84olmpcboy

I know this has been asked a million times but I've done allot of research and am just getting myself confused now . But I am planing on swaping a small block in this winter, was thinking about a 327 because it can really rev but have been told that the 350 is more reliable. I'm on a college budget so looking to spend no more than $600 on the engine and hoping to get 350-400 horsepower. Looking at getting 327block or 350 whichever you guys recommend, mid 90's 350 truck heads and doing mild port job, air gap intake (if recommended) with 650 carb and for the cam I want something that will give me a choppy idle without sacrificing low end and gas milage thinking com ***** thumpr cams. This will be my daily driver for school and work but will see autocross, drags, and possibly a few stoplight runs when streetrod show comes to town so needs to be reliable and an overall performer. Any recommendations or complete CHEAP build guides are appreciated. Like I said looking at block for $50 with rotating assembly and going to put new bearings &possibly rings rebuild whatever needs it then going from there I know it wont be best out there but my 6 isn't going to last much longer and would rather have a v8.

andy74

a 600 dollar budget is probably going to net you with all junkyard/swap meet parts,if it was me id look for a sound 350 to swap in,preferably a 88 or newer so you can have the roller cam and 1 piece rear main seal,and use what ever money you have left over on the little things that will come up,and then save towards upgrades-just my 2 cents

84olmpcboy

Yeah, I'm looking through craigslist, Carlisle, and local junkyards for parts. I'd like to keep it as simple as possible (no power steering, a/c, smog, and go carb). I'm afraid of messing with a computer and injection once I start upgrading stuff. I found a complete 350 for $150 and figure go with new rings+bearings, new cam, junkyard heads, swap meet intake + carb, and swap meet headers but I'm not sure of how to match everything together. From what I've seen I'm thinking mid 90s vortec heads, air gap intake, edelbrock 650, shorty headers, and cam no clue? Will that combo match rpm wise? Also had crazy thought of doing a 455 buick, one for sale with tranny and it runs for $300, do a cam swap and raise compression and you got 400hp and 455lbft

1gary

Find a decent running donor with the carb etc you want.That way you get as many of the needed parts you might have to have.And I am not talking about just a Thridgen donor.Trucks like pickups do come into play.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

{Give me patience, Lord...}

At the track, I recently was paired with a '57 Chevy with a 414 small block in it. It's a stick shift car. He launches at 7000 RPMs and shifts at 8500 RPMs. A 414 has both a longer stroke and larger bore than either the 327 or 350. So, how much does stroke have to do with RPM capability? A tiny, itty bitty part, that's how much.

RPM capability is a combination of a stout rotating assembly that can take the stress of bringing each piston to a complete stop twice per crankshaft revolution, and a stout valve train that can open and close each valve once every two crankshaft revolution. It's the latter that gives it the ability, and the former that keeps it together.

Is this $600 for the longblock only? Or, did you expect to do the whole engine for $600? If the latter, I think you're dreaming. You may be able to find a '96-'99 light truck 350 (not "mid-90's" - nor Vortec heads until 1996) that will already have Vortec heads, and get it sort of freshened up for a total of $600. Bored, pistons, working over the heads - forget it for $600.

84olmpcboy

I'm going to try and do whole thing for $600. Found a running 350 with the intake+carb combo I wanted and had recent rings+bearings put in it for $200. All Id have to do is pull pan double check everything and do heads and cam then. I'm not expecting this to last long all I want is 6yrs till Im done and paid off with school and can do an ls swap.

torque_is_good

so, basically you are just looking to slap together something that you can toss onto an engine stand and go out and run for 5 minutes each week for 6 years............right?

If not, please save your effort and the itsy bitsy little money you have for this.

84olmpcboy

Problem with that is my v6 is about to go trannys crap and its just as much to buy junkyard v6 and swap it in as it is a 350. And im perty sure itll hold, I mean I'm not guna abuse it 24/7 and stock bottom end with vortec heads and 4bbl carb/intake should push me to 300 dependable horsepower + every other budget hotrod has this combo.

torque_is_good

you have been all over the map here

you want to do a performance build and do it for $600 and that inckludes buying some junkyard engine

you need 6 years of reliability (please see the $600 budget)

and now you say your tranny is going out as well


honestly, go find the best used car you can with the money you have and sell your car as a $300 roller

If all that you need is just an engine, and it's not to go to a v8 then I'd say go find a running small block, do not open it up and toss it end and go to church and say your prayers.

if you go the junker route, you do not know the disposition. I had a stock rebuild .030 boring done to my 305 including the valve job and all parts included for only $1300 plus tax. I then added new belt, hoses, ignition components, fluids etc so it hovered around $1500

That was all the machine work, the works. It was a great deal and the engine runs great however I already had the engine. The vehicle now has a reliable engine which will run for years. I also had the 700R4 bench rebuilt (it was out of the vehicle) and upgraded a few hard parts and a rebuilt TC and had that done for a little under $650, again, a good deal because the hard parts and TC are included in that price.

