. It stops after it makes a certain number of turns. And you are still throwing me with the whole "clutch" idea. I tore down my motor to individual pieces and did not see any clutch. Oh well, the important thing is that they work, lol.



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12-01-2001 09:10 PM



jobryan26
Moderator

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Naples,Fl.
Posts: 1999

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by soulbounder:
I've never heard of that before. The way mine work is that they only turn so much then they stop. It doesn't drive against the stop or anything like that. It's basically timed. It stops after it makes a certain number of turns. And you are still throwing me with the whole "clutch" idea. I tore down my motor to individual pieces and did not see any clutch. Oh well, the important thing is that they work, lol.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Same here.

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12-02-2001 11:16 PM



jo88gta
Member

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Northern, Virginia
Posts: 32
You all have great ideas and I'm sure they all will do the job. I clean out the old nylon crap, then use 3/8" fuel line hose, cut 1/2" long - insert where the original nylon ones went - put it back together and it's done. The thicker, stronger fuel line hose creates a shock absorber type effect. Both motors work perfect. Done this to a couple of different cars and they're all working fine. If they eventually fail, do it again.

the part that takes the longest is taking the motors out and putting them back in - and that's not all that big of deal.


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10-05-2002 05:48 PM



84and85bird
Member

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Batesville, IN
Posts: 50
I started to install a new headlight motor in my 85' last week. I'm having a hard time getting that link rod back onto the headlight motor. How hard can I push, pull, or hit the link rod without hurting the headlight motor? I'm planning on repairing my old motor but its an 85 so it is a little different style of motor than yours. I think that I'll have to drill out the rivets that hold it together in order to get it all the way apart.



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10-05-2002 10:28 PM



gtaproject
Member

Registered: Sep 2002
Location:
Posts: 35
What's the trick with removing the white gear/clutch assy?

I have a spare motor laying around a figired I'd give this a shot. That big white gear and cam seem to be snapped into the housing somehow. I don't want to get to aggressive with it it and damage the gears.

Kevin


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10-06-2002 05:23 AM



84and85bird
Member

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Batesville, IN
Posts: 50
I managed to get that link arm back onto my headlight motor. I used a vise-grip and clamped it onto the link arm and to the headlight motor crank at the same time. It poped it right on.



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10-06-2002 11:53 AM



lonsal
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 1999
Location: Hacienda Heights, CA
Posts: 2064


The reason why you couldn't get the nylon gear out is because of a solid ridge on the gear. You need to remove the two screws holding the motor in place and slide the motor out of the way. The worm drive on the motor shaft is preventing the nylon gear from coming out. I make two headlight kits that will repair the 1987-92 Firebird headlight units. 207280 ($5.50) has 3 precision machined close tolerance Delrin bushings. These replace the OEM gel inserts. 208280 ($9.95) also includes the side cover and motor housing gaskets. I also include new zinc plated whsher head screws and nuts to mount the motor. The original ones often snap off when you try to remove them. I also include a detailed 4-page instruction sheet with the kits.

I caution against using a ball bearing for a couple of reasons. It has a much smaller contact area and will distort the nylon gear. I haven't found a source for the nylon gears. Aftermarket ones machined of bronze are available, but are rather pricey. The Delrin bushings have much better lubricity and are machined to exactly fit the space between the gear and the 3-lobe hub and won't damage the nylon gear.

I haven't found a "Clutch" in the headlight motor unit. They may be referring to the OEM gel inserts, since these would give a bit under load. This is also why they fail. The headlight unit is load sensing. When it reaches the end of travel it senses it and shuts down the current.

E-mail me at: topdownsolutions@yahoo.com if you need a kit.

Lon Salgren
Top-Down Solutions


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10-06-2002 07:14 PM



RICHRAD
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: kentucky
Posts: 377
1. no clutches
2. anything basicly rigid in the shape of pegs will do
3. make sure shims go back in correctly
4. careful, assembly arms will bend easily when popping back on
5. the 3 motor screws are more easily access from underneath car after popping off splash sheilds



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10-06-2002 09:00 PM



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Z28Clone

sometimes its not the motors, i had an 86TA. turns out it was in the headlight switch. try pushing in the switch slowly and not fast. i learned that method and it worked everytime.

greasegirl87

Thank you all, I'll try and see if it works.

2vmodular

patrickm00

however, if it is the motors, they're very easy to rebuild, the only part to be careful of is not breaking the screws (which tend to rust and sieze), since drilling them out takes a lot longer. i had to drill 6 screws since all of mine were rusted, but the whole job took only about 3.5 hours, 2.5 of which was drilling/tapping/buying new cobalt drill bits halfway through.

patrickm00

and put a multimeter on the motor leads and check to see if you get the 12-14V when they should be going up right after someone pushes the switch

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

I sell the headlight repair kits on my web site.

Lon Salgren
Top-Down Solutions

bwb85ta

I have a similar problem my head lights won't go up but they will go down I think it may be a relay i'm not sure sometimes they go up it is driving me crazy I am new to the site and can't figureout how to start my own thread.

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

1985 Firebird, right? Check the headlight relays. Next time you turn them on & they won't go up? Pop the hood & see if they come up with just the "shake" of the hood popping or (if they didn't) give the relays a "tap" (light hit just to shake it) and see if the headlights come up then.

bwb85ta

that used to work ,but now they only go down I would pop the hood to check out what was wrong and they would pop-up or close the hood and then they would work

bwb85ta

the motors seem to be fine there is alot of black grease or goo in the relay plug assuming it's to keep moisture out I messed with the relay nothing happened then on the way to pick up the one I ordered I tried them again and they went up so I replaced it anyway so far so good thanks.