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Old 10-11-2007, 07:15 PM   #1
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Mini tubb project started

Since I installed the 5.5 backspace MT drags, It has bothered me that they stick out further than the stock IROC`s did (4.75 backspace) something has to give to put a 10" wheel under the stock wells I guess. Catching the groove of the other cars at the track is tricky at best... I had tossed around the idea of shortening the housing and axles for sometime now, MT did come out with a 6.5 backspace but I think it`s in a 5X5 pattern, I could have the axles drilled and go that way.... 275 a rim + the axle work. I like the look (dish) of the 5.5 and would actually like a 4.5 on a 10 even better but I`m going to use what I have, keep the 5.5 backspace and have the housing cut 1.5 inches on each side, effectively that should fit like a 7.0 backspace wheel I guess, but it`ll have the depth that looks better IMO. I had the axle out over the weekend, tore it down to the bare housing.
TPI383 has some great pictures posted in another mini tub thread, this gave the confidence to start this to begin with, drilling a few holes with a step drill in increments over the radial dimension of the well allowed me to basically connect the "dots" with the saw-zall, it took about 1.5 hrs to get to this

point, obviously I did not remove all of the remaining bit`s of my interior




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Old 10-11-2007, 09:56 PM   #2
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Re: Mini tubb project started

I know we tub and mini tub to stuff bigger tires under the fenders for racing but I'm going to move this to the fabrication board.
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Old 10-11-2007, 10:08 PM   #3
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Re: Mini tubb project started

no way you'll fit 7.0 inches of backspacing. Just not possible even with a mini tub. I ran the 6.5bs with a wider tire 12.7" of section width and I have maybe 1/4" between the spring and the sidewall. That bumpstop area should be cut out completely and then weld in flat metal there. I'm curious who you found that makes a thirdgen specific minitub as all I've found where 4th gen ones. Either way I've gotten all the "room" I could as the spring is the limiting factor....although you could switch to wolfe race craft thinner circle track springs and that "might" give you the clearance you're after, although offset LCAs like double rod ended ones I run would be an absolute and the panhard bar bracket might be an issue as well. Good luck on this, I hope to follow the progress.
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Old 10-11-2007, 10:30 PM   #4
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Re: Mini tubb project started

Just cut it all out and start fresh
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Old 10-12-2007, 07:20 PM   #5
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Re: Mini tubb project started

this should be what you're shooting for

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Old 10-12-2007, 07:44 PM   #6
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Re: Mini tubb project started

subscribbing. can't wait to see how it comes out.
another pic I have saved. This is how you should cut the bump stop out and narrow the frame rails and reinforce it.

http://www.cecoatings.com/images/oth...n/000_0048.jpg
http://www.cecoatings.com/images/oth...n/000_0049.jpg

You can always move the spring inward some. same with the shocks. Just depends on how much fab work you want to do.
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Old 10-12-2007, 07:46 PM   #7
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Re: Mini tubb project started

This is a very interesting thread as I was already seriously taking a look at doing the same thing. As was pointed out, for what I was looking at doing the stock spring is a bit of a limitation. Do you have any plans to replace the stock springs with something that will offer a bit more room?

xpndlb3- Are there any more pictures on this board that go along with the one you posted? That looks very agressive, but also about what may be needed. I am curious what all was done in that mod. How does the wheel well clearance compare with the control arm clearance? I guess it isn't all bad if the control arm is tighter than the wheel well when thinking about body roll. It does look like the rear subframe is really weak unless something has been added that can't be seen.
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Old 10-12-2007, 08:10 PM   #8
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Re: Mini tubb project started

rear subframe doesn't really need reinforcing, the jegs subframes weld to the LCA mount which is where all the force in a drag car will be. Running double rod ended offset LCAs will move the LCAs another 1" towards the middle of the chassis along with the tubular shape adding clearance as well. There are pics floating around ls1tech.com if you search for mini-tub, not many people on this site have done it.
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Old 10-12-2007, 08:26 PM   #9
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Re: Mini tubb project started

