Atilla the Fun

Since Hawks is rumored to be working on 1.875" LSx headers for our cars, there's no longer any point in me doing it. So I have a third gen that's about to have an empty engine bay, and I have a 4.3, and I have full sets of serpentine front accessories with brackets from all 3 of these: (1) a '91 Camaro LO3, (2) an '89 S-10 4.3 2WD, and (3) a '96 Astro 4.3 AWD.
Plus I have a set of Moroso solid motor mounts for Chevy V8 into third gens.
My '84 T/A has a 700R-4 in it, in the stock location, so it seems I'm all set to show how this fits.

stroker_SS

This should be pretty cool, you know were gonna need pics and vids for our viewing pleasure!

Gonna make any mods to the 4.3?

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Dont expect too much. Its essentially a V6 in SBC trim. Fuel lines are LTx style, pump needs LSx pressure. Wiring is closer to LSx, unless you convert it to something similar to OEM 3rd gen control. CPI intake should fit under the 3rd gen hood pretty good. Too bad those poppet injectors are so crappy. CPI could have been quite something

Atilla the Fun

No, this '96 4.3 is all apart. I'm actually redoing it for my '86 S-10. But there's no reason I can't reattach the crank, oilpan, front cover, damper and heads enough to show which accessories do or don't hit or miss the mounts, K-frame / crossmember, (whichever you call it) and so on.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

I cant remember, was 96 still that wierd alum intake version? Early versions of the oil balance shaft block, or was the plastic CPI intake with actual vortec heads introduced yet?

Atilla the Fun

I pulled mine from a '96 Astro AWD, mine has the good Vortec heads. ( That's why I pulled it )
The intake, irrelevant to this test-fit, uses an aluminum lower half and a thermoplastic upper half.
I got the computer, the damaged harness, and all the related electronic stuff. Complete except for the a/c compressor, the alternator, and the starter.
I also have both the Astro and the S-10 exhaust manifolds, so we can see how those fit.
Pics are probably a week off, but I'll be taking plenty of them.

ericjon262

missing those 2 cylinders will leave more room for the turbos!

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

My son's '96 S10 has the plastic intake.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

The plastic intake versions are very similar to LSx control system

Atilla the Fun

Which still has nothing to do with a thread intended to show the physical fitment. It's flat out illegal to do this swap, even if you live in a town where you can get away with it. but there are classes in different types of racing where this swap might have advantages, and since it keeps coming up, I may as well take advantage of my chance to show the answers, and hopefully we'll never again have to suffer through any more questions about how to get it in the car.

Fallen2603

Hey, saw this and got interested. Went to ThirdGen Fest yesterday, and, got tired of looking at ALL the V8's. Decided to go a different direction, then saw this thread. Already done some looking. This should help. I almost sensed some form of "divine intervention" (LOL!) when I read this part of the below article:

"Even more interesting, Allstar Performance sells brackets to swap a 90-degree V-6 where a V-8 used to be, and the resulting engine setback could make this thing killer for handling applications in, say, a third-gen F-body."

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ild/index.html

Oh, and ericjon262, turbos are a nice idea, but...how about this:

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...all/index.html

Planning on going the centrifugally supercharged route, myself. Procharger, though.

Atilla the Fun

You don't need those Allstar brackets, as I'll show. In fact, they cause problems. I have some similar bits from Advance Adapters, and I will be showing the issue.
The best option may be the one I'm in no position to try, but it's to use the other Advance kit for putting a 4.3 on 2.8 frame pads in an S-10.
I'll explain it better once I show why the V8-pad-brackets are a problem.
I've done this all once before, but didn't get pics back then.

Fallen2603

What problems do the Allstar brackets cause, Atilla?
With the brackets you're talking about, will it mount the V6 further back closer to the firewall so I can still keep my T5 in the stock location?
Nice to know someone has done this before, so I can learn from those mistakes instead of going through them myself.
Thanks Atilla!

Atilla the Fun

I haven't actually used the Allstar brackets, but I am familiar with them, they do the same job as the AA brackets. The trans must stay in the V8 location, and then when the engine is suddenly 4.4" shorter, the accessories are all farther back, or too tall for the stock hood, or both. Give me a few more days, I will be showing how it all goes together.

Atilla the Fun

Looks like tomorrow afternoon is when I'll be starting on this.

Fallen2603

Can't wait to see. Oh, well, plenty work for me to do before I get this far... Good luck Atilla!

Atilla the Fun

Indirectly made progress today, got the Fiero out of the way.

Fallen2603

Atilla, you got any PN's for those bracket kits you were talking about? The Allstar or the Advance Adapters?

Atilla the Fun

To put a 4.3 in place of a 2.8, the AA brackets are these: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ADD-713119/

Fallen2603

Sooo...I just need these brackets and everything will line up? I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but I like to have as much intel as I can get before I dive into something. And, if I haven't already said it, thanks for all the help Atilla.

Atilla the Fun

I'm expecting to get this pic-ready this afternoon.

