DuffMan

iTrader: (1)

i know you guys probably hear this every day, but what are the laws regarding new engines in our cars? I have been tossing around the idea of finding a beater Camaro and installing a 350 (330HP from SDPC) and a 6-speed I have at my house.

Only question is, since I live in the communist state that is California, how do i go about smogging this car? Are the maximum eimissions values for the car determined by a stock 350 (the largest and most polluting engine) for the appropriate year? What if i buy a car when the 350 was not available (82-86)?

thanks a lot!

MdFormula350

maybe check the regional boards, and ask the people in their. i am pretty sure they would know whats going on.

RB83L69

I used to live there and had to deal with this...

Legally, you can only put an engine into the car that was actually available in that car, or one from a newer car. All devices that go with either the engine or the car, whichever is newer, must be installed, properly connected, and appear to be operating. That includes the cat, AIR, EGR, computer controls (SES light must work normally, and not come on during the test), every vacuum line and valve, EFE for carb cars, canister, etc. etc. They have a book that shows by VIN # what each of those is, for every kind of car, and they go around and look for every one. Then they put it on a chassis dyno and run it at 15 mph, then 25 mph, and measure the emissions.

Any part that differs from what came on the car must have a CARB (CA Air Resources Board) certification number. Parts usually have it displayed in some prominent place; Edelbrock or SLP headers have them, alot of intakes, etc. Open element air cleaners don't for instance, and won't pass. It's real expensive to get one, and of course the mfr has to be able to prove (burden of proof is on them to prove, not on the state to disprove) that the modification doesn't increase emissions, so not a whole lot of parts have them, especially not ones that really do much to the car except for headers.

That pretty much rules out that motor for a Camaro, according to the letter of the law. And, since its heads don't have the EGR passage, you will have to plumb the external one; otherwise, depending on what car you put it in, it will light the SES light for a non-functional EGR.

However, as a practical matter, if you put one into a car; and made sure that every device, as described, is there and working; and its emissions are acceptable, then you can generally slide through the inspection routine. On down the road though, if they do one of those road-side checks, and that inspector checks the engine numbers, you could be out of luck.

Additionally, if the car is coming from out of state, there's another inspection step it has to go through.

So your exact course depends alot on the particular car you choose. Pick some wasted old POS without a motor, you could have a real problem on your hands, just guessing what's supposed to be there and taking it through and hoping you got it right (odds are very poor on this one, I can assure you). Best thing to do would be to find one with a blown-up but otherewise untouched motor, and swap all the cast iron while leaving everything else intact.

Guest

It needs to pass the same criteria it does now. Honestly, it being a 350 doesnt make any difference from an emissions standpoint, the diff between a 305 and 350 in that respect is practically nil. Your only concern is that they dont know its a 350 instead of a 305, because that engine isnt approved for use in naziland. Only the HO (ZZ4) conversion with all related parts is.

Basically, you cant change the year or engine they smog the car for, unless you have a sticker from the referee approving the swap you made. You'll never get that on what you are proposing.

Parrydise7

iTrader: (1)

Madmax makes a good point. GM used to sell an HO 350 conversion for third gen Camaros. That swap (a ZZ4 350 and related parts, including a dual cat exhaust) was and is smog-legal in California, as long as you follow the instructions exactly (even if you are replacing a 305). Now, the bad news. That package (I forget the p/n) has been discontinued. About a month ago I spoke to someone at Scoggin-Dickey about that package. They still had two in stock. It may be a tough find but GM claims 355 horses and a 13 second quarter-mile. Check out the GM Performance Parts catalog for a p/n or give S-D a call. Oh, one other place, gmperformanceparts.com may still have the package in stock.

Black92Z28

That conversion was rated at 308 hp with all the emission stuff included. I used to have a car craft or hot rod magazine where they did this to a camaro. I believe it ran 13.7 in the 1/4 mile when everything was done.

Guest

Little clarification on what RB said:

The engine used must be the same year or newer than the chassis it is installed in. This changed sometime in the mid 80's, they used to allow older engines in newer chassis, but not anymore.

The engine must have all the emissions components from the vehicle it came from, intact, and in their original locations.

It still has to pass the sniffer test. The emissions levels are based on the engine, not the chassis.

It is possible to put in an engine that was never available in that particular car, and have it stickered legally. There arent any exclusions relative to what was available in that model of car, only that the engine is the same year or newer and all the emissions stuff is there. Its a bit of a fight though, because the state doesnt want anyone to do it. Unfortunately for them, theres nothing that says you cant. They just try to make it difficult. This does leave sort of an out on putting in a 350 since there were carbed 350's, but its a real headache that you dont want to go through with the referee. They know what you're up to and will just give you a hard time. Its not worth the effort. You'd be better off just swapping it, and saying its a 305. Who'll know? Just you, and maybe one or two **** smog techs that might run the casting number. I havent seen or heard of that happening anymore though, even though it used to.

Wasnt aware the HO conversion was disco. Figures.

Air_Adam

Geez... CA laws suck, lol

Here in SK, Canada there really are no laws about what's street legal and what's not, as long as you don't go overboard (ie. alky burning 454 with open headers)

Here, basically you can get your car approved as long as its not unreasonably loud and runs on gasoline (alcohol is a no no)

ratedrookie

I've been doing research on CA engine swap laws too and found a link that may help you further:

http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Che..._V-8_Smog.html

Madmax and RB83L69,

you guys seem to really know this topic so I have a question for you guys or anyone else that has an answer. I want to do a motor swap in my car, which is currently a '90 TBI. I want to swap a LT1. Do you think I will run into any problems with the CA emissions for this type of swap???

ratedrookie

I've been doing research on CA engine swap laws too and found a link that may help you further:

http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Che..._V-8_Smog.html

Madmax and RB83L69,

you guys seem to really know this topic so I have a question for you guys or anyone else that has an answer. I want to do a motor swap in my car, which is currently a '90 TBI. I want to swap a LT1. Do you think I will run into any problems with the CA emissions for this type of swap???

