lizardkng

Well, today we did it.

My uncle Barry and I will be working to get my old camaro back on the road....I dont have the mechanical skills to do it myself...so I hope to learn a lot from him....hes very good at this kinda thing...so we pulled it out from its hidey hole, and began its restoration.

In the summer of 99, I was foolish, and let the car get hot...I thought I could baby it home, and while I did get home, the next day it wouldnt start...its been parked since then....today, we pulled it out.

First thing we did, was connect a big roll around charger/starter deal to it, only to find we had no power anywhere. We wanted to roll the windows down to let it air out some...conencted it to the fusebox, still no power, anywhere, to anything.

We pulled a door panel, and cut the wires to the window motor, and connected 12v straight to it...it went down without a hitch.

I vacuumed it out and tried to clean out the clutter that was laying all over the seats...luckily, Barry has an air gun type attachment for his compressor, and that was very useful for blowing all the debris off and out of the car...the engine compartment was full of acorns, birdseed, and other assorted collectables...the mice have had quite a party in there it seemed...

lizardkng

So I go nuts with the compressor, and blow debris and junk all over the place....

lizardkng

The interior is not in terrible shape...needs a GOOD DEEP cleaning though....

Theres a big crack in the dash that wasnt there before, and the e-brake is pretty rusty...as is the shifter handle. The ignition cylinder is really rough, rusty, and pretty hard to turn. We had an issue with the steering wheel being locked and we needed to steer it into the garage...couldnt get the ignition to turn from locked position...quite a bit of jiggling and some squirts of something in there got it free, and we were able to turn the wheel again...

Also of note, I think I broke the shifter cable, because when we first started towing it, I was able to shift, and I could find the detents....after we parked it to clean it up, air it out, and get the windows down, we noticed there were no more detents to be found in the shifting mechanism....the stick goes from R to 1 without having to push the button.

Thats ok, I was kinda wanting to put a megashifter in in anyway...

lizardkng

Still cleaning it up, and trying to figure out where all the power is...

lizardkng

Finally we get it into the garage, pull the hood off, and start tearing into the engine....


Tearing everything apart went pretty smoothly....until I stripped a plenum bolt later on in the day....

lizardkng

In one day, from about 10:30am till 4:30pm, we got this far...and thats where we left it for the day.

Monday morning, we start again!

12SecondTA

it sat for 7 years?


man woah...

good luck, fixing engines are always fun...

lizardkng

Yep, 7 years.

It died (read: I killed it) early summer 1999.

88TPI406GTA

Good luck on it...

Why did it take 7 years to work on it?

Or a better question is: what finally motivated you to get it done?

I have my own car projects that I have lost interest in and am just curious...

JB22

It sit outside for 7 years or in that barb that was pictured behind?

Floorboards and stuff still solid?

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

i would have just pulled the whole motor/trans and worked on it all on an engine stand or workbench instead, probably go a lot faster in tearing it down too. takes me under 6 hours to pull a whole motor/trans out, with stopping for breakfast and lunch too.

j dezzy

iTrader: (12)

Good luck with the project. Looks like you've got a great car to start with.

lizardkng

It sat outside, with a cover over it, unfortunately we didnt have a nice big barn to store it in (which is not nearly as bad as my mothers 64 1/2 mustang....she owns the 60th mustang ever built, and it also sits outside, with a cover on it)

Motivation? Well, my roommate needs a car....and we agreed that we would split the costs of getting it back on the road, 50/50.

It took us about 7 hours to pull it out, without the transmission.

Everything looks fine underneath, no rust, floorboards in good shape, etc.

My only concern is the mice that got in it while it sat...so it smells like mice....no evidence of any real damage though. I just hope they didnt get into the wiring...

Current status: Motor out. Today Ill be getting some of the parts Ill need, and ordering the 350.

http://www.chevy-gas-diesel-engines....ngine-246.html

88TPI406GTA

I can understand that...I just hope that you will be driving the car and not your roomate...especially with a new engine.

