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Engine Swap Everything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.

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Old 04-06-2003, 01:06 AM   #1
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6.0 vs 5.7 LS1 swap

I remember reading somewhere that the 4.8-6.0 gm truck engines were iron versions of the ls1. I know some have attempted and completed the LS1 swap, but I was wondering if anyone has tried it with the 6.0. I would guess that all parts would be interchangable between the two, and both would be the same to install. I did a search and came up with a number of LS1 swap questions, and one asking about the 5.3 but no one seems to mention the 6.0? Is there a reason for the 6.0 being over looked?
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Old 04-06-2003, 01:28 AM   #2
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I have come to realize that there are a lot of people on this board that are more concerned with minor bolt-ons. It's a shame to see that the truly visionary amungst us, like yourself, go unenlightened as to the vast resource of knowlege and information presented on this board. Those of us that see the full potential of these cars are not limited by mear mortal constraints, only by the boundaries of our dreams.

I say if you can think it you can do it...it may take time, money, sweat, and pain; but the rewards will be far greater than a mear bolt-on could ever provide.

Do not be limited by the narrow minded within these walls, for it is inovation that drives this hobby and keeps it moving forward always. There are however certain truths that will be gained from the many members who have spent time on every aspect of their vehicles...These will never change but can be modified.
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Old 04-06-2003, 01:46 AM   #3
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Probably overlooked because the ls1 is a corvette/fbody engine, I don't think we look to trucks that often for motivation...

You may be the first to think of or attempt this swap, sounds pretty cool.. though originality is expensive (usually) and takes more time..

whatever you think of have fun!
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Old 04-06-2003, 09:12 AM   #4
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You might want to look around on some the LS1 boards; ls1tech.com, ls1.com, etc. for more info on that particular motor.
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Old 04-06-2003, 10:40 AM   #5
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I did a little research and the engine itself seems to be cheaper than an LS1. I found more around the $1500-$2000 price more than I did in the $3000. In my opinion this would be cheaper than the LS1 swap, and because it is an iron block and not sleeved it could also be easily bored. I am going to try some local junk yards, a couple of them pull the LS1 engines and sell them for premium prices but I imagine the truck engine is passed over so they might be a good deal.
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Old 04-06-2003, 12:57 PM   #6
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I have a 2002 silverado with a 5.3. I have also owned an LS1 99 Formula.
You can't really compare the two, but I can tell you my truck has great power and gas mileage, a 6.0 version would be even better as they are externally identical, go for the bigger one.
A couple of potential problems for you would be the intake and the oil pan. On the trucks the oil pan looks like a traditional SBC pan with a deep sump. The intake is also substantially taller than a f-body LS1, but probably still lower overall than a TPI intake.
Your right about the price, people have been ignoring these engines as swap candidtates for the most part. I say go for it. Any swap is going to be a good deal of work but you will learn a ton and working on this stuff is almost as fun as driving them.
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Old 04-06-2003, 01:13 PM   #7
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I'm not trying to stear you away from doing this, but here's a little info from www.Mortec.com

364 = 4.000" x 3.62" ('99-later, Gen.III, "LQ4" 6.0 Liter Vortec, 6.098" rod)

Looks like a short stroke 383....

It would be cool to say you have a "3rd gen" small block in a "3rd gen F-body".

I guess if you're gonna do something to be different, that's the way to do it.
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Old 04-06-2003, 05:04 PM   #8
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I am trying to find a web page with trucks, because if anyone has modded one of these they are probably the first ones. I know the escalade made somewhere in the 340 hp department so it is at least on level with an LT1 swap. Since parts swap between the LS1 and these motors I would assume that the extra cubes would give the advantage to the 6.0 . With not having to fab you're own mounts now, and the lower price of the 6.0 this might be a pretty worthwhile swap. I am going to go poke around some truck boards and post what I can find, anyone else is welcome to as well.
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Old 04-06-2003, 05:12 PM   #9
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As you mentioned above the truck engines are for the most part iron block engines. Part of the reason I chose the LS1 over the vortec is weight loss. The all aluminium LS1 is 150 LBS lighter than the SBC I yanked out.