Add a new tranny mount, 2 new u joints and 12 quarts of fluid and you are over $700 so already owning the cores, you are looking at $2200 approx doing all of the labor myself

There is no doubt in my mind given proper maintenance that both items will last at least 5-6 years without a hitch. You are trying to do that for $600 without even owning the cores

with respect to the engine rebuild, I was very fortunate to find this shop. The local shop wanted $1200 just for the machine work and valve job on the heads and I would need to buy the parts and then reassemble the engine.

money adds up real uick and you can't just toss parts into an old junker block.

first you want it cleaned and magnafluxed to be sure it's ok to use. THen you need it decked and bored and honed and possibly align honed. New cam bearings, you'll need the rods resized and the crank and cam ground and inspected. if it's not a roller you'll need a new cam, lifters and pushrods. A roller and the cam is probably ok but needs to be machined but it's good policy to get new lifters and pushrods. We haven't even touched the cylinder heads yet

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

You also said you wanted 350-400 HP out of your $600 engine.

I hope you realize the V8 won't bolt up to your V6 transmission. You're going to need a separate pile of cash for that.

torque_is_good

I missed that!!! That's not a stock 700R4 rebuilt tranny then...........more cash

84olmpcboy

I know v8 wont bolt up, I picked up a 350turbo my friend had in his nova (about a 450hp car) and it held up fine in that, got it for $150 so I still have 600 for engine. I can get machine work done for free (boring valves exc). Tl clarify what I meant by performance I mean keeping it mostly stock except cam and intake. And getting decent set of gm 350heads. If all else fails I'll just do what you said and buy and engine take off heads pan to check for tollerances to see if it needs anything slap gaskets on it and call it done but I would really like to beef it up a little bit before I throw it in. Saw super chevy did a 400hp/440lbft build for right at $1100, so 350hp shouldnt be too far out of reach with my budget.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

I remember those days... that was ALOT of motors ago.

I guess sometimes people just have to find it out for themselves.

Go do your $1100 swap. Come back and let us know how it worked out.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Super Chevy got real lucky, tweaked some numbers ,or found stuff for very unrealistic prices, etc etc etc. People here that say things cost a certain amount are people that have been there and done that before.

I probably have about $3000-$3500 in my setup, and Im putting 300 to the wheels or thereabouts. And I found deals everywhere I could.

Just the carb swap cost me $500 or so.

84olmpcboy

Parts around here are somewhat cheaper then, allot of motorheads in York ex; Carlisle you can get complete aluminum intake + 4bbl carb for under 200. Heads there usually go for around 200 and I even saw a running LS2 for $500 but I didnt have the cash or that woulda been mine. But Im on a COLLEGE BUDGET, and cars guna need an engine or at least rebuild before spring. Got too much in this car to sell it and not enough to buy another so I'm trying to do the best with what I have

84olmpcboy

Thats kinda high for that power. Friend builds sprint car engines and built one for his nova through swap meets and whatnot. Has under $3,000 in the engine and its pushing 430hp dyno proven, he's tached it out at 9 grand and has held up as his daily driver for 5yrs with only a broken valve spring.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

**** costs money when you build it right.

Remember I started out as a 305 TBI car. I had to buy everything from fuel pressure regulators to distributors to engine mounts to intake bolts to head bolts, to a shorter air filter, to gaskets to my sfi T56 flywheel etc etc. That **** all adds up. It's easy to add the price of all the metal parts of a longblock without a carb or distributor etc, and say that's your cost, but there's a whole lot more to it than that. Very few people start with cars that are already set up for performance, and when you start dropping performance motors in, everything else has to change to accomodate it.

That said it's a bit hard for me to pin down the exact cost because I was able to reuse a lot of things from my first two failed builds. First set of heads I got were junk ($500 newbie mistake) and puked water into the exhaust. Then I replaced the heads with a new set (reusing a lot of the original hardware) and after that my block cracked (No more .060 over blocks), and I had to start over with a new rotating assembly after that since I went from 2 pc RMS to 1 pc. So it may be closer to $2000-$2500 if you dont count the nickel and dime stuff. But this is a game that costs a lot of money to play and there's no way around that.

84olmpcboy

I agree that the nickle & dime stuff will kill me, overall I have about $1,000 set aside so I should have 400 for that stuff. I'm going tomorrow to pick up most of the stuff running 350 with aluminum intake + nice carb for $175 then found a set of assembled vortec heads off a low milage truck for $100 so I have a lil bit to play with for cam and bottom end rebuild.
Don't know if that was sarcastic or not but it does have almost 30,000 street miles and at least 50 high 11 time slips so its been a good street/strip combo car.

torque_is_good

[quote=84olmpcboy;5034552]I agree that the nickle & dime stuff will kill me, overall I have about $1,000 set aside so I should have 400 for that stuff. I'm going tomorrow to pick up most of the stuff running 350 with aluminum intake + nice carb for $175 then found a set of assembled vortec heads off a low milage truck for $100 so I have a lil bit to play with for cam and bottom end rebuild.
Don't know if that was sarcastic or not but it does have almost 30,000 street miles and at least 50 high 11 time slips so its been a good street/strip combo car.[/quote

Please keep us updated

torque_is_good

Sometimes that's the best way to learn, the hard way.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

I didn't cut any corners in my first engine build. That was only 1000 miles ago. I just really hope I still don't end up learning about something the hard way with all the money I have in it.