BTW...also make sure that the reman engine does come with the 083 heads and that it isn't a reman TBI engine...make sure you verify the head #'s when you pick it up...

Good luck.

lizardkng

Whats the 083 casting number specify?

ljnowell

I dont recognize any of those casting numbers as TPI heads, in fact, the 193 is a swirl port, isnt it?

88TPI406GTA

AFAIK, the 083 head is the 350 TPI head.

The 193 head is indeed a TBI swirl port head...

JB22

14101083 - head casting
683 - Block casting

chesterfield

thats kind of confusing. the second line below the pic says head casting 083.

lizardkng

Ok gents, help the noob.

Im not the mechanic here, I own the car, and Im paying for it, and fetching wrenches for my uncle.

Please help me to choose the proper engine? Ive heard that TBI and TPI long blocks are the same?

This link goes to a list of 350s (best prices I can find):

http://www.chevy-gas-diesel-engines....0-engines.html

Which catalog number is the one I need?

(remember, Im swapping a 305 to a 350)

Update: Yesterday I bought an alternator, starter, battery, injectors, hoses, serpentine belt, plugs, wires, cap and rotor...$750, jeez!

Thanks for your help!

rocluvr0013

Its described as Roller cam, 2-bolt main, TPI, block #148,548,638, cast iron head # 810,191,193

however below that it says Block Casting 148,548,638 Head Casting 083

interesting... Sounds like you should give them a call and tell them exactly what you need (i.e. 083 heads) with a 5.7 shortblock. Looks like theyr website is a little confusing. Hope you get it squared away.

lizardkng

I called them this afternoon, said they had one ready to go, but it had 217 heads....they said to get the 083 heads, he would have to check with the guy over the cores, and see if they had any ready to go into the shop, and would call me back...that was 8 hours ago.

Ill be giving them a call tomorrow I suppose.

ljnowell

dont settle for anything other than the right heads. otherwise you are getting the shaft.

JB22

I believe the 217 heads are the same thing as the 083's

They were on the GM Performance Crate 350's back in the day.
----------
Fast355
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DFW, Texas
Posts: 1,718

IIRC, the 217s are what GM used on the 300 HP 350 crate engine of the 90s. They are virtually identical to the 083s.

lizardkng

Wow, really?

If I could get a definitive answer to this, I can get this thing shipped tomorrow

I looked up the "083" casting number, which I assume is actually "14101083", on www.mortec.com (great website for this kinda thing) and found this information listed:

Now, the guy said they had an engine ready to go out with "217s" on it, so I tried to look up "217s" on mortec.com...this is what I found:

Eh? So whats the best bet? They DO seem very similar to me based on the above information, IF its correct information.

Do I need to hold out for the "083s" or go ahead and get the "217s"?

Remember, Im not the mechanic...

Visit www.mortec.com for all your block casting and cylinder head casting number needs!

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Mortec doesn't always get it right. The 217's will have 90 degree intake mount bolts.

Your base will bolt up directly to the 083's, but the center two bolt holes on each side will have to be modified for the base to fit the 217's.

lizardkng

OK, so 083's it is.

I can hold out 4-5 days I suppose....

Thank you!

lizardkng

Update:

Ordered the engine yesterday, the place I ordered it from has an 80 engine order going out to Sweden, so there will be a slight delay in them processing my order.

My engine is expected to ship next Wednesday.

five7kid: Ty very much for your info, i was able to "talk shop" with the guy whos worked in the head shop for 20 years, because of the info you gave me about the bolts. He agreed that the 217s and 083s were virtually identical, except "youll have to wallow out the bolt hole a bit to get the 217s to fit." That wasnt acceptable to me, so I insisted on the 083s. Thanks very much.

lizardkng

I cant beleive its been so long....

We took the summer off

The engine is in, and everything is back on, except the intake plenum.

We need to drain the turpentine (er, fuel) from the gase tank...problem is, we cant get the trunk open in order to access the fuel pump...

We had intended to just hotwire the fuel pump to get it to pump the painthinner (er...I mean fuel) out...but that was not to be...hotwiring the fuel pump wouldnt work...so we figure its just all gummed up, and would just replace it...