Drac0nic

Just a thought, are you using a car that had a 305/350 in it originally? If so you may be able to use the Astro swap brackets. Either that or all a lot of people do is move one side back 3 inches and then weld a pad for the other side and move it back 3 inches. You would need to do the opposite but in theory it should work if you have cross member clearance. They also sell a set of mounts for about $70 that have the appropriate clearances. I always wanted to do a super HP 4.3L but at the same time the problem is that the fueling of them sucks unfortunately. Without getting a rare Sy/Ty intake or modifying a Vortec/different intake you can't really get fuel to them to get them to their potential IMO. You may want to check syty.net I think some of them are getting into the low 12s with bone stock Vortec 4.3Ls and custom intake setups.

Accessory brackets, your standard SBC brackets should just bolt up. Most Astro guys just move stuff over from a 4.3L to a 350/305/whatever and it works. Since you have post 87 heads they should have every bolt hole you need, if you had 85 or earlier 90 degree V6 heads I would be concerned you may be missing a bolt if you used serpentine accessories.

Besides that why would it be more or less legal than ANY other swap? If he uses the stocker ECU and emissions gear it will probably have significantly better emissions characteristics than ANY third gen ever made because of the technological advances.

Atilla the Fun

Drac0nic, you didn't read the above posts in this thread, did you?
Anyway, I have the 4.3 sitting in the car, and I'm about to post pics right now. This first batch will show what's wrong with trying the Advance Adapters 713123 brackets.

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

'96 Astro AWD pan hangs too low.

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

That was just to show the trans crossmember and the Energy Suspension poly trans mount locating the tail end of the 700R-4.
One more pic to go in this set

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

One, this is to show how to do it with no fabrication and no welding.
Second, if you spend a week wading through the legalese wording of the EPA's Clean Air Act, which applies to all 50 states, you'll find it is federally illegal to put a pickup engine into a passenger car.
Some Monte Carlos from '85-'88 were built with 4.3s, so those versions are legal to swap, but only offer 140 HP. Retrofitting the good Vortec heads is illegal, and the Brodix heads aren't legal, either.
Third, I'm not trying to get my car running with 4.3 power. Read the rest of this post, you should get a clear idea that I'm just trying to show why certain things don't work, then what will work.

Now that you can see how the 713123s are gonna keep the accessories from bolting up, I'm going to change the mounting, to show where which accessories contact the crossmember, steering, or whatever.
From there, we'll move on to the exhaust manifolds. Or vice versa, whatever strikes my fancy.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

yah I get tired of seeing my V8 under my hood all the time, they really suck. What I don't understand is why do you want to put in an engine that requires all the expense and modification of a V8 swap but with 3/4 the displacement. The 4.3 isn't super light, and unless you're trying to stay within some type of class rules I can't see the logic in doing it. If the only goal is to be different regardless of power and cost, then put a blown 3.8 in it from a GTP or something. Just my

Fallen2603

LOL! Okay, 1MeanZ, I don't know why you feel like you have to tell me ALL the "errors of my ways". I have nothing against V8's. Hell, I got a 383 Stroker that is perfect for my Camaro about a month ago. You'd see it if you checked out my pics on my profile. I don't know why I want to try something like this. I just do. It just seems to me that all anyone does with a 3rd-Gen is swap in a V8, and that's it. I guess I just feel that there should be a little more imagination. Why settle for the "status quo" of swapping a V8 in there and calling it "perfect"? A lack of imagination and improvisation are symptoms of STAGNATION. I'm just trying to take a crack at something different. Make this car MINE. That kind of thing. Yeah, I probably don't make sense to a lot of people, but, hey, a lot of people and what they do doesn't make sense to me. "It takes all kinds to make the world go round."

Atilla the Fun

Okay, here's the next option. I didn't make the cuts or drill the holes, (neither of which qualify as either welding or fabrication) because I'm just showing you guys, not doing a permanent swap. But by flipping the Moroso golds, you can see how much it improves the situation:

Atilla the Fun

The green arrow above is pointing to one new hole I had to drill.
Below, the red lines show where you would make your cuts.

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

same deal on the other side:

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

It looks like you can completely remove the adapter and install the mounts in the V6 position

Atilla the Fun

Fallen2603

Atilla, besides the accessory drive coming in contact with the crossmember and the steering linkage, is there any other problems with mounting the 4.3L into the car with the Advance Adapters 713123? I don't see anything besides the accessories being an issue, but I'm not a mechanic and could just not see something that is a problem. Did the transmission mount up properly with the stock crossmember? Great work on the pictures, by the way.

Atilla the Fun

the below pic shows that the flip doesn't change where the pan lives:

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

I've decided I'm going to make the cuts, probably Monday, then reinstall these, probably on Tuesday. With the cuts, I should be able to get the accessory brackets in to position.
More pics will follow, just not today, or Sunday, for certain.

Atilla the Fun

I get tired of seeing endless V6/60s and SBCs, and I'm getting sick of seeing LSx swaps. I want the BBC so bad, but it's illegal. Of the legal options, I choose the LSx, which will be going in after I'm done illustrating the 4.3

Fallen2603

Oh, disregard my last. I see what you're doing now...

Fallen2603

"I get tired of seeing endless V6/60s and SBCs, and I'm getting sick of seeing LSx swaps. I want the BBC so bad, but it's illegal. Of the legal options, I choose the LSx, which will be going in after I'm done illustrating the 4.3"

AMEN.