Here are some more pic's of stuff I have saved.
http://www.cecoatings.com/images/oth...3TUBBED3rdgen/

http://www.cecoatings.com/images/oth...%20Turbo%2084/
http://www.cecoatings.com/images/Car...2Z/MiniTubbes/
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:36 PM   #10
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Re: Mini tubb project started

I was looking at starting the same project. Anybody familar with the Autofab rear coil over conversion kit. This would eliminate the spring clearance issue. Here is a link to the kit.

http://www.racingjunk.com/post/60661...l?free_trial=0
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Old 10-13-2007, 07:33 AM   #11
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Re: Mini tubb project started

I`m planning on using summit wheel tubs, not a third gen specific wheel house...I`m not sure anyone makes one. I`m also planning to cut that spring enclosure out also, actually I was thinking of just drilling the spot welds out and removing it as a whole, what do you think??

xpndbl3, that looks pretty good is that your car? that spring mount looks like the 4th gen wolfe coil kit they sell with the mini tub kit, Oh and I do have double adjustable rod end control arms already, they are not offset bushed yet but they will be. As for the springs, I`m planning on using a adjustable coil over strange shock or possibly the sphon coil over set up.
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Old 10-13-2007, 07:38 AM   #12
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Re: Mini tubb project started

Quote:
Originally Posted by 88bracketT/A View Post
I was looking at starting the same project. Anybody familar with the Autofab rear coil over conversion kit. This would eliminate the spring clearance issue. Here is a link to the kit.

http://www.racingjunk.com/post/60661...l?free_trial=0
Looks like they have a reinforcement plate in there too, (like spohns) could be a good alternative, I`ve seen them on ebay also but they looked like they were more universal, guess I was mistaken.
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Old 10-13-2007, 10:10 AM   #13
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Re: Mini tubb project started

just move in inboard like Im doing.
http://www.cecoatings.com/images/Car...d/DSC03646.JPG
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Old 10-13-2007, 02:20 PM   #14
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Re: Mini tubb project started




These are all really good pictures to help illustrate how the bits and pieces go together and where each has to be cut to give a certain amount of clearance.

One thing that I didn't really see in any of these pictures is what happens with the panhard bar mount. Some of these look like the stock mount was just barely out of the way while others look like the goal was to provide more clearance than the stock mount will allow. Has anybody had to relocate the mount or try to move it inboard a little and shorten the panhard bar?

xpndbl3- Your response basically answers my question. It doesn't really matter that the subframe was weakend because that particular car was built with a special purpose in mind. The weakend subframe is not a concern for the car's application.

greezemonkey- What size tire are you shooting to run on that 15x10 when you are done?
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Old 10-13-2007, 03:44 PM   #15
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Re: Mini tubb project started

I don't consider the subframe weakened because the subframe connectors are welded to the LCA front mount. 1/4" steel is more than strong enough for this application.

greezemonkey, not my car but a buddies that we did. That is the wolfe spring kit, I might just swap to the smaller circle track springs as well instead of relocating everything inboard.
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Old 10-13-2007, 04:08 PM   #16
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Re: Mini tubb project started

I`m hoping to get a 29.5x10.5W in there, mainly though a solid 10 inches of tread with the car sitting at a normal level is the goal. I was thinking of using those wolfe spring mounts, when I talked to them they said it wouldn`t fit a third gen, I wasn`t on the horn to buy them at that point anyway and thought it was just someone that had no knowledge at all about camaro`s
After thinking about it, it would be cheaper to go that route than the coil overs, but again only by a few $`s.
For the panhard bar I did quite a bit of measuring before removing the axle, after cutting the stock length axle tube 1.5 inches, I still will have a solid 1 inch of gap, even if it were a issue it would be a no problem thing to remove the stock mount and move it inboard a bit. The limiting factor is the control arms, even with offset bushing double adjustable rod end type arms, it`ll still only have about 1 inch of room top the section width. The one thing I know that will need to be trimmed are the control arm relocation brackets, the section width of even the 29x11.5 dot hoosier would hit those, once trimmed though they will still have all of the adjustments and clear fine.
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Old 10-17-2007, 06:24 PM   #17
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Re: Mini tubb project started

I had some time to get the driver side well out. It is a little more involved than the passenger side, for one the fuel tank neck runs through it and the rear of the well is extended for this. This well has some extra layers and folds and was about an xtra 1/2 hr to excavate. One of the problems with this side is that the well runs right up to the lip of the rear hatch and makes for some nervous cutting. I left the rear 1/4 of the well in there because I`m not sure how far the 36x23x18 tubs will go or how high I`m going to set them. There is still plenty of "trimming" to be done at this point, I`m going to use my hand size recipocating saw, it`s tiny enough to get close to the paint work and I don`t have to worry about the blades denting the metal from the inside, they are way flimsy! now pictures........

