Formula_420

ok before any one goes and starts saying just do a bbc or ltx or lsx swap. i am doing this for fuel economy purpose. so keep your opinion and please provide actual help.

ok i wanna put the 6.5 litre diesel in to my 1989 formula ws6 firebird. my car came stock with L03 tbi 305, with 700r4 tranny.

i know that i will obviously need to beef up front suspension with stronger coils and other suspension componets
and i know the 4l80e tranny that is found bolted to the 6.5 diesels at least from waht i read is just an electrical th400 tranny and i know where to get the approprate crossmember for the tranny.
but my real question is will it all just drop in and bolt up? and what kind of electrical work would i be facing? and would a 2500 rear end fit in my bird, i am thinking it would b way to wide but doent hurt to ask

and if u can provide any help in any way please do

Klortho

Fuel economy purposes??

do an LSx swap......

do a search, there was a thread a while back on it

here's the thread

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...47-diesel.html

primerk5

I have a 6.5 in my 95 3500. It gets around 19-20 mpg. I'm not saying that it won't do a bit better in a car but I don't think that it will out do what my 305 tpi gets which is a minimum of 22 mpg on 87 octane at 1.45 a gallon. (Diesel being around 2.25 per gallon in my area.

Plus why a 6.5? The have some issues that you may not be aware of. Heads typically get cracks in them between the valves and head gaskets tend to blow out when you try to put more boost to them. Also there is a thing called the PMD/FSD. It controls the injection pump. Its around 350 dollar item that regularly gose out. Also Injection pumps run around 800 bucks for a re-man one. I really don't think in the long run that this would be a good thing to do as parts for a SBC are much cheaper.

and unless you get an Mil Spec 6.5 I don't think that the turbo of a truck 6.5 will fit in your car in its stock location. If I'm right I think it would be sitting where you passenger side wheelwell is and slightly through your hood.

I guess if money is no object then you could go for this I just don't think its much of an idea at this point.

Good luck.

AlkyIROC

A 4L80E isn't electric, it's electronic. ie: It needs a computer to operate. A 3/4 ton differential into a third gen, no and it's not just because of the width. The entire suspension is different preventing the use of the third gen's torque arm.

72vega

iTrader: (9)

http://www.thedieselpage.com/readers/vet.htm

some interesting reading for those who wish to pursue a diesel swap. another alternative would be to find an Oldsmobile 350 diesel.. why not??

AlkyIROC

The Olds diesel is probably the worst diesel GM ever came up with.

1989IROC-Z5.7L

iTrader: (2)

It would be easier to put a import (Honda, Toyota) engine in it.

Doc_G

iTrader: (1)

Well I have nothing to add help wise, but I'm interested in seeing where this goes (if anywhere)

subscribed

jsmith929

You would be better off finding a V-6 diesel or even a 4 cylinder one that's turbo charged ,I know Cummins makes some small v-6 diesel and 4 cylinders also kubota,just take a look in some of the diesel salvage yards and you can find some interesting engines .Old late 80's early 90's panel trucks used to have cummins 4bt with turbo 400 trans in them so just take a look .
Joe

AlkyIROC

A 4 cylinder Perkins has been put into cars before.

Formula_420

yea. i read up on the 6.5s i did learn that the heads were prone to cracking, but i could replace the heads. I am probably going to lean towards the 4bt casue it is lighter, can be tweaked to push sum impressive numbers and also is a cummins which is buildt like a rock but now the 4bt swap research begings. so if u know any thign about the 4bt let me kno

jsmith929

I would look into the height of the engine you may run into clearance issues .

primerk5

people are nuts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAWbD...eature=related

holy cow. search deisels in cars on youtube.

I know there was a buick gran national with a duramax.

and an oldsmobile with a cummins but I can't find them.

AlkyIROC

Some diesels will fit better than others but none will be an easy swap. If the oil pump pickup is in the front of the pan, it will never fit without cutting up the k-member.

Air_Adam

Good luck even with a rear-sump pan... most big truck diesels have a pan capacity of 12-15L... smallest I remember off hand was around 8 or 9L. Thats a BIG pan.

And where do you plan to put the two big batteries req'd to start that engine? Almost all truck diesels need two batteries just to start.

72vega

iTrader: (9)

if you look into it, really it wasnt bad other than the ultra crappy diesel fuel (water contaminated) of the day back in the 70s.. they have been built into really reliable engines

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

My '95 2500HD 6.5l TD holds 7 quarts plus filter (same filter as SBC).

It just turned over 300,000 miles without the intake, heads, or turbo being off (can't say as much for the injector pump).

Turned over that 300k right after the deer committed suicide in front of me. . .

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

With diesel costing more than regular gas, the question is WHY DO IT?

The car isn't going to get such a higher MPG to make it worth while. Its gonna cost more to drive than standard gas.

Yes, it may live 500,000 miles, but so what? With all the higher fuel cost EVERY DAY, it better last longer.....to ever get close to seeing an upside to doing it.

No....I don't see ANY reason to ever do that. MAYBE if your doing biodiesel & making it yourself, but that's it.

AlkyIROC

The car will be completely rusted out by then.

Formula_420

well um tru. and i have read up on the astronimical weights of the 6.5 litre and the 4bt, which actually weighs more then the 6.5 litre diesel. soooo well damn..... well who wants to buy a firebird?