Ethier way, both will bolt up to the 4L60E trans. Street and performance makes and modifies oil pans and pickups if you want to use the truck engine.
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Old 04-06-2003, 05:14 PM   #10
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Try www.ls1tech.com they have a GM Truck V8 Performance section in their forums. The truck motors will respond the same as a 5.7LS1 to similar mods. Torque curve will probably be a little different as the truck intake is taller.
Couple of other items to consider;
2002 and newer truck motors have the same kind of electronically controlled throttle as the corvette.
2003 and newer trucks have an all aluminum engine.
At some point they changed the cam, I think 2001, and picked up a little more power with the 5.3, not sure if the same is true for the 6.0.
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Old 04-07-2003, 01:11 AM   #11
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Still gathering some information. I was surprised to find out that the LQ9 6.0 heads flow a little better than the LS1 heads and almost as good as the LS6 ones. The swap itself does not seem to be as daunting as I first thought it to be. I managed to find dyno numbers on one truck that said the 6.0 put down 293 and 310 lbs ft, that seemed low to me but I don't know what year of 6.0 that came from. The choice is going to come down to weather the extra cubes are a bigger advantage over the 150 pound weight advantage the LS1 has. I still would like to see side by side comparison of the two, but that is proving to be difficult to find. Here are some links john from speartech left in my post LS1tech.


LS1 into a third gen

The same third gen running at the track
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Old 04-07-2003, 02:14 AM   #12
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i have a 2001 2500 with a 6.0 with an automatic and 4:10 rear end. i love the tourqe!!!! the oilpan is very deep and would hit the crossmember unless you did some type of fabracation. i want to put a 6.0 in my wifes 89 Camaro. and i believe the heads are based on the ls6 heads.

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Old 04-07-2003, 09:43 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by ckeene502
i have a 2001 2500 with a 6.0 with an automatic and 4:10 rear end. i love the tourqe!!!! the oilpan is very deep and would hit the crossmember unless you did some type of fabracation. i want to put a 6.0 in my wifes 89 Camaro. and i believe the heads are based on the ls6 heads.

keene
The oil pan isn't a problem I was told putting the fbody variant on solves it.
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Old 04-07-2003, 09:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by IROCJTOWN
I am trying to find a web page with trucks, because if anyone has modded one of these they are probably the first ones. I know the escalade made somewhere in the 340 hp department so it is at least on level with an LT1 swap.
My favorite is www.gm-trucks.com
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Old 04-07-2003, 01:36 PM   #15
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Found some specs on the motor itself.


Vortec H.O. 6000 6.0 V8(LQ9)

displacement: 5967cc
compression ratio: 10.0:1
valve configuration: overhead valves,2 valves per cyl
assembly site: romulus,mich
valve lifters: hydraulic roller
firing order: 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3
bore x stroke: 101.60 x 92.00 mm
fuel system: sequential fuel injection

horse power: 345@ 5200 rpm
Torque: 380@4000 rpm

RPM limiting: 6000 rpm
emissions control: evaproative system,catalytic convertor,postivie crank case ventilation
Materials:
block: cast iron
heads: cast aluminum
intake manifold: composite
exhaust manifold: high silicon-molybdenum,cast nodular iron
main bearing caps: power metal
crankshaft: cast iron with undercut and rolled fillets
camshaft: steel
connecting rods: forged powerder metal

Additional features: platinum tip spark plugs
extended life coolant
oil level sensor
electronic throttle control
Applications: Cadillac escalade, escalade EXT
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Old 04-15-2003, 12:08 PM   #16
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I think the big thing with the 6.0 truck block is: The iron block whill hold a higher compression than the AL. blocks.
I think you would need to evaluate what you plan on doing with the engine, ie: stroker, bore over, supercharge, or turbo.
Sure there are alot of people doing this to the standard LS1/6 engines, but the more radical engines have gone to the iron block.
just my 2 cents worth.
ProstockJohn is one example of someone who uses the truck block.
he is on the MFBA board, LS1tech, and other boards.
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Old 04-16-2003, 03:13 AM   #17
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Actualy the whole idea for me came about as I was looking at engine options for my camaro. My 406 swap went down the tubes and straight to hell so I was looking for something I could do myself(i.e. no machine work). After the body work and paint my goal has been to strengthen the chasis get new breaks basicaly to have the car ready for a new motor. Nitrous would be about the only power adder I had condsidered since the installation isn't bad and nothing has to be custom fabricated. Since motor mounts and wiring harness are made now the LS1 type swap is a possibility. People have said its an expensive swap but after looking at crates motors it seems about the same cost.
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Old 04-16-2003, 10:16 PM   #18
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You are absolutely right. If I had waited a month I would have saved lots of time and money. There is really no reason not to LS1 swap these days.
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Old 04-17-2003, 01:25 AM   #19
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WM_Sorh - I am almost positive that in the end the LS1 swap is the way to go. After you factor in the cost of the plug harness,motor and tranny, motor mounts, and even LS1edit then compare it to a similar crate set up such as a short block,afrs or vortecs+sd base,holley stealth ram/miniram..ect and a custom prom burning it about evens out. The fuel system dosn't really figure in since you will most likely want to upgrade it anyway.

