BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

I have a 86 iroc w a 305 tpi gunna swap to a 350 carb, do i need to do, i know about carbs and all that. What all do the computers control? And I have a 700r4 Isnt that computer controlled as well? I know I also have to swap out the fuel pumps or put a regulator on it.

BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

Anyone?

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

ECM goes away. Do your homework on the wiring and you can get the gauges working. Blindly hack the wiring like 90% of carb swappers and you'll be riding blind

700R4 has an electric lock-up feature, but it can be controlled with an aftermarket vacuum switch or grab one off an old carbed 3rd gen

TPI fuel pump is a stretch because it puts out approx 43psi constantly. A regulator will be sending most of that back to the tank. Swapping to a TBI pump means a common carb regulator is sufficient to run. Completely removing the electric pump and brazing a simple tube on the tank sender will work too, if mechanical pumps are your thing

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Since you will be using a return-style regulator to drop the pressure down to a carb-friendly 4-6 psi, even a TBI pump would be sending most of the fuel back to the tank most of the time. But, it wouldn't supply sufficient volume under high power situations. The TPI pump is the superior choice, and keeping it wouldn't require dropping the tank. In fact, some aftermarket suppliers will give you a TPI pump to replace your TBI pump just so they don't have to stock two different pumps.

The ECM tells the fuel pump to stay on when the engine is running. The oil pressure switch provides a back-up to that. Without the ECM, you'll have to get oil pressure up to keep the pump running.

BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

Well long story short, the swap is done. The motor is in and runs. I do have to say thanks, to everyone who has given me help on this site. Would have been a lot harder without the people on here. Now for the good stuff. Its a 67 350 block, bored 30 over, heads had to be shaved down, crank turned and rods resized. Put in Speed Pro hypereutectic flat top pistons. Clevite 77 berrings. ARP bolts/studs. Edelbrock cam .420/.442, Edelbrock intake manifold. 64CC heads. Edelbrock 600 cfm carb (1406). New valves n rockers. I'm sure I am forgetting stuff. But it has 10.5 :1 Compression. Summit chepo shorty headers.

BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

OH i forgot here is a vid of the first start, open headers btw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PcdAtjZtY0

BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

Well now that I calmed down and am settleing with the reality of things, I am slightly dissapointed by my new motor... I expected more. I guess my next big jump would be heads? I want to gain another at least 20-40 hp. Anything else I can do, Keeping in mind this is a DD street car. I know roller rockers would add a bit of power but how much? I know I can always throw a bigger lump stick in but not sure how far that could get me without killing the daily driver part.

LS4GXP

iTrader: (2)

What exhaust is on it? What intake, edelbrock makes alot of intakes

BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

performer RPM intake, Would have gone air gap but this barely fits as is. Exhaust is shorty headers into true duals @2.5. No cats. But do have mufflers, baffled.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

You've got too much intake for the cam, and probably not enough exhaust. If those are '67 350 heads (where did you find a '67 350?), they probably aren't anything to write home about, either.

Cheapie Summit headers are 1-1/2" primaries. Too small for a 350 (unless you keep RPMs below 4000).

An RPM intake has a powerband of 1500-6500 RPMs. Your cam (need duration numbers - lift numbers tell us next to nothing) probably is idle to 4500 RPMs. You need more cam or less intake.

Factory heads are typically bass boat anchors. The TPI heads are an exception, as are Vortec ('96-'99 350 light truck).

Vortec heads require a specific intake manifold. But, they are an excellent choice for a budget street performance engine. Match the intake to the cam, get better headers, and you'll have a good-running package.

(I have no love for Edelbrock carbs, but most likely it isn't your issue.)

BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

The block is actually out of a 67 camaro, my buddy has.
Cam specs : int ext
Duration as advertised 278 288
Duration at .050 204 214
Lift @ cam .28 .295
Lift @ valve .42 .442
112 lobe sep
idle -5500

BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

Thinking of putting in a bigger cam?

BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

bumpity?

SDTransAM

iTrader: (5)

Do a bigger cam and longtube headers.

BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

Any Ideas for a cam, I love lope but this is a street car and I do rarely take it on trips to buffalo (4hr solid drive)? And I am kinda sketchy about longtubes cause from what it looks like, its a bitch to get them to fit with any kind of ground clearance..

travis401

iTrader: (1)

slightly larger cam in the 224 duration at .500 and compeletly ditch the stock exhaust. long tubes are best, but you can run some good shorties and be fine. single 2.5" would be about the smallest you wanna go as far as exhaust. i run shorties with a full 3" single exhaust from the collectors back and it flows plenty.

BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

I have Shorty headers into 2.5" true dual exhaust. no cats.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

then step up to a larger cam and make sure your heads can handle the lift of the cam you choose.

BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

So something along the lines of this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-12-660-47/ or this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-07102/

travis401

iTrader: (1)

id go with the lunati cam if your heads can take the lift.

BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

They are #186 heads with new everything. Completely stripped bare then rebuilt all to stock spec. So will they handle it? I dont know much other than they are 2.02/1.60 and 64cc

travis401

iTrader: (1)

dont think they can handle .5" of lift without having the valve guides machined down. but im not sure on that one, i know my vortec heads had to be machined to handle that much lift.

BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

Time to revive seeing as I have money. Any one have any suggestions on what I could do, Id love to go with a bigger cam, but I do not wanna put in a torque converter cause I don't want to drop the tranny or lose my ability to just drive around, Cause I do that a lot. Was set on that lunati cam but again with the torque converter.. Anyone have any better ideas? I was thinking of trying to find a used set of heads, but I dont know, id have to get lucky on those.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Let's start with the heads. According to the casting # sticky, they are:
3927186....69-70...302/350......Camel hump,64cc chambers,accessory holes

So, not '67. Not surprising. Not many '67 350's out there, most are grabbed up by the restorers. Now, for the "good ol' days", those weren't bad heads. Hopefully they've been made to handle more than "factory" lift. Do you know what valve springs they have now?

Okay, a dose of reality: Performance is about "the package". Intake, carb, cam, compression, exhaust, gears/stall - get one piece of it mismatched, and the whole will suffer. Mightily.

Off the top, the primary tubes of your headers are too small (as I've already mentioned). No matter what else you do, these headers will kill top end. Dead. You need larger primary tubes, and until you get that taken care of, you'll only be disappointed.

Intake - The RPM is a good choice, as long as you match the rest to it.

Carb - you already know what I think of Edelbrock carbs. A 650 double pumper Holley would serve you much better. But, the Edelbrock isn't the worst part of your problem.

Gears/stall - the cams you listed are pretty hairy pieces. They NEED stall! No getting around that. With stock stall, your car will always feel like a dog off the line, then suddenly catch and scream (at least, after you get the exhaust addressed). If you insist on keeping a stock stall converter, the most cam you should consider is something like XE258. Oh, I hope you have a TV cable geometry corrector bracket on the throttle arm of your carb, and you've rigged up some means of locking up the torque converter clutch.

And, I hope the exhaust valves & seats in the heads were replaced with hardened pieces for unleaded gasoline.

BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

Okay I will start with the last thing first, yes the valves and seats were replaced with hardened pieces.
Headers, what should I be looking for in primary size??
Carb- yeah I am not happy with it at all, but I want to mess with it a bit and see if I cant get anymore out of it before I rip it off.
Stall- I know stall is better for power, I get that they need it, I really dont know how a car drives with stall, was going to just get that lun 07102 and a stall to match (2200). I really really would rather deal with my car lacking some power without haveing to rev to 2k just to leave the light.
Gears- have 3.23........ doing research on what to do. Probably 3.73s.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Higher stall is grossly misunderstood. If a converter stalls at 2200 RPMs, that means the engine will rev to 2200 RPMs with the transmission in gear, transmission output prevented from turning (you know, holding the car from moving with the brakes), and the engine given enough throttle that the RPMs no longer rise. So, no, it doesn't take 2200 RPMs to get the car moving. 2200 is barely more than stock, so it won't feel that much different than a stock stall in normal driving. And, you get used to the difference very quickly.

What a higher stall converter does is allow the engine to get into its powerband immediately. So, while the car might not move as much with very, very light throttle, it'll move much more quickly with just a little more throttle.

I have a 3500 stall converter behind my LS1, and daily drive it (even in snow). It's just fine. (And, a lot of fun... )

I think you would find that the Lunati cam would like more on the order of 3000 stall behind it. I had 2500 stall with a ZZ4 cam before the LS1 went in, and 2500 was not enough for that relatively-mild cam.

You need at least 1-5/8" primary tube headers with a 350.

BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

While I am here I may as well ask, who makes a better stall B&M or tci? Or another company? And since I have a 700r4 i still need to have lock up yes?
So I should have bought those hooker 2460hkr shorties then.
as for what was done to the heads, I have to find the paper work to figure out what springs and what not, but heres my question, what all would have to be done to make those old heads fit that cam?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The beauties of the TH700 - overdrive and lock-up. Yes, you should keep lock-up. Makes most of the disadvantages of higher stall (more heat, lower fuel economy) go away.

The converter behind my LS1 is a Stage 3 w/anti-balloon plate from RevMax ( http://revmaxconverters.com/ ). Quite happy with it. I had a Hughes in the 396/TH400, loved it (but I haven't had one of their lock-up versions). The two most popular seem to be Yank and Continental - I haven't personally used either, but don't hear many complaints. Are they more expensive than B&M or TCI? Yes. But, you may have heard that you get what you pay for.