Problem is, we cant get the trunk open...(I have another thread where Ive already learned how to do it).

So, now we need to just put the upper intake and fresh fuel....then track down any remaining wiring issues

Tomorrow we might just try to start it...if all goes well

Diggler86

unless someone cut a pump access door , you cant get access from the trunk.

tarakian

You mean like this? Little bigger than required but I didn't know exactly where the pump was. Just don't blow yourself up when you are doing it.



Here is my pictures from me replacing mine.
http://thewilsonclan.org:8183/thumbnails.php?album=351

ryan77

I'd just drop the tank out the bottom...the right way

ringo234

I pulled a tank out of 3rd gen at the junk yard and you can drain the tank without removing it. There is a plastic yellow plug you can remove and drain the tank. Although you're probably going to want to replace the fuel pump after sitting for so long anyway.

lizardkng

Well, we dropped the tank out the bottom...(coulda SWORN I saw an access panel in some pics a while back...oh well, we needed to get the trunk open anyway)

So we dropped the tank out...we didnt see any type of yellow plug while doing it though...but yes, we needed to replace the fuel pump anyway...so we had to drop it either way...man what a job...we had one helluva time getting it out...had to drop one side of the axle, seems the fuel filler tube just WOULDNT wiggle through the hole...

So the tank is out, and emptied...its got some rust in it, and the fuel pump assembly will have to be completely cleaned off of rust buildup (the metal tubes and such), and the pump itself will have to be replaced.

Next stages...put the new fuel pump back into the tank, and replace the tank into the car. Then replace the rear sway bar hardware...then its time for a new hatch motor solenoid...and replace the throttle body and such...at that point, Id expect we might try to start it.

We did hook it up to his little handheld computer thingy, and found we could talk to the computer and the computer talk back to us...so, thats a good sign...

Next update expected sometime after next Thursday...

(7 days on and 7 off at work kinda hampers the garage time)

Thanks everyone for the assistance thus far!

Big454blockchevy

I just came across this thread today. It's been great following your progress. It seems like I entered a time machine and fast forwarded to your most recent activity. I love encountering posts like these.

84L69TA

Damn, thats a long time. Ive pulled many in an hour. I guess Ive had too many of these cars.

ringo234

Before you put the tank back in check the fuel level sending unit with an ohmeter. It should read 90 ohms full and 0 ohms empty. If not your gas gas gauge isn't going to read correctly.

lizardkng

Thanks Ill do that!

lizardkng

Ok!

The engine is in and everything is all reconnected...yesterday we turned the key and......

NOTHING HAPPENED!

I started a thread over in electronics that describes the problem, if anyone would like to jump in...we would be much appreciative!

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...r-starter.html

lizardkng

Alrighty...time for an update...

As I said, everything is back in and we finally got the VATS thing worked out...turns out, VATS was in fact disabled on the PROM I ordered, just that the pesky pass-key module was still in place, and fully functional...turns out we needed to locate and bypass the starter solenoid relay...so that the starter could get some juice...

We bypassed it, and vrooooom, the car started right up without a hitch...no error codes so far! Sounds nice and strong...

Now...there are a few small issues still keeping it off the road...but Ill admit that I did take it for a spin already...

The front end feels like its about to fall right out of it...the steering wheel needs to be turned 90 degrees left, so that its straight while the wheels are straight...it was also shaking over about 40mph or so..

Uncle thinks that either the brakes (more on that later) could have been causing the shake, or possibly that because it sat so long, that the tires might have a flat spot...can you get low profile tires trued? These tires were brand new when I parked it, and have virtually no miles on them...no signs of dry rot...cost me $600! I hope I dont have to replace the tires because of a flat spot!

It also didnt "feel" like I thought it would...it seems like the throttle is...hmmm...sluggish? Give it half gas and it feels like it wants to go...but just...doesnt...like its tripping over its own nose...then it will pick up and go after a second or two. Dunno whats up with that, but once we get the brakes sorted out, Ill take uncle for a spin with his little computer thingy connected and see what it says, and what he thinks.

