okfoz

What I have is an 1987 Formula, 312 (305 +.040) TPI, I have the SLP 1 3/4" headers. (lots of other stuff that won't matter once I do a swap)

I have considered going to the LT1 because it would be the most straight forward, not to mention the Headers will bolt on that I already have. I would then go with the LT4 Heads, cam, and intake kit from Summit... I figured it would be pretty kick butt...

But then I read that the LS1 is also a pretty good swap, a little more difficult, but not much, BUT my headers would not work . But I would get about the same performance out of it as the LT4 with my headers. (NOTE: I would need a 1996 or 1997 LT1 to do the LT4.)

BUT on a completly different direction, I already have several Big Block Buick Engines laying around that like to collect dust. 4 to be exact, with 2 more BB Blocks... The down side is that they are notably wider than a SBC, not to mention the Transmission is not a direct boltup,. but there is always the 200 R4 that from what I understand will bolt to the BB buick... I wanted to make a custom intake to accept TPI too . but Buicks are Moi Mucho Money...

Which is the better swap, the most cost effective, easiest to do and the best Bang for the Buck...

My car began life as an LG4, that I converted over to TPI, So not much scares me... But I really don't want to get over involved.

Any Suggestions?

John

TexasLT1

You don't need a 96-7 LT1 for the LT4 swap, any year LT1 will work. I've got mine on a '95 LT1. But on the topic of the LT4 swap, while it is a convenient kit that has everything in one kit, you can spend your money better ways and get better performance. If it were me, I'd do the LS1 swap and stay away from the Buick. While it will be cool, I can only see it becoming a giant money pit. The LT1 and LS1 swaps require about the same amount of work with the electrical requirements, so I'd pick which ever one you think you can spend the least on and get the same performance.

Air_Adam

Big Buicks are cool!! They are the lightest of GMs big blocks too... they weigh only a little more than a SBC does. Which Buick engines do you have though? 400? 430? 455?

If you could make it work, I say go the BB Buick route!

firebirdpl

id say go big block buick too sounds cool

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

LT1, preferribly with a T56, avoid the hotcam kit, get a set of nice ported stock heads with a matching cam.

okfoz

I believe I have 3 430's and 1 455, and 2 Blocks of unknown size...

John

okfoz

Thanks, for all the comments, I want to think this through...

Tex, What heads and Cam combo would you recommend for the LT1?

John

TexasLT1

While the LT4 heads are good heads out of the box, for the same amount of money you can take a set of stock LT1 heads, have them fully ported, machined for screw-in studs, larger valves, etc and usually come out about the same, if not cheaper than LT4's, and flow more. However, the LT4's will still flow more over an LT1 head if ported equally.

For a cam, it really depends on what kind of performance you are looking for. The Hotcam or CC305 (both very similar) are good mild performance cams for the LT1. I was running around 13.3 with just the Hotcam, 1.6 rockers, and headers, I'm sure I could have run a little faster with the experience I have now. If you are looking for a stout cam that still has great streetability and mileage, check into the CC306. It offers great power up top, decent power down low, but you really need to spin it above 6300 rpm to get all you can out of it. If you want maximum power without going for a custom cam, the GM847 is the way to go. High lift/high duration, there is no way you could get this thing to pass emissions if you need to, plus I've heard it loves 6800 rpm for the best power. Some people say you lose torque down low with the 306 or 847. Its not that you lose torque, it just moves up the powerband a little. With both of these cams though, you're definitely going to need better valve springs, hardened pushrods, guideplates depending on the rockers you choose, and Comp R lifters wouldn't be a bad idea.

Long answer I know, but I'll tell you what my ultimate setup would be:


-Ported LT4 heads with ported LT4 intake
-GM847 cam
-58mm throttle body, bump fuel pressure to 50 psi
-Cloyes Double Roller timing set
-Electric waterpump (not sure which one yet)
-Complete Comp valvetrain with springs, Ti retainers and locks, Comp R lifters, hardned pushrods, Gold 1.6 rockers
-Long tube 1-3/4" headers
-T-56 with Spec Stage 3 clutch
-4.10 gears out back in undecided rear
-28x16x11.5 slicks


Should be good for mid to low 11's. Might even go 383 with forged rotating assembly for nitrous or boost at a later date. Just depends on how things work out.

Spectre

not to intrude but why ?

The BB buick is the most expensive one oppsed to the 454 chevy, 455 olds, and poncho.

Tho, its the lightest one ..

Car craft I think made a comparison.. and the buick was 2k extra

compared to the others.

TexasLT1

it makes good power, but its overpriced for the power that you get. With that said, its a good kit for someone who doesn't want to shop around, has everything included, and has a great powerband.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I'd go with the Buick engine. If you don't see 11's with a decently built 455 resting between you're Formula (with slicks of course), I'd be in complete shock....

Run with the stock exhaust manifolds for now, as you can always get yourself an adapter plate for the tranny...

Now that would be unique. I think (for the right price of course), Arizona Speed & Marine might be able to help you there....

The Buick. If you don't care much for mileage, and cold weather starting.... the Buford in an F-Body will be an absolute killer. You won't even need to invest that much into the engine (providing its in good shape), especially for those who know how to port a head. They make so much freakin torque down low....