The heads should have been check for valve travel with the valve stem seals & retainers installed. You should have about .050" more travel than lift. Often that means cutting down the tops of the valve guides. Ditto the springs - aftermarket are a must, matched to the cam, and coil bind should be at least .050"-.060" more than lift.

BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

Seeing as its tax time, I think Imma drop some money in heads, since the ones I have are wont fit what I want and had some issues in the past. So at this point its looking like imma do heads n headers as well as cam and stall. What should I be looking for Do I need anything more than 195cc intake? Going to keep it at 64ccs or as close as possible I dont want to lose any of my compression

LS4GXP

iTrader: (2)

Depending on what you want to spend for Heads/Cam/Headers and Y pipe, i will be doing a tear down on my motor the first week in march. I will most likely be putting my stuff up for sale as i have bought a T76 Turbo and will be working on that very shortly. My compression is too high so am gonna need new heads/cam/ headers. Like i said, depending what your looking to spend maybe we could work something out as a package deal. All parts are brand new and have about 3-4 tanks of gas on them, so mileage is very short.

- AFR 195cc 64cc heads with upgraded spings and AFR tall Valve covers powder coated black, MLS Head gaskets, reusable if you would want them, ill throw them in, they were $170 if i remember correctly ( no rockers )
- Custom Grind Mike Jones cam
- Dyno Dons headers and Y pipe

Am kind of ansty get get my build going so am willing to lose a couple of hundred dollars on a deal

BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

Ok so. 355 flat top pistons with AFR 1040 heads, edlebrock RPM intake, hooker headers into true dual w no cats, Now I am back to Cam and stall. dont want to go too large on the cam... Was thinking of comp cams XE274H and a 2400 stall? Any guesses as to what hp I'd be close to?

LS4GXP

iTrader: (2)

Is that an air gap intake. Would suck to have nice heads and an intake to hold you back. I i have a 3k stall, very streetable

BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

Not an airgap, Just performer RPM. Also, I really dont want to go above 2500 stall...

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I don't understand your hangup about stall. 195cc heads require RPMs to work. That means a healthy cam. If you under-stall it, it'll be a dog for you. 2500 RPMs is bare minimum for a XE274 cam. More cam would help the heads make some power. The XE284 would be a better match for the heads, and the RPM intake would support it. Now you're looking at 3000 stall for reasonable performance.

If you're concerned about maintaining DD-ability, then you're headed in the wrong direction with the 195cc heads. This kit http://sdparts.com/details/scoggin-d...ter/sd8060raag alone would produce a 40 HP jump. Add a XE268 cam, and it'll be a huge boost over that Edelbrock cam. With 2500 stall, it'll be plenty tame for daily driving.

FWIW, today I watched my tach carefully to see what it does in "normal" driving. Pulling away from a stop sign like your typical grocery getter took about 1200 RPMs. A little more aggressive driving was in the 1500-1800 RPM range. Stock 3rd gen V8 stall was around 1600 RPM. So, yes, it does rev up a little more than a stock converter does, but like I already said, you get used to it quickly, and it doesn't seem "loose" at all when the cam, intake, and stall are all properly matched to each other. Granted this is with an EFI LS1, but my DD experience with a carb, ZZ4 cam, and 2500 stall was little different (except the LS1 will rip the ears off of the ZZ4-cam'd Gen I SBC... ).

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The Air Gap RPM intake doesn't make any more power than the non-AG RPM intake. The difference, if any, is less potential for heat transfer to the air/fuel charge with continuous running.

Even so, I have yet to see back-to-back dyno sheets showing the AG is superior under any conditions.

BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

OK so you said you are runnink a 3k stall right? Whats it rev at crusing like 65 down the highway? thats my main concern really... I love road trips and I dont want to screw myself out of being able to go visit people (roughly four hours away)

BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

OH another question for you five7. Did you go with the cf clutch or is that unnecessary (revmax is only 10 bucks more than B&m)

BloodBassist

iTrader: (1)

I can use my old lifters right (seeing as I am going from Hyd. flat tappet to Hyd. flat tappet) they dont even have 6k on em yet

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Sorry, lost track of this.

My converter stalls at about 3500. At 65 MPH, it acts exactly like a 1200 stall lock-up converter - because it's locked up by the torque converter clutch and isn't slipping at all. The rear end gears and tire diameter determine cruise RPM, not the stall of the converter. With 3.73 gears and 24" tall tires, it runs 2300 RPMs at 65 MPH. On the other hand, when the '57 had a 4000 stall converter, no overdrive, no lockup, 3.73 gears, and 26" tires, it cruised 65 MPH at 3400 RPMs.

I went with the TCC clutch material RevMax said worked for street/strip with no lock-up on the strip. I don't have the receipt in front of me and don't remember which material that was.

Flat tappets and the cam "wear in" to each other. While you might get away with it, it's best to put new lifters on a new cam.