86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

Did a search and reviewed the FAQs here. I am not sure if I have one issue with the VATS or it is several issues combined.

Car is a 91 GTA. I went to start it one day, and nothing on the first attempt. Turned key off and tried again, car started. Now nothing, but the fuel pump cycles. The security light is not on all the time, I have checked circuits and wiring. I have the correct resistance for my key at the switch because if I disconnect the 2 wire connector at the base of the steering column, it shows the same resistance with the OHM meter.

I need ideas/help! Spent a lot of money getting this thing back togther this year and want to enjoy it.

Thanks in advance!

OldMan89

I just finished troubleshooting this same type issue on my 89 firebird and 89 camaro. I had the same issue you are describing. cranks sometimes, not others. wait 10 min or so...cranks right up. In my case, it was the ignition switch. this is a 14 dollar part and it is pretty easy to replace. It is on top of the steering column.

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the quick reply.

I have been leaning toward that, but I would think that if the ignition key switch was the issue, I would not be getting the key resistance at the two wires?

When you ordered the switch, did you need the VIN? Does the VATS module / ECM PROM know the resistance of the key?

OldMan89

Ignition switch is separate from the VATS system. If the VATS was your issue, the starter would kick but the injectors would not fire, imo. You do not need the vin, just engine type to order the switch. My autozone had it in stock at the hub location.

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

Thanks,
I'll try it and see what happens...

gasca_06

If VATS module was the problem, you wouldnt have crank OR injector fire. But you WOULD have a functional fuel pump. that was the case for my 90 iroc-z anyway.

henryd3

iTrader: (128)

Checking for resistance at the plug may be good if the key is in but not turned. Often times the wires start to fail and will show more if you check the resistance while turning the key back and forth. May just be intermitent, but won't stay that way long. New key switch doesn't have to match anything, but you have to get a key made that fits the lock with the same resistance value as the one you have now. Just use the key that comes with the switch and take it to a locksmith with your old key

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

I'm sure it is a VATS issue, when I turn the key to start, I have nothing, no crank, no injectors, and the fuel pump runs. What does that sound like? And, when I turn the key on, the security light illuminates, then goes out after a few seconds. Which is normal, correct? I have done tons of searches and reading on this VATS and I am getting confused by it all...

Ok, gues I am not sold on it being the iginition switch. How do you get an air bag equipped steering wheel off since there isn't a horn button in the center like the older TAs had (ie 87)? Hayne's manual doesn't address that...like many other things...!

henryd3

iTrader: (128)

First, disconnect the battery. Then if TA's are the same as Camaros, there are four torx screws you remove from the rear and airbag should lift out freely, but carefully unplug the yellow air bag connector on the back. Then you need a 13/16 socket or wrench to remove the wheel bolt. You'll need a steering wheel puller and a lock plate remover to depress the spring enough to get out the locking ring that holds it in. Found at parts stores for purchase or sometimes rent

gasca_06

I have done a lot of research on this VATS issue that affects many people. Sooner or later the vats system will fail, whether through the ignition switch or the vats module, but very rarely is it the ecm. SO...what I did was buy a bypass module from 3rdbrakelight.com , installed it, and my car started right up! Ill find another way to make an anti-theft device.

old z mzn

iTrader: (1)

maybe disabling the vats on the chip might be easier. that's what I did.

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

How do you know if it is the ignition switch or the module?

bwnunley

Every other time i try to start my car nothing happens? Everything works, power to everything but wont start. The security light stays on also. Turn the car off for a few mins and it cranks right up? Any advice or questions? Thanks.

old z mzn

iTrader: (1)

maybe this link will help some.

http://sethirdgen.org/vats.htm

henryd3

iTrader: (128)

Often times the small wires coming from the key switch start breaking from turning the key back and forth. Sounds like yours could be getting that way, but is still barely connecting intermittently when you move the key. This isn't going to keep on working and will eventually fail leaving you stranded who knows when and where. I'd either fix or bypass it while you have the chance to do it at home if I were you. First try cleaning off the resistor pellet on the key to make sure it's not causing a problem being read, or try another key if you have a spare of the same resistance, you never know sometimes

bwnunley

How can i check if the wires are worn out? If u can tell me step by step that would be great.Im no mechanic and dont really have the money to pay an arm and a leg. Any info is greatly appreciated.

henryd3

iTrader: (128)

Only way is to look which takes removing steering wheel, or when it's not working by checking the resistance at the plug at the bottom of the column with the key in. Either one takes a bit of mechanical ability

bwnunley

Is there an easy way to bypass the vats altogether?

henryd3

iTrader: (128)

Do a search on this board, there is a TON of info on the subject

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

old z mzn,
Thanks for the link. Will try to figure this out today when I get home.

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

Just measured the resistance, here is what I came up with:

Key only, 3.74

Key in ignition switch, off position, -12.34
Key in ignition switch, on position, -12.34

All Ohms measured on 20k scale.