DuffMan

iTrader: (1)

Well, my plans are no for finding a 350 from a 3rd gen, and rebuilding it, and topping it off with a TBI for originality, using a caprice PROM. My next question is, will the car still have the same requirements as a 305, or will it be allowed to have higher emissions (for lack of a better term)? If the engine will have the same requirements as a 305, will it still be able to pass? What is the max cam lift, and compression ratio, etc. that i can use to build this engine, and still have it run clean?

thanks for all your help, and that article is great! good work

RB83L69

It will absolutely, certainly, NOT be allowed to produce higher emissions. It will have to meet its original specs.

Like we said, according to the letter of the law, you cannot put an older engine in your car legally.

But... if you stick some other block in there whether newer or older, or whether it results in a larger engine or not, and it looks to the eye like the original one (i.e. small block Chevy), and all the external devices such as sensors, valves, wiring, pumps, computer, etc. are installed and operating, and its actual measured emissions are within the limits for your make, model and year of car, chances are near 100%, they will pass it without checking the displacement. One thing they don't do that they could if they wanted to, is measure the engine displacement. If you do it that way you entirely avoid registering it as an engine swap and having to go through al that referee process. But, strictly speaking, it's still not legal; you could still get in trouble at a later date if someone determined that the engine is not the one for the car. What the odds are of that ever happening, I couldn't say; but i'd expect them to be mighty slim actually.

Cam lift and compression ratio will not significantly affect emissions, until the CR gets so high that the nitrogen in the air starts to burn. This happens at around 10:1. Stay below that, you'll be OK. The mechanical thing that affects emissions the most is cam duration. In a 350, if the cam has leess than 210° of .050" intake duratio and less than about 270° of "advertised" duration by whatever method the particular mfr uses to spec that, it will probably be possible to make it pass without too much trouble.

You'll need the larger injectors too.

DuffMan

iTrader: (1)

wow, thanks for all the info!

actually, I hadn't planned on using an older engine - i planned on finding a 89 or later 350 block, rebuilding it with my uncle, and simply put the TBI on, i wasnt planning on using an older truck TBI engine or anything

but i'm going to start making some phone calls around the area for more information for my county

thanks a lot again!

Eric

Guest

Depends on what you define as a problem.

If you go the no work route, you can take it to some shady smog place and they might pass it. I think the chances are slim at best, an LT1 looks nothing like a TBI. Something tells me they are gonna notice it. The other option is to get a sticker from the referee. You will need to have all the smog stuff intact and working, and I would really advise dumping a completely stock motor in there first, and save any mods you might want to do for later.

RB is right about emissions levels. Cant just pick a higher number. The only person who can authorize a change like that is the referee... and that is days of red tape. At best you will get to rate it as a newer 350, but chances are the emissions levels wont go up anyway. Way too much headache for little to no gain. I wouldnt even think about doing that.

Going from a 305 to 350.. I would seriously act real dumb when they ask what the CI is. Like, "Well whats the sticker say, that must be it."

ratedrookie

Madmax,

You are right about the referee station. After the swap, the car has to go to a referee station in order for them to make sure all emissions equipment is fully functioning. This is a step that you cannot skip and I was planning on doing this anyways. I've been reading the law and understand most of it, just not sure about one thing. The law states that the engine must have been available for the car it is going into. A 350 engine was available in 1990, problem is, it wasn't an LT1. I don't think it matters, but I wanna be sure before I start looking for a motor to buy. If you or anybody else has the answer, it would really help out.

DuffMan

iTrader: (1)

well, going by what rookie said, you are able to drop a 350 in an RS, as there were many B4Cs, so then legally they can't deny it right?

Guest

Dont know what law you are reading.

I put a 350 in an RX7 and had it stickered.

RB83L69

Right, I know a guy that had about a 81 Jaguar with a LT1 in it, and had it licensed.

It's possible, just a certain amount of hassle. You're not going to go down to the Arco station with the "smog Check" sign and get that done. And I cannot stress enough, if you want to go through the referee process, don't waste your time unless (1) the engine you want to put in is no older than your car; and (2) it will meet the emissions specs for the car you have; and (3) you have alot of patience, and aren't trying to pull the wool over the referee's eyes. They're not jerks, but they get paid the same whether you get your car licensed or not, so you need to know the law, comply with it, and have your ducks in a row when you go to get them to look at it.

RICH92RS350

I have a 300 HP 350 crate motor in my 92RS.
Still tbi, but custom chip, bigger cam, headers, 3" cat, etc...
Passes CA smog (with stock air cleaner installed for the visual inspection) as a 305 no problem.
Technically, only the open element air cleaner and afpr are illegal.
Just make sure all the smog crap is in there and functional for the inspection and don't tell them it's a bigger motor.
If it passes at the tailpipe as a 305, you'll have no problem.
Stay away from cams with big overlap (the computer won't like it anyway) and you'll be fine.
And yes, you may have troubles with an older motor in a late car.
-Rich-

PETE

iTrader: (1)

there is no way to tell you'd have a 350 v/s a 305. The emissions come from the vin. If you have a 305 the max emissions will be stated from the original 305 motor.