I'd honestly switch to the L05's fuel pump (if you decide to go Buford)... mainly because the TPI might be a little too overkill for the Buick (even with the Mallory AFPR).

Have fun, and Good Luck!

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

While the TPI on the buick motor would be an absolutely stupid idea....

If you'd like to run the buick motor and keep efi, i doubt theres too much stopping you from getting a singleplane carb intake for it, having injector bungs added and a tb adapter, then using your existing tpi computer and wiring.

DemonKnightDK

Use the buick 430 Thats my favorite engine of all time.. yes there are others that made more power, but the Buick 430 was 360 HP and 475TQ stock. ... and its cool to say I've got a 430. No one knows what a 430 is ^_^

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I've seen one Buick in a 3rd gen (happened to be a Camaro) - it was a 455. It was out at the track about 3 years ago. It ran about 2 tenths quicker than my 305 does now.

I'm sure there is more "left" in the guy's combination, but I haven't seen the car since.

RB83L69

Talk about ALOT of maze, and NO cheese at the end....

okfoz

That is my biggest fear at this point... I can put in a big ole Buick engine, it would be really cool, I would have soemthing unique...

On the down side, I was thinking... What if...

What if all that work and I dont get the performance out of it I am looking for

What if I put in alot of work and I can't get it to fit worth a darn

What if...

But the more I think about it, the LT1 is looking to be the best bet. I would not mind an LS1, or LS2 mind you, but I think since the LT1 will use my 1 3/4" headers... thats not money wasted, AND since the LT1 drops in with little modification to my car thats another big plus...

ALSO, when I consider my mother had an LT1 in her 1994 Roadmaster that would keep up with my 67 Buick Riviera that has the big ole 430, and subposed 360 HP stock, and 425 HP after the cam & other stuff I did to it... Both cars weigh about the same...

the LT1 might be a better package, a little more up front in money, but I think better bang for the buckaroo...

I dont know tho, a TPI BB Buick sounds too cool tho :shrug:

JOhn

jase

I really like the idea of putting EFI on older engines and making them more powerful and more effiecnt than they really were.I don't like what the smog **** are doing and making those old engine perform better is like a slap in the face.

sellmanb

you wanted to know bang for the buck...

well, I'd go with LT1.

The LT1 priced up comes out to about 6k completely finished (maybe a little more, but that's about the right number)

The LS1 beside a LOT of modification (that is well worth it in the end), will cost you about twice that of the LT1 at 12k

I have no idea on the BB Buick, but I'd imagine that figuring out the PROM burning portion of the EFI on that would be a royal pain in the butt... though it would probably cost you about the same as the LT1 swap since you already have the block. Plus a ton of custom work.

So the best bang for the buck... probably the BB Buick.

The best bang for the buck/work - LT1

And not to insult your engine building skills, but there's a good chance that the FI in a big block would lease you with "a big maze with little cheese at the end". Mostly because not many people do a FI BB...

so... want to be unique and not know what kinda power you'll be spouting, or go with a sure thing?

Me? If it were my 6k I'd put it into a LT1... but that just my opinion

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

With four hundred and fifty five cubic inches on tap...I'm pretty sure you'll be finding what you're looking for.

It'll fit. You'll just need to get a Y-Pipe fabricated... just use the stock exhaust manifolds (for now).

It sure does! Be different, go for it!

70BuickSleeper

Save your money, and put what you have in the car for now... the Buick engine. Stick the 455 in there, thats what im going to do after I finish my 70 Riv. You have the parts, so plop that in there. You should easily make 375+horse, and 500+++++ Torque with mild parts - decent cam, either stock intake or something like a Edelbrock, or TA Performance intake. Clean up the heads, go for around 10.1 compression and your set. Shorty headers might work, but if not just use the manifolds. The key is to get it in the car, have the car running and drivable, then put some other stuff on it - Aluminum heads and intake (Do that and the weight of the engine will be that of a SBC) They make adaptor plates to mate whatever trans you have to BOP pattern, so dont worry about it. Adapt it and go from there. Now, whether your tranny, driveshaft, rear, and body can handle all the torque is the question. Thats why I say go mild with the motor, so you can beef up everything after the cars drivable. If you spend the 8 grand to make the buick bullet proof and like 800 horse, and 800 torque and you have no money left to fix the rear you blew up, your screwed. Def. put in SFCs if you dont have them already. Thats my 2 cents, good luck.

okfoz

I was actually thinking about taking a rear axel out of a parts 1968 Riviera I have. shorten the axels, and weld on the appropriate brackets... then I KNOW it would be strong enough.

Then I would have "Akunna Matatta" ~ translated No worries... However you spell it.

Kewl, another 2nd Gen Riv guy on the boards... I think your the 3rd one I have met

John

70BuickSleeper

okfoz, check out my ongoing restoration/customization/race car build up.... Im trying to get a mean street car out of the riv.... but still keep it sleeperish. http://mysite.verizon.net/vze3fz64/buick/
Im getting a 70 electra 225 and then parting it out, but im keeping engine,trans, rear..... That may go in the camaro someday, but not sure.