Bad igintion switch? Ideas?

old z mzn

iTrader: (1)

just a thought. my wife's formula had a corroded wire at the battery. it had two wires one was clean the was bad. could not see it because of side mount battery. took off the cover on the cables and cleaned the wires and got new terminals. fine now

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

I wasn't that lucky...

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

Any ideas? I have to get this thing running!

henryd3

iTrader: (128)

OOPS

old z mzn

iTrader: (1)

did u get it fixed

travis401

iTrader: (1)

if thats the measurements youre getting from the wires comming from the column with the key in, then the contacts in the ignition cylender arent making contact with the key resistore, or theres a problem like a wire rubbed through or something along those lines. the easiest fix for that is to get a resitor for the value of your key, and wire it into the wires comming from the passanger side that plug into the column. itll bypass the key contacts and make the VATS system think the correct key is always inserted in the ignition.

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

OK, I got the resistors and will try to get them wired into the car today. I'll give that a shot for now and later replace the switch.

Makes me mad everytime I get into my 86 TA without VATs and it starts while I look over at the GTA sitting there, I am not one of those sold on all the electronic crap coming on cars today...

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

Bypass didn't work...

Looks like I'll be replacing the iginition switch. I got to get this thing running...

travis401

iTrader: (1)

if the bypass didnt work, then the problem isnt in the steering column. It means either the VATS module itself is out or its not sending the enable signal to the ECM. Or the problem isnt VATS related at all....

travis401

iTrader: (1)

That all is under the assumption that the bypass was done correctly of course.

old z mzn

iTrader: (1)

go to www.moates.net.

get the adapter and chip. then myself or some else can make you a chip with the vats disabled.

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

Make sure I am correct about this, Radio Shack didn't have the "value pack" of resistors.

So, I bought the following:

My key is 3.74 Ohms
I bought a 3.3k and a 470 ohm resistor and soldered them together. That measured 3.770 ohm when I checked it. The range based upon charts I have saw here, shows 3590-3910, so I am well into the proper range.

I waited 10 minutes after I put it into the car to make sure the reset occurred. And, nothing again.

Did I do everything correct? I watched the video on youtube and did exactly at it said.

Thanks!

travis401

iTrader: (1)

that all sounds right. the only problem would be if you plugged it into the wrong wires. other than that it looks like the best option for you would be to either burn the VATS out of the ECM, or get a VATS bypass box.

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

travis401, thanks for the help!
The security light does not stay on, it goes out like it should. Really confused about all this. I have an SLP Prom and need to figure something out about it.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

if the security light goes off, that points to another issue besides VATS.

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

Could it possibly be the starter enable relay? Think I'll check that when I can and see if I am getting power. However, I was getting volts at the starter...

Frustated, all the VATs seems to be working correctly, but it is not turning over and I have no fuel pump....

old z mzn

iTrader: (1)

I have replaced the starter and the fuel pump. fuel pump fooled me sometimes it would work. most of the time not (30k). the starter just died(54k). hope this helps.

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the help, I know that stuff is good. Starting to think it is the VATs module itself.

To be honest, I am just about read to take it somewhere and have it fixed. Tired of working on it and not getting anywhere...know what I mean?

ymenic

iTrader: (1)

I wired a push start botton to my starter, been working good now for 2 years

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Find the starter enable relay, should be bolted to the dash support to the left of the steering column. Will have a fat yellow and a fat green wire coming into it, with the connector wiring coming out of the part of the harness running down the column to the ignition switch and headlight dimmer. Bypass it by connecting the yellow wire to the green one. If everything works every time, it's either a bad relay or something screwy with the module. If not, it's either the ignition switch or the neutral safety switch are either bad or misadjusted.

Have you tried cranking the engine while in any gear besides Park?

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

I will try this today and see what happens.

I don't think I have a VATS issue anymore, it seems to be working properly. If I can find this relay I will try to do this.

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

Alright, it is clearly not a VATS issue, I got it to run! Looks like either an ignition switch or the relay. Think I am going to change both and see what happens. I can't tell you how good it is to hear it run again!

Thanks!

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Now, plug the relay back in after removing the jumper from the yellow and green wires. Put your hand on the relay and turn the ignition on. You should feel the relay click if it's working. If not, you'll want to try a new relay first.

The issue isn't with the ignition switch or the neutral safety switch as the car will turn over with the relay jumped. I'm not sure as to what the starter relay looks like, but if it's a standard relay, you may be able to run to RadioShack and pick up one for about $10. If not, you may need to go to a dealer and get one if they can provide one.

If the issue isn't with the relay, you'll want to test the VATS module ground by hooking a test light to 12V and probing the relay's coil ground wire (at the relay, of course), which is black with a yellow stripe. If the module is working, the test light will ground with the ignition on and the light will light. If not, there is a problem with the VATS circuitry not enabling the relay.

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the help, I'll give it a try.

Really busy with work right now, so it might be a while before I report back.

Thanks again.