885speed

iTrader: (1)

Why sell? just tune up your LO3, in good working condition you can get great gas mileage just as long as your foot isnt too heavy...
and as far as lasting for hundreds of thousands of miles... as long as the bottom end is taken care of properly then those little engines can run past 500K
I'm sure i can get mine to do it too... if i used better oil in it
...and had a way to track how many miles i really have

88iroc52387

iTrader: (2)

Just my opnion but i'm betting it would be cheaper and a whole lot easier to keep your forumla as is... drive it on the weekends and pick up a little golf or jetta tdi for the fuel economy....??? I've been thinking about doing that for the last year. I did my first year of college expirmenting with biodiesel production its pretty doable. My g/f sister owns a bar i could probably drive half the year for free just by using her scrap oil from the friers.. Sorry i couldn't help with the swap plans i'm just trying to show ya another idea... thats probably going to be less headache and cheaper..

jsmith929

I know cummins little 3.3 v-6 with decent gearing would probably get you into the low 30 on fuel mileage .It's turbocharged you can tweak the mechanical pump for some more power but if it's fuel mileage you want then something like this would be good .I'm sure there is other engine options,I'm just going by what another guy did on another forum I'm on .

BLUETA

I too think it is more trouble than it is worth. I improved my 18 mpg at 60-65 mph on a 305 TPI, to 24 mpg at 80 mph with a 400 TPI. Chose the parts carefully and build for torque. Another choice might be a GM (Buick) 3.8 V6. My friend at work as a Monte 3.8 with the mileage computer. He gets over 30 mpg highway, but did not reset the computer for a year and got 25 mpg for a year of driving. You could play with that and probably get a bit more mileage out of it. Good Luck, build what you want, but do lots of research.

bart91406

Well you said you did not want opinions so I will save you that. I will say that if you have to ask if it will bolt up, you are extremely out of your league on this motor swap, good luck though, I would love to see the finished product!

1bdbrd

iTrader: (1)

Another thing to consider is that the LS1 can get GREAT gas mileage stock and even better if tuned correctly with the proper mild bolt ons. People have reported near 30mpg on the highway with the 6 speed. A friend of mine got 22 mixed in his 99 z28 with a heads and cam 6 liter swap on a tune that was worse than stock. It had very crappy exhaust, and a 6 speed with stock 3.42 gears.

quickL98

iTrader: (2)

my stock 98 ta A4 averages about 24mpg going from tampa to miami cruising between 75 and 100+ mph. and in stupid congested stop and go traffic about 18 avg

quickL98

iTrader: (2)

although a real cool diesel swap in dream land would be getting an f-body swapping as many sheetmetal panels for fiber glass ones(front clip,doors), glass for lexan and other weight savings measures and swap in like a merc-benz new blue-tec diesel .... super quiet, car like acceleration and MB longevity or a audi/vw 2.0T gas motor. i had a jetta gls with 1.8t that was a blast to drive and got about 30mpg on the hwy.

boy that would be different, and on a side note those audi 2.0t's have made up to 1200hp

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

buddy of mine has an '04 gto with all the bolt on's along with NICE ported heads. it gets 30mpg hwy, and put down 419rwhp. stock cam still.

quickL98

iTrader: (2)

i rode to panama city on my busa and avg. 48.7 mpg
i know its not relavent, but it does point how you can have both performance (1.3 L @ 170+ hp) and efficiency . i mean after isnt improved power the byproduct of improved efficiency

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

And the 'busa weighs what? Under 900lbs? Get a 3rd gen to weigh even DOUBLE THAT and I'll be duly impressed with the mpg.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I've been at this forum for 8 years and this is the dumbest engine swap idea I have seen yet.

FYRCHKN

Mine also came stock with the LO3/700R4 combo. I swapped in a T-5 and steadily got 27-28 MPG mixed driving. I even busted the 30 MPG mark a few times on long trips cruising 80 with the A/C on. That was when it still had the 2.73 rear. I swapped in the 3.27 rear and it dropped my mileage down to 23-24.

....I forgot to mention that I have over 190K miles on a stock LO3 that has never been apart. I use it for my 80 mile round trip daily commute since my 2500HD only gets 11 MPG.

Do a tune up and ease up on the foot feed and you'll be surprised with what kind of mileage you can get out of it. After all, economy is what the LO3 was built for.

iansane

iTrader: (1)

I stopped reading this thread about halfway through.

That being said, 6.5 isn't what I would call an amazing engine. It does its job fine but far from awesome.

Now a duramax thirdgen would simply be awesome. Not for mpg, or torque, or hp, or any other reason than it'd just be cool to do. The duramax with the 6 speed allison, a center console the size of a coffee table and you'd have a cool rig.

quickL98

iTrader: (2)

c'mon....like dats any different in terms of trying to fit 10lbs of **** in a 5lb bag.

however in my wasted years of owning f-bodys, i did once own an 88 L03 formula which hardly guzzled gas. look a 16 second car is a 16 second right why not save the cash for crazy (and costly) engine swaps and bye a used corolla or something, that way you can build the a wild sick car and drive the sensible throw away car as a daily to get all dinged up or plowed into?

that is a very tiny .02

any how back to theoretical topic at hand i still vote for a M/B blur tec based on packaging ease.
----------
BUY i meant buy..... sorry

iansane

iTrader: (1)

Well, the difference is the motor. Ya know, the **** you're trying to stuff.

Like I said, I wouldn't do it for all out mileage, power, torque or for any other reason that it'd be cool to see something so different that still made decent power/got okay mileage.

quickL98

iTrader: (2)

yes your right it would definitely be different and unusual, the difference i was speaking about was dimensions in regard to overall size comparision of a 6.5 to a 6.6, man you guys get testy ....
< that was funny