gimpeh

I couldnt find an alternative section for this ( maybe warrenting this thread as a sticky?)

Anyways, i wanted to create a thread about the plausible use of alternative fuels, for instance bio ethanol

While im probably alone on this, I want to make a slight difference to the planet then what my parents generation did.. They had alot of revolutions in their time, but the foremost factor that we have to live with is them burning dirty fossil fuels..

What im proposing is running on ethanol. Their is no downside to it, in both canada and the US, albeit canada is leaning more towards green then US, with the exception of california.

Anyways, Im rebuilding my camaro and putting either a 350 TPI , L31 or 400 SB in my camaro, but with one difference.. I want to run it on E85.

I found a site on the net that completely describes making ethanol. Upon reviewing the site, i purchased the plans to make the still.

I have to build it, but I think that the performance of our cars ( or any v8, for that matter) would go through the roof.. Thats the end result that we are looking for is performance.. right?

Anyways... as soon as i get the motor done and everything, ill run it on ethanol.

The site is http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/

Ill keep you posted on firstly my rebuild of my 83 berlinetta, and secondly the performace benchmarks i attain while running on E85

cheers

P.s .. any contributions to this would be awesome

AlkyIROC

Got a huge supply of corn to produce your own ethanol? If not, you're not going to be saving a lot of money.

Another choice is to convert it to propane. Don't do the dual fuel conversion. Just straight propane. Build the engine to about 12:1 compression.

My car runs on 100% methanol but that's not a daily driver friendly fuel.

Grim Reaper

Ethanol is the biggest farce going. It takes the equivalent of 8 gallons of gasoline to produce 10 gallons of ethanol which is only 80% of the thermal efficiency of gasoline.

This is based on a number of studies which calculated the amount of "inputs" of fuel. It takes fuel to power the tractors, to power the irrigation pumps, to harvest the corn, to distill the alchohol and lastly to transport it. And yes, you MUST transport ethanol in special tankers because it cannot be sent down a pipeline because it is too corrosive.

If people think they are saving the environment, they are being fooled. All ethanol is, is just a "conveyor" of energy - similar to burning coal to produce electricity, and then thinking you are not polluting becuase you are using electricity to heat your home (but forgetting about the coal to produce the electricity in the first place).

If you want to save the environment, convert to propane or natural gas.

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

with Ethanol, what happens when crops have a bad year?
what do you use the remaining crops for, food or fuel?
true, you can make ethanol from other non food crops, but still its not really a viable long term fuel.

if you really want to make a difference, Hydrogen would be the way to go.
it burns cleaner than gasoline, propane, natural gas or any other fuel.
it can be produced using solar power or a wind turbine.

redliterunner

If you really want to make a difference, encourage these guys not to remove their catalytic converters for an extra horse or two that they probably aren't getting anyway.

Pushing ethanol on this bunch, though it might be right for you, probably won't be very satisfying.

Best of luck, though.

Simply-305

chesterfield

"grain alcohol (ethanol) is a renewable fuel, and also, it is pretty much pollution free, since the by-products of combustion are only water and CO2"

CO2, that's greenhouse gas #1. That's the latest Chicken Little global warming villian.The inconvenient truth is that Al Gore and his ilk don't want to give up their polluting ways like chit chatting on the internet anymore than the rest of us. If you want to make a slight difference, quit blaming your parents for your own behavior. You can start right now. Quit driving cars, watching TV, surfing the internet, eating food that's been delivered by truck to your local supermarket where it refridgerated for you safety. Start sleeping in a cave with a pack of dogs to keep you warm and don't shower with hot water. Do all these things and you can make a slight difference and your children won't complain about you burning dirty fossil fuels.

Hey, I'm all for improving the way we do things here on Earth, but don't be giving me this holier-than-thou-self-righteous environmental attitude until you've become the solution and not the probem. If all the wannabe enviromentalists would cease their frivolous computer use here on the web, it would do alot more for the planet than putting a catalytic converter on a handful of hotrods. But they just can't stop themselves.

redliterunner

Chesterfield, Darn if you dont sound just like Early Cuyler. You from Georgia?

chesterfield

No.

Grim Reaper

Good points. And you forgot all the pollution created by the tractors to plow & harvest the grain, the pumps to irrigate, the CO2 generated when they heat the mash to distill the ethanol & all the pollution created by the trucks to haul the corn to the distiller & to haul the ethanol (as ethanol is highly corrosive).

Probably the biggest thing we could do, would be for all of us to stop driving our old 3rd Gens and driving more fuel efficient cars - for our daily drivers at least.

And, there is a group of scientists that say that "global warming" is nothing new. That the earth has gone through a number of "cooling periods & heating periods" long before man ever entered the scene. The most recent being about 10,000 years ago.

I don't think Cavemen had many cars at that time, so I'll be damn on how they caused global warming/cooling at that time.

nelapse

iTrader: (17)

Hyrdrogen would be a great way to go. I have been doing research and infact there are a plethra of cars that run on 100% hydrogen!

Why aren't they on the market? Because engineers found one minor problem. When they get into a collision there is a massive explosion.

Guess back to the drawing board.

Grim Reaper

Actually, with hydrogen fuel cells, that problem is averted.

But, the real problem is; the only source of hydrogen is electrolosis and that requires electricity. Thus hydrogen is not an actual fuel source, but simply a conveyor of energy similar to charging up a battery...and you still need to make the electricity in the first place.

nelapse

iTrader: (17)

Well there is no perfect solution. The ethanol/ hydrogen deal is kinda like an electric supercharger. It takes too much and gives too little.

But then again, it takes money to make money. You can always use electricity to make something that will make things more efficient in the long run. Good example is hoover dam. Took a billion dollars, but it eventually paid for itself. You will always have to resort to fossil fuels to make the hippie-fuels. The goal is to use less or what we will never get back and more of what we can create. Perhaps short term it will be hairy, but eventually it may produce astonishing results in the long run.

I rather plant a tree than use emissions. At least it helps me sleep at night

ssxmac

iTrader: (1)

I plan on using E85 in my next engine (turbo). Although to be honest, it's more because you should be able to run higher boost w/o forking over high dough for race fuel.

nelapse

iTrader: (17)

That is what they said about ribbed condoms but that turned out to be a false statement.

Just becareful, last thing you need is to have insane boost and some serious detonation.

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

you also forget about cows, they fart, which is methane gas, it does burn, if you can trap it,....

on hydrogen, there is a company that has gotten around the massive explosion part.
they have also gotten around the generation part, with their setup, you make your own hydrogen in your back yard, with solar power.

have you read what the emissions are that a tree puts out?
i read there is a small little bush which grows wild out in California, of which 30of these bushes produce more hydrocarbons in a year than an average 1990 model chevy truck with a 350 puts out over the same year in 30,000 mile of driving.

nelapse

iTrader: (17)

Nothing the normal wildfire can't take care of.

tmoulin

If tractors make enough ethanol, or bio diesel, they will finally run on these fuels and pollute less ?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I ran E85 in the '57 all last season. Probably no connection, but I managed my first track season championship and was a semifinalist at the NHRA regional Summit ET race. Carb tuning was all I did to run it. More compression would get more power out of the combo, but that wasn't my purpose.

Back in the mid-80's, the University of Nebraska was running an energy-independent farm. They grew a grass-like crop that produced the sugar in the stalk, and designed a machine to squeeze the juice out of the stalks in the field. The distillation was accomplished using methane collected from the hog operation waste. The farm machinery ran off of the ethanol. Of course they used solar energy to supplement the other sources.

The U.S. federal government pays farmers year-in and year-out not to grow anything on their land. Put that land into production for sugar, you'd have plenty of ethanol.

The technology is there. The infrastructure and business case aren't there.

Yet.

OddyseusDSM

Diesel 350 running on veggie oil? Economical, green and possibly good power. I think im gonna look into this.

Firebat

iTrader: (7)

look into the papp engine.

Naga1337

Ironically, I was thinking about this too, and I was going to ask for anyone who liked to conduct an experiment, but I thought I would get flamed, so while on the subject, I guess I'll ask it now.

I'm sure we're all familiar with the concept of biodiesel. Diesel made from vegetable oil. Well it can be produced for between $.50 and $1 per gallon. I am planning on getting a cheap diesel vehicle this summer and setting up a processor for it and making my own fuel!

Now... I have heard from a RELIABLE source ( http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#gas ) that you can mix a small percentage of biodiesel into normal gasoline and the engine will run fine, but with biodiesel's lubricating properties, it will be good for the engine. When I start making biodiesel I think I'll try this and see what happens, so I'm just putting the idea out there to see if anyone else wants to try.

And sorry for hijacking the topic.

OddyseusDSM

bio-diesel is corrosive (lack of a better term, it'll wear out the seals in a season), E85 vehicals have precautions for this also, I wouldn't bother if it wasnt Flex equipped or diesel to begin with

wicked-irocz

human bodys work just like engines. We take oxygen and fuel in and then breath out C02 and other waste products.

Ethanol produces more BTUs for each BTU it takes to make it than gas.
E85 is a great performance fuel, very clean, very high octane, contains oxygen in the fuel.
E85 would pay off if you were running high compression (13:1+) or boost. You can recover some and sometimes all of the gas mileage lost due to E85 having 30% less BTU content than gasoline running high compression/boost.

It is worthless as said before to make ethanol at home, just go buy it. Biodiesel is a different story, you can use the at home kits and vegtable oil to make it and then its quite cheap, just a large introductory investment.

JoBy

If you have a gasoline vehicle then E85 is the easiest alternative fuel to convert to. You need about 30% more fuel volume for the same amout of air. If you have a carb you just change the jetting.

If you have fuel injection you can raise fuel pressure or install larger injectors or change the tuning in the chip.

Mileage will decrease by 10% to 20%. It depends on the gas and E85 prises if it is cheaper or not.

The engine will make about the same power.

If you have a turbo or supercharger the engine can take a lot more boost with E85 and with higher boost you will make more power.