Several of the idiot lights arent working (only the brake light works), the speedometer doesnt move, and for some reason the tach is backwards...its pegged beyond the range of the gauge, and goes backwards when you start the car, lol. It even stays pegged when the car is off!?!?

We need to track down why the brake lights arent working...

Oh, and while Im on the brakes...eh...after my first test drive...I drove it about 2 miles total...when I brought it back in...my uncle and I were gonna take it for a second spin...when.....the drivers side brake caliper LOCKED UP!

OH NO!

You should have seen us trying to maneuver it into the shop with 1 wheel locked up, lol.

Anyway...

I also have to replace the headlight switch...I already bought one, but Im not looking forward to changing it out...

I checked at O'Reilly's and seems they have brake calipers for our cars for $9.99! No Really! $9.99! I had them triple check!

They also turn rotors for $9 each...

So, I figure Ill pick up 2 new calipers, new pads, and get the rotors turned...whole new set of front brakes for roughly $50!

Get the brakes done, put in the headlight switch, look into the brake lights, finish tightening up the steering column (oops), put tags on it and drive it home!

Next update, probably sometime next weekend...

ringo234

Replace the rubber brake hoses while you're at it. The rubber can get soft and collapse and not let the fluid return to the master cylinder, which is probably why it locked up.

lizardkng

Thanks...also I noted (and forgot to mention) that when I press the brake pedal, I can hear a loud hissing sound coming from under the dash on the drivers side.

We had (initially) forgotten to reconnect the brake booster to vacuum...so the pedal was incredibly stiff...took both feet and me lifting my behind off the seat to get it stopped...we realized what we did, and reconnected it...thats when the hissing under the dash started.

Im hoping I wont have to replace the brake booster? (or any other brake components)

Reminder: The car sat for 7+ years, but is in remarkably good shape, considering...

stroker_SS

Ever find out why it was running so sluggish?

Nice car, hope all goes well.

lizardkng

No not yet.

I can only work on it every other week, because of my work schedule.

I havent touched it since last Wednesday, Ill start back on it probably Friday.

Maybe Ill remember to take my camera, and get some pics...

Its not all cleaned up yet, though the engine is back in...and the inside has been kinda cleaned...just vacuumed really...we'll save the real cleaning for when its finished, and running right...with no more shop time ahead of us

stroker_SS

Well this is just a thought of mine but it could be sluggish because the 305 computer may not be tuned to feed the 350's fuel needs.

lizardkng

I have the most wonderful family. Last night I was surprised by my old z28 burning the rubber off in front of the house. Apparently my brother in law and my son have been working nights and weekends for TWO WEEKS to get this thing cleaned up and back road worthy. It was a wonderful surprise and I totally didnt expect it. My wife looks at me and says "beat that"...knowing theres no way I could. (her birthday is two days after mine)

lizardkng

Talk about resurrecting an old thread....

The running rough was apparently a vacuum line we'd missed. It needs a radiator now, it cracked on the way from the shop to the house...havent got to mess with it very much because of work and now Ive been sick for 2 days...but I cant wait to tinker with this

Its gonna need tires, and all the vents need a complete cleaning all the way through, because of mice nests. (any suggestions how to do this easily?)

I need a headlight switch, (I seem to have lost the one I bought) and a brake light switch...my brother in law says its the switch next to the main switch....no clue what he means as I havent stuck my head under there yet. The third brake light stays on after you let off the pedal, you have to pump the pedal to get it to go off....aside from all that, it just needs tags and insurance.

Cant wait...and perfect weather coming too....

brando54009

all minor stuff. sounds like your gonna have a good time

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

What a great surprise! Looks like it should clean up nicely with a coat of wax, and repainting some of the black trim... Glad to see it all back together and running after all these years... so 13 years later?

1gary

Interesting user name.When I first saw it I thought I would find you from Lockport,NY. We used to rent a sound and light system to a Doors clone band with that name and the bass player lives in Lockport. They toured through out Canada.