But yeah, $600 isn't enough to get ANY V8 into your V6 car. There's parts you have to buy just for that endeavor.
I think it cost me a total of around $1000 to do mine when I was in high school, and I bought the cheapest parts I could!

1gary

I think one point about this build was missed.

Someone please explain to me where is there a time stamp on any project for completion?? Towards that end I think over time it is more a matter of degrees of a commitment over the yrs it takes.

Soooooooooo take you short cash situation(trust me,you are short on cash for this kind of thing)and put that cash you have right now for a purchase of a D.D'er.Put the car away doing what you can-when you can.

No rush-------sure could end up when done with more than you are planing for now.

84olmpcboy

Thats about what my budget is, I picked up a known working 350 tranny cheap and I got exhaust setup for $60 which is shorty headers into 3in y-pipe with straight through cat. Might need radiator? Leaving stock springs in unless I can find cheap used lowering springs. Picked up one of the high nickel blocks complete minus alt. for $150 and it runs (has 650 holly and air gap intake so I'm going to stick with them) got a set of vortec heads complete with covers and new gaskets for $100 and they look good but won't know for sure till there on I guess. Going to crack open pan sometime this weekend and take measurements to see if I need to bore it or do bearings in it. Any recommendations for cam with this setup?

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

if you have a trans, then the $600 might get you into a good running vortec 350 but won't leave any money for an intake & carb, nor any money for the inevitable odds & ends that any engine swap would require. $600 just isn't enough to build/buy a decent motor and swap it where a 2.8 was.

startat2

iTrader: (2)

If $600 is your budget to get it running for six years I agree with many of the others. Either fix/rebuild what you have, or put it towards a DD and work on the camaro when you can afford it. Also if I were on a college kid budget I would stay away from the race track and high revs, as much as I hate to say that.

I dont know how the weather is where you live, what you do for a living or the rest of your circumstances. But if pennies are really tight, you may look at another form of transportation for a short while. Get you a bike or ride the bus to school, work, etc. It maybe a PITA for a while, but it will help you save money (gas, oil changes, insurance), and let you garage the camaro while you build her up right, with out cutting corners.

I do ride my bike to work (15.2 miles RT) when it is nice and my schedule allows. I do it more for enjoyment, but it also helps save money (thats what I tell my self anyways)

1gary

One other rarely accounting for the end product of any project is the environment your are working out of(shop/garage-heated,lights,lift,etc) and the tools and equipment you have to work with.Our race shop has tens of thousands of dollars invested in that and my own personal shop is fastly gaining in the accounting of that.Trust in the fact the kind of place,tools,equipment does impact the quality of work done.There is no way $600.00 can even begin to cover that.When I see a race car or go to a car show and see a good project done right by the owner,I do appreciate the amount he spent on stuff behind the scenes and very likely the yrs it took for him to build up that.

jpossibul

I am the first to admit I am a machinist and not a mechanic. However, I can't help but chime in on this since I've suffered countless headaches and set-backs farting around with this old Trans Am for the past 3 years. I have to stress you get what you pay for. Even if you got the pockets to play with an old car, a guy is going to spend money learning what works and what don't. It amazes me how much can change in a car from year model to year model - like small harness plugs, minor schematic changes, sensors, where they mount, what they are compatible with, and the list goes on forever. I like a challenge, but some things are beyond my scope of what I will endure for the finished outcome. It all came down to how much I loved and wanted the car finished as to whether or not it was going to get finished! That is what gets a new guy through the experience. (And I will be a "new guy" for a long, long, time.)

With that said, in the future, there are only two ways I would ever consider doing any kind of a build. The first is my preference. Start with a car (whether your car and a donor car with the stuff you need, or a car that has most everything you want in it anyway) and keep it completely stock. Restore the thing like it was new and that way you don't spend a bunch of money on mismatched stuff that don't work together. The parts may look exactly the same, but it don't fit or work exactly the same.

The second way is to go completely 100% old school and rip all that crap out of there going with an old school hot rod. To me, carburator and computer don't belong in the same sentence! (Hence, the auto industry's learning curve in the early 80's).

$1100? It is a start. But I wouldn't be planning on driving it as a daily driver. I am not being sarcastic, just saying cause it takes time to do these things and it is never about turning the key and all your plans work out just the way you think they will. Nothing ever works out that way whether you are talking about cars or life itself.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

unless the engine you got had vortech heads already, you cant reuse the intake. vortec heads need vortec specific intake.

And im with everyone else on this. $600 isnt enough to do a v6 to v8 swap. no matter how great of deals your getting. unless you start getting a lot of free parts youre gonna run out of money before youre done and be stuck broke halfway through your swap and have no car.