ttfitz

I have an 1986 Camaro, nothing particularly special about it except for the fact that it is the first car I ever bought and I almost literally drove it off the lot directly after they took it off the truck from the factory.

Now here it is almost exactly 27 years later, and it won't pass inspection because there is a short in the system that keeps blowing out the fuse for the horn. My mechanic has traced the problem to the rear tailgate, in particular somewhere in the third brake light located in a housing at the top of the hatch. GM no longer stocks parts for this car, and what he is suggesting is replacing the whole tailgate with one he has located online, I think.

Now, I'm not much good with cars, but it just seems outrageous to replace the whole thing like that at the cost of hundreds of dollars (as well as hundreds more to paint it - it is apparently white and my car is dark blue metallic) just because of a short in a wire.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this, or suggestions of what I could do? I live in the Northern Virginia area, just in case anyone might have specific information on places I could take it.

Thanks.

hitman0187

rear hatches can be purchased at most junkyards for approx $50 and installed in under an hour. You would probably want to get it painted before installing it, cant see that being any more than$100 max.

you may want to ask him how he can be sure its in the 3rd brake light.

TreeFiddy

That's completely ridiculous, you don't fix electrical shorts by replacing body panels. Your guy is just guessing, and badly. Find someone who can actually trace an electrical fault, or do it yourself.

I can't see how the hatch has anything to do with the horn. The horn fuse (ACC fuse) runs a whole bunch of stuff; the closest it gets to the hatch is the release switch and relay, but they are not located in the actual hatch. The only wiring there is the demister and third brake light, neither have anything to do with that fuse afaik.

ttfitz

That confuses me, too. I talked to the mechanic again today, and am slightly less confused, but still don't think his solution is a good one. Apparently there are two problems, not just the horn. He says when he replaces the fuse for the horn, when you hit the brake pedal, the two lower brake lights light up, but the center third light does not. When you then release the brake pedal, all three brake lights light up dimly, and the horn fuse then blows. He says the way the third light gets power is via contact between contacts on the hatch and on the car, right there at the power release. One thing I should add is that years ago I had problems with that power latch that I decided not to have fixed, and they just disconnected/bypassed/whatever.

So this makes a little more sense to me, but I still don't see that this is a good way to go about it. Clearly - to me in my limited knowledge of electricity and automobiles - it appears the short is happening somewhere around the area that the two circuits come closest together, the hatch release. Even if we replaced that panel, I don't see the problem with the horn being resolved - in fact, it seems more likely to me that the horn problem could be causing the brake light problem (he also said when they ran a ground wire directly to the third brake light, it worked fine).

Am I missing something (which could very well be likely, I really don't know a lot about this stuff), or has he just become fixated on this other problem and isn't seeing everything?

Maybe I should just follow my brother's suggestion - here in Virginia this car qualifies for antique plates, and I wouldn't have to get safety inspections on it (I don't drive it a lot, anyway).

jermdm

Almost sounds like you have a ground problem and a short at the same time. I would have to see a wiring diagram to see whats actually going on. Dont listen to your mechanic. I dont think he knows whats he's talking about. He'll end up making you spend alot of money and never fix the problem. Guessing doesnt fix the problem.

TreeFiddy

Unfortunately I'm not there and can't help troubleshoot this hands-on, I quite enjoy tracking down stuff like this. I'm not a mechanic, but in 20+ years of chasing electrical faults in various old bangers for both myself and lots of friends, I've never come across a situation where the solution was replacing a large piece of the car. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but it's just not logical. Replacing electrical parts ON said panel, sure. But the whole thing? Especially on a guess? Uneccessary, and just causes more problems like the paint mismatch. I love when mechanics spend your money

I think maybe there's a clue here. This could be where wiring relating to the ACC fuse (hatch pull-down relay) was messed with previously.

jermdm

I just looked at a diagram and I think where you should start is behind the panel in the hatch where the hatch release relay is and the ground wire for the taillights. The only way for the power hatch to be blowing the acc fuse is that the wiring for the hatch release relay is butchered and the release switch on the console be broken and in the normally closed position. The switch is a normally open switch. Taillights or brake lights being dimmly lit when the letting off the brake is usually a ground problem with the taillights. I think the only way these to problems are related is that something funky is going on back there with the wiring being some of the wires are tied together or shorted together.

ttfitz

Yeah, I felt the same way - kinda like replacing the door because the side view mirror is loose (another thing I need to get done). I think part of it was he wasn't able to find replacement parts for it. My brother, who like you also isn't a mechanic, but has worked at an auto parts store for many years, feels the same way you do. He's said he'll check it out when he comes for Christmas in a couple weeks, which I might take him up on.

I think you might be right. That's where I'd be looking, anyway.

Oh, and I meant to say before, I visited your lovely city this summer/winter (ours/yours) and had a wonderful time. Really nice place.

Thanks for the help.

TreeFiddy

No problems, hope you can get it sorted out. Thanks for the city kudo's, visiting the US has always been on the to-do list, love to see NY or the mountain states like Colorado or Montana (I like the cold )

Funny we should be talking hatches, mine just got exploded today :
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/body...ml#post5439050

White93z34

iTrader: (1)

Now I'm not familiar with the 1986 hi mount third brake lamps but is it not powered the same way the 91-92 ones are? IE a curly cable that goes between the bow behind the headliner and hatch?

What happens if you track down the plug for the hi mount and unplug it?

i know the 87-90 ones are powered through the contacts at the end of the hatch.

TreeFiddy

The 86 (TA at least, assume Camaro too) has the odd little hatch contact block too. No curly cable. Goes to a wire, then a braided cable up along the inside of the hatch glass to the 3rd brake light up top. All this was hanging out the side of the car, after I got rear-ended today

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

Does your car have a solenoid hatch release or do you have to release it with a key? If it has a sloenoid release the ground wire that runs from the body ground location below the hatch pull-down unit to the 10mm screw that attaches the solenoid to the latch may be missing.

Lon

ttfitz

When we were in Sydney in early July, I read that it was the coldest first week in July in 20 years or the like, and except for the day trip we made to the Blue Mountains, we hardly wore a coat the entire time (and we very much enjoyed reading how back home was having an awful heatwave that we were missing). So I can see why you might like to visit colder places.

Man, that's rough. All of my accidents with mine have been front-end damage.

Latest update - I decided to take my car home and maybe let my brother take a look at it over Christmas. And at least as of my drive home, the horn, radio, dome light, etc works, and the brake lights work as they are supposed to.