If you look you can see the cut running right up the middle


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Old 10-18-2007, 04:56 PM   #18
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Re: Mini tubb project started

For those of you that cut all these parts out already, is it possible to remove the X-ed out section in this picture without removing the whole inner wheel well? Where would you have to cut to do it? Maybe a few pics of the assemblies that you have sitting against the wall from the bottom/different angles?
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Old 10-18-2007, 05:11 PM   #19
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Re: Mini tubb project started

on both sides you haven't moved the tubs inward yet....you need to remove the entire bumpstop piece of steel and then some, make it look like the pic I posted. Right now you've just enlarged the hole opening, but not made the width opening any bigger yet. So far progress looks good, I haven't seen these bottom seat brackets in years, so I had to look at them twice to figure out what they were for.
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Old 10-19-2007, 01:42 PM   #20
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Re: Mini tubb project started

Quote:
Originally Posted by 83 Crossfire TA View Post
For those of you that cut all these parts out already, is it possible to remove the X-ed out section in this picture without removing the whole inner wheel well? Where would you have to cut to do it? Maybe a few pics of the assemblies that you have sitting against the wall from the bottom/different angles?
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Old 10-19-2007, 03:37 PM   #21
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Re: Mini tubb project started

looks like he only cut out the top portion, but everything in that picture needs to be removed. All that sheetmetal is in the way.
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Old 10-19-2007, 04:10 PM   #22
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Re: Mini tubb project started

I cut out the entire well, I still need to remove the caps that hold the springs, I will do that shortly. As far as that lip you have highlighted, yes you could remove it but it won`t open up any room, it is a flange where the floor and wheel well are welded together.


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Old 10-22-2007, 09:09 AM   #23
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Re: Mini tubb project started

Has anyone found a way to keep the backseat and do a mini tub? Ive been stewing over it for quite a while now.

Thanks
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Old 10-22-2007, 09:30 AM   #24
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Re: Mini tubb project started

redo em. custom seats.
narrow the center and redo the bottoms.

Hopefully its just for looks. I wound't be putting anyone in the back with a cage to bounce their head off.
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Old 10-23-2007, 08:09 PM   #25
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Re: Mini tubb project started

After reading this and going to my local speed shop and seeing some MT ET meats, I have finally decided to take on this project, started cutting into the driverside tonight. Im not doing mine as extensive as you greezemonkey, But im figuring I can fit 325-50R15's in there with a 15x10 6.5bs. The only thing is they got a 13" sec and im running stock axles will I hit the LCA or anything?

Thanks Guys
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Old 10-24-2007, 05:46 AM   #26
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Re: Mini tubb project started

I dunno, it`ll be close w/ 6.5 backspace, I`d bet you would need offset control arms.
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Old 10-24-2007, 07:25 AM   #27
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Re: Mini tubb project started

Any good way to check? Im also looking at the comp engineering tubs or the jegs ones. you gonna weld it or rivet it, any structural benifit?
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Old 10-24-2007, 08:23 AM   #28
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Re: Mini tubb project started

I think it would be easier to fabricate and more structurally sound to move the rear quarter outwards. Like this guy did

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/bo...plete-now.html
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Old 10-24-2007, 08:33 AM   #29
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Re: Mini tubb project started

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I think it would be easier to fabricate and more structurally sound to move the rear quarter outwards. Like this guy did
Once the tubbs are in its no less structurally sound then before.

neils car is nice.
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Old 10-24-2007, 02:54 PM   #30
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Re: Mini tubb project started

tubs aren't really a load bearing area of the vehicle, so being structurally sound isn't really an issue. Extending quarter panels outward and having it look nice is not even remotely easier to do than welding in a few tubs.
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Old 10-29-2007, 12:02 PM   #31
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Re: Mini tubb project started

Greezemonkey great outline on what to cut out and it gave me some ideas because I am right around the same steps that you have posted on your page. Are you going to make your fenders from scratch or customize a pair of universal ones if possible? Also how do you plan on sealing up all the seems? close spot welds or some type of sealant to help after some welding? Keep the pics coming I cant wait to see what your end product looks like.

P.S. Bad A** looking Car
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Old 10-29-2007, 02:43 PM   #32
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Re: Mini tubb project started

yes great pics, I just ordered the spring perch kit from wolfe and the 2.5" springs. I should be starting on mine as soon as the perches come in the mail. I will be postings pictures of my mini tun project as well.
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Old 10-29-2007, 05:30 PM   #33
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Re: Mini tubb project started

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Greezemonkey great outline on what to cut out and it gave me some ideas because I am right around the same steps that you have posted on your page. Are you going to make your fenders from scratch or customize a pair of universal ones if possible? Also how do you plan on sealing up all the seems? close spot welds or some type of sealant to help after some welding? Keep the pics coming I cant wait to see what your end product looks like.

P.S. Bad A** looking Car
Hey thanks!

I was going to buy universals, it looks like I`ll need to add to the length and possibly the width. The wells will have to fit tight to begin with, even at that the unusual curves and contours on the stock body will require some creative fill pieces. I`ll take pictures as I go, I`m waiting on the axle right now, I was expecting it this week. Once I have that I think I`ll drop it in there and bolt up the tires to see what else if anything will need to be done.
I do not have the tires I`ll be using next year but the ones I ran this year will give me a good idea of the room I have or will need. I think there will be some seam sealer being used!
----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by superirocz View Post
yes great pics, I just ordered the spring perch kit from wolfe and the 2.5" springs. I should be starting on mine as soon as the perches come in the mail. I will be postings pictures of my mini tun project as well.
Thanks,
Ya know, I was just thinking that I was going to go with that kit, our overtime looks like it`ll be in the can this year (we are in contract talks + not going well) I`m probably going to go with those to save the extra $ over the coil overs...I`m trying to scratch enough money up for better heads this winter too.

Last edited by greezemonkey; 10-29-2007 at 05:33 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 10-29-2007, 09:59 PM   #34
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Re: Mini tubb project started

I'll be doing the 2.5" springs this winter as well, even though I think I have all the room I'll need right now, a little more room to grow would be nice. Still pushing someone to make a thirdgen minitub, hopefully ed quay steps up--I have until january before I do mine regardless since I have other things to attend to first.

Glad to see your car is coming along, too bad the contract talks aren't going well....I know all about that
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Old 10-30-2007, 09:59 AM   #35
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Re: Mini tubb project started

I just ordered some universal tubs, I'm going to spot weld them in and use seam filler. There are weird shapes and contours as said above but we'll see how it comes out.
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Old 11-02-2007, 04:49 PM   #36
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Re: Mini tubb project started

any updates scott?
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Old 11-02-2007, 09:33 PM   #37
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Re: Mini tubb project started

Not to high jack your thread but here is a pic of my spring perches that showed up today along with my springs. I will be starting tommorow on my mini tubs and will start a new thread documenting my process.
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Old 11-03-2007, 01:11 PM   #38
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Re: Mini tubb project started

Quote:
Originally Posted by xpndbl3 View Post
any updates scott?
Still waiting on the axles + housing....although a TGO member 2fast4u92z contacted me last week about a set of 12 way adjustable Hal/Qa1 coil overs that he would never use, I met up with him this morning and I will be using coil overs in the rear now. I got them for a really decent price and they have never been used and are complete with all the mounting equipment. I`ll order the tubs this weekend and start getting some more progress pictures going
----------
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Not to high jack your thread but here is a pic of my spring perches that showed up today along with my springs. I will be starting tommorow on my mini tubs and will start a new thread documenting my process.
Now I see why they said that they wouldn`t work in a 3rd gen.

Hey and don`t worry about any hi jackin` if it`s about mini tubbing, bring it!

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Old 11-03-2007, 04:42 PM   #39
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Re: Mini tubb project started

just wondering, has anyone ever tried a 15x10 wheel with 6.5" of backspacing on a third gen?? Thats with out mini tubs.
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Old 11-04-2007, 05:58 AM   #40
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Re: Mini tubb project started

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just wondering, has anyone ever tried a 15x10 wheel with 6.5" of backspacing on a third gen?? Thats with out mini tubs.
I think xpndbl3 has them on his car right now with no tub job
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Old 11-04-2007, 10:51 AM   #41
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Re: Mini tubb project started

while I don't have minitubs per say, I did 14 hours of cutting and reshaping to make them fit. Much more tucked than the 5.5bs and no rubbing, won't have pics of the metalwork until the car is up for the cam swap, but all sheetmetal is cut all the way back until it's against the spring and the entire front of the tub is shaped like a square now at the lower bottom and the outside frame rail section was cutout and boxed off as well.

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

hope that helps
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Old 11-04-2007, 02:12 PM   #42
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Re: Mini tubb project started

Sure does thanks buddy, I should work with rear coilovers to thought rights???
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Old 11-04-2007, 06:08 PM   #43
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Re: Mini tubb project started

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Sure does thanks buddy, I should work with rear coilovers to thought rights???
Wow i worded that crazy, lets try again. It should work with rear coilovers, right?
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Old 11-04-2007, 08:26 PM   #44
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Re: Mini tubb project started

What companies are selling rear coil over kits? I have seen the Spohn kit-any other good ones?
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Old 11-08-2007, 11:34 PM   #45
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Re: Mini tubb project started

how are you dealing with the lower control arms? I am running 315's in the back that are tucked in pretty well, and i'd say i have no more than an inch of clearence between the tire and the lca - and all i did was push things in a little with a BFH and some heat.... thats gotta be an issue with having everything pushed in so far...
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Old 11-09-2007, 05:33 AM   #46
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Re: Mini tubb project started

Quote:
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What companies are selling rear coil over kits? I have seen the Spohn kit-any other good ones?
Autofab is selling a kit, looks very similar to spohns, also qa1 sells universal kits.

Quote:
how are you dealing with the lower control arms? I am running 315's in the back that are tucked in pretty well, and i'd say i have no more than an inch of clearence between the tire and the lca - and all i did was push things in a little with a BFH and some heat.... thats gotta be an issue with having everything pushed in so far...

I`m using double adjustable rod end arms, they are about a 3/4 inch diameter and I`m going to be using offset bushings that will move the arms over to the inboard sides of the mounts. I have found several 4th gen minitubbed cars running 29.5x10.5`s using that combo...tucked and level
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Old 11-18-2007, 04:43 PM   #47
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Re: Mini tubb project started

Finally had a little time this afternoon to trim off the remaining parts that needed to go....still no axle to install yet anyhow, took some more pictures for the thread....

Click the image to open in full size.


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Click the image to open in full size.


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Old 11-18-2007, 04:48 PM   #48
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Re: Mini tubb project started

few more here....

Click the image to open in full size.


Click the image to open in full size.


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I guess once this axle gets back here I`ll fit the coil overs in and start fitting the wheel tubs.
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Old 11-18-2007, 06:48 PM   #49
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Re: Mini tubb project started

Info on aluminum fuel tank.
Looking good so far!
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Old 11-18-2007, 09:15 PM   #50
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Re: Mini tubb project started

[quote=xpndbl3;3520390]while I don't have minitubs per say, I did 14 hours of cutting and reshaping to make them fit. Much more tucked than the 5.5bs and no rubbing, won't have pics of the metalwork until the car is up for the cam swap, but all sheetmetal is cut all the way back until it's against the spring and the entire front of the tub is shaped like a square now at the lower bottom and the outside frame rail section was cutout and boxed off as well.

Any pics yet? This seems like it would be a little easier then a mini-tub and I don't need the room a mini-tub provides. I just want to tuck a 325/50 15 on a
6.5 bs.
Sorry to hijack
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