The LS1 swap comes up alot on here, and I noticed alot of people try to discourage it by saying its more expensive,complicated, and not worth the effort. After some research I tend to think the opposite now.
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Old 04-17-2003, 08:11 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by IROCJTOWN

The LS1 swap comes up alot on here, and I noticed alot of people try to discourage it by saying its more expensive,complicated, and not worth the effort. After some research I tend to think the opposite now.
That's the difference between you and a lot of the other would-be swappers here...you're doing research and making an informed decision. Most of the guys that post expect a step by step procedure and plug 'n play installation, which the LS1 swaps definitely aren't.

When my current engine goes, a gen-3 engine is going in to replace it. My old '82 has been cross-fire injection, then tuned port injection, what's one more upgrade?
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Old 04-17-2003, 12:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by kevinc
That's the difference between you and a lot of the other would-be swappers here...you're doing research and making an informed decision. Most of the guys that post expect a step by step procedure and plug 'n play installation, which the LS1 swaps definitely aren't.

When my current engine goes, a gen-3 engine is going in to replace it. My old '82 has been cross-fire injection, then tuned port injection, what's one more upgrade?
True, but I can't figure out how someone managed to keep these cars on the road without a little knowledge research and being able to use basic tools. To be honest if you looked hard enough on this site you would find enough info and links to it to be a fairly step by step process. To be honest with the new mounts and a custom harness it is as close to plug and play as it will ever be. The swap is slightly more difficult than any other FI motor swap, granted its not going to be super easy but its far from rocket science.

I am also going to upgrade my car to a genIII, but there is a tad more info I want to gather before I set it into motion.
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Old 04-17-2003, 02:14 PM   #22
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I was under the impression that you had to use the stock manifolds to clear a thirdgen. This(other than being broke) is what would steer me away. Do they make headers for them that will fit a thirdgen? I have an LT1 that I will eventually put in, and have a new gen 1 350 in it now so I wont be looking for something new for a long time, but I was just curious. I guess I could go to an LS1 after the LT1 that way I can say that I have had all 3 generations of the small block in it. lol.

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Old 04-17-2003, 02:30 PM   #23
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One of the possible solutions for that I heard was to cut the flange off a set of LS1 headers and have them welded onto a set of big block tubes. I heard regular thirdgen headers can be massaged to work. I imagine it has been done somewhere before or there is a solution to it. I can't really say anything because I won't know until I do it myself. Speartech got into the 11s on stock manifolds so if it turns out to be more than I can do I'll stick with manifolds to.
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Old 04-17-2003, 02:41 PM   #24
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There's a new book by Chris Endres "LS1 and LS6 Performance" available at Amazon and whatnot, good reading.
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Old 04-20-2003, 09:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by kevinc
There's a new book by Chris Endres "LS1 and LS6 Performance" available at Amazon and whatnot, good reading.
I found the book on amazon and am ordering it. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
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Old 04-21-2003, 04:59 PM   #26
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Congradulations IROCJTOWN. You have seen the light. Keep us posted on your progress.
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Old 04-21-2003, 06:25 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by wm_sorg
Congradulations IROCJTOWN. You have seen the light. Keep us posted on your progress.

Thank you wm_sorg. The book will probably answer alot of questions and give me ideas for my new motor while the body is being painted. When I get down to bussiness I will take pics of the swap including the motor mounts. Changing the mounts will probably be the most difficult part, that is uncharted territory for me.

kevinc- I know the name of the book is "LS1 and LS6 performance", but does it have any info or anything on the 6.0? I am kinda impatient and can't wait to see for myself.
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Old 04-21-2003, 06:48 PM   #28
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The cams, heads, PCMs, etc. are all the same family so it's very useable knowledge.
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Old 04-21-2003, 08:46 PM   #29
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You are wecome! I am going for paint after my swap is done. Any insight you can offer would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 04-23-2003, 08:31 AM   #30
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Quote:
Do they make headers for them that will fit a thirdgen?
www.thirdgenresource.com sells a set.
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Old 04-23-2003, 08:36 AM   #31
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Thought yall might think this is interesting - chevy no longer produces iron V8s. They ALL are alum. as of 03.
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Old 04-27-2003, 07:00 PM   #32
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All aluminum? I dunno... i think their crate engines (sb and bb) will stay iron as they are now.
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Old 04-28-2003, 01:36 PM   #33
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I bought my LS1 in july of 1999, at that time the trucks were still vortecs. Had the 6.0 ls1 been available at that time, I probably have gone that route.

I know what you guys mean about how it is suprising some of these cars are on the road.
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Old 04-30-2003, 06:42 PM   #34
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Ok I finaly got the book in. I haven't read it entirely but after just flipping through it a little bit I learned some stuff I didn't know before. This has alot of good information in it along with some dynoed combos in the back. Very well written book, and I was familiar with the format of it since they also wrote the Mopar big block performance book I have(another great book). Anyone thinking about the swap should consider purchasing this book(its good to know about the engine you are attempting to drop into you're car). kevinc, thanks again for the tip on this book.
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Old 06-27-2003, 10:07 PM   #35
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Little update in case anyone else is still interested in this topic.

In the new SD catalogue they have 6.0 blocks for sell for around $600. The 5.7 block is over $1000.
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Old 06-28-2003, 01:14 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by AJ_92RS
364 = 4.000" x 3.62" ('99-later, Gen.III, "LQ4" 6.0 Liter Vortec, 6.098" rod)

Looks like a short stroke 383....
Nope, thats an overbored LS1

The LS1 has the same stroke, but with a 3.9" bore.
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Old 06-28-2003, 01:22 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Air_Adam
Nope, thats an overbored LS1

The LS1 has the same stroke, but with a 3.9" bore.
He didnt say that the LS1 was the same bore and stroke as an average 350, but just that the 6.0 has the same bore as a 350 with a longer stroke making it similar to a 383.

Ben
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Old 07-11-2003, 08:37 PM   #38
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The LS1 hp is supposedly 305 at the rear wheels, it would be interesting to see what the 6.0 would do with a LS1/LS6 intake and a LS1/LS6 cam. This may be a decent econo swap.
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Old 07-12-2003, 08:15 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Momar
He didnt say that the LS1 was the same bore and stroke as an average 350, but just that the 6.0 has the same bore as a 350 with a longer stroke making it similar to a 383.

Ben

Ok, sorry... read through it too fast
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Old 07-13-2003, 09:37 AM   #40
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LS1, LS6, 6.0 are Oustanding engines!

First a few 5.7 LS1 specific comments from first hand experience.

With a Lid, K&N filter, SLP Y pipe & SLP Dual/Dual cat back my 99 T/A made 313rwhp & 325 rwhp torque. M6

Added a 85mm MAF, TR55 plugs 323rwhp & 335rwtq

TEA 5.3 heads and 224 cam, headers, LS6 intake, 4.10 gears the car makes 418rwhp & 404rwhp. The clutch is stock and it stinks on the dyno. I think the LS1 is actually making more power but the clutch won't hold. My car is typical for a decent but not exceptional LS1. My car idles like stock, is just as easy to drive as stock, drives fine in stop & go traffic for a M6.

Many LS1's have made 445rwhp+ 410rwtq+ with LS6 heads & 230 sized cams.

The 6.0 weight's about ~80 lbs more but, the 01 and up 6.0 have heads that are based on the LS6 head which is worth 10 to 15rwhp over the heads my car has stock vs stock. With a little milling & port work the 6.0 heads have outstanding midlift flow, etc.

The 6.0 bigger CID allows for a little more cam.

The 6.0 has the potential with the LS6 intake to make ~20+rwhp more than a similar LS1 and ~25 to 30rwtq all depending on cam selection etc.

If the 6.0 was installed stock, I think the HP would be decent and the torque would be excellent.

None of the LS1 family are cheap to mod etc, but the offer a combination of performance, driveability, fuel ecomony, newer tech that's outstanding.

The potential for more cubes is there too if you want too
The 6.0 can be bored out .030 and sometimes .060 over. The LS1 can take a .005 to .010 overbore for clean up. The 3.62 for the LS1 & 6.0 crank can be offset ground so that it's a 3.82 crank for a gain of ~20 CID. In other words, .060 & offset ground crank get you 396 CID.

As for the JBA and Hooker shortie headers that can be used on a 3rd Gen for an LS1 type swap, most dyno testing in the real world shows the shorties are worthless compared to the 00+ iron manifolds. The JBA shorties will show a small gain over the 98-99 exhaust manifolds. Unles you custom fad a set of headers it looks like the 00+ cast iron manifolds like Speartech used are the best solution for the moment. It does sounds better to say, "my car has headers" but unless I found the shorties dirt cheap I wouldn't fool with them. As Hooker shorties the quailty was sorry for the most part with lots of slag in the primaires, thin metal, and lousy welds. My hooker LT's for my LS1 had similar issues too and required a good bit of work to make usable.

www.ls1tech.com has a section dedicated to swaps...it's worth checking out...I'm 99 Black Bird T/A on that board...come over to visit sometime and check out the LS1tech!
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Old 07-13-2003, 09:21 PM   #41
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Last edited by Roads88; 07-13-2003 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 07-13-2003, 09:21 PM
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