Tice

It should be Garaged most of the time... So, No Prob... thanks.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Id like to chim in here on a few things. Being Ive done alot of composit work for aviation to yahts.

Inner sturcture Id use honeycomb cores.
http://www.aimcomposites.com/
http://www.kraftcomb.com/index.htm

there are TON more supplier and you can get the tuff paper thin. a 1/8th piece will hold the weight of me 152lbs and not crush. we put it in front of radiators because it doent diturb/retrict air flow and protect from rocks/etc.

2nd.

Jut use a Clear Polyester Resin. Most that you get for Compoit work already have UV protection formulated in it. Mot were created for the surfboard industry and made to withstand hours of direct sunlight.

No need for anybody to paint them with a clear coat as It already manufactured into the top. these 2 simple thing will make the top strong and fade resitant.

This is some good reading for everyone on the posibilities of cf pieces.
http://forums.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=660756

jccaclimber

My experience with nomex honeycomb is that it's much more expensive than foam cores, and a bit more difficult to work with. Given that this is a plate more or less, it also leaves the need to put more care into finishing the edges whereas a homogenous substance finishes nicer. I use nomex in areas where I have a structural concern, but that is not the case here. Are there other non metallic honeycombs you trust? I personally don't trust the cardboard ones simply because if somebody decides to put a hole in something and then gets water in I have assumed it would ruin the part. For resins I was planning to use epoxy rather than polyester because I have it around, but if you think it does not have a UV concern, and given that they are cheaper, I will look into those. Thank you.
I've been watching that mustang thread for a couple years now. He does very nice work.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Yes, it does cost more but you have a better/stronger product in the end. You don't have to run it right to the edge of the part either, leave it 1/4-1/2 inch from the edge. Its gonna be a small taper and you wouldnt even notice with the tops in.

ya Id use the non-metalic ones. Lets face it someone puts a hole in a carbonfiber T top they have other problems to worry about before getting water in the core.

I would deff. be using the poly resin with the uv based in it. If they can stand upto the UV and saltwater/sand etc used in surfboards/etc. I feel they would be just find for T Tops.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

Wow, that mustang man does very fine work. He even made it seem like a 3 picture job..ha ha, no I didn't read 19 pages.

Hot damn though, trunk only weighed 2lbs 9oz from 26 and roof 4lbs from the alleged 30+. About 54lbs lost right there. I love weight reduction.

Proceed.

jccaclimber

I did some more reading into polyester and vinylester resins in comparison to epoxy, which is what I have been using. Everything I found pointed out that ester resins are great with fiberglass, but very poor with carbon fiber and kevlar due to the non porosity of the fibers. Have you had experience otherwise or has all of your work been with fiberglass?. Also, t-tops need to be full thickness at the edges in order to seal on the bottom and look flush at the top. How would I achieve that if I taper the core?

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

We used both poly and epoxy. On both CF and FG.
Epoxy deff. flexes more &. wont spider crack as much as a poly. But a mentioned ill yellow if you dont use a uv clear coat. Ive seen but not ued a epoxy ith uv blocker in it

all depend on what your making i guess. Id use either in this instance a good epoxy or a Vinyl Ester Resin. Both would do the job. One jut cost more then the other. Depends what and how much the cutomer wanted to pend.
2 good ite for products
http://compositeenvisions.com/
http://www.uscomposites.com/

A for the edges. You would cut the core to size and the just layer the edges.

drop two layers, core, then two more layers.
Give the edges 2/3 addition layers for strength.

shouldnt be any problems laying the part up like this and bagging it.

DrummerDad

Sorry I havent updated in awhile. Work is crazy. I got promoted, and it seems I live there now.

Ive also started a business with some friends, completly unrelated to cars or aviation, and that consumes whats left of my time. I dont even get to wash the car like I want anymore. Im too busy driving it.

As for the molds and hood I was trying to get together, its not going to happen. Sorry. I got a quote for the molds, but nothing beyond that. And I cant find a solid sheet of carbon fiber wide enough for a hood. It can be seamed in the middle, but that kind of perfection is a bit too much for a couple guys in a garage.

Ive been trying to keep up, and I think TPI383 has a good point. The honeycomb would be a much nicer t-top. And It would be stronger. The paper core is fine for what youre doing, and if you knock a hole in the outerskin, you have bigger problems than water ruining the core. Also be careful if you decide to use a metal core. Carbon fiber conducts electricity, and in aviation, we cant put carbon fiber on aluminum. We have to use stainless. Something about the aluminum and carbon together. It will start a corrosion process that looks like a dissimilar metal, kind of flakey, and white.

Jccaclimber, I might be interested in a set of those t-tops, if you start making them. And Im still interested in some interior peices, and a hood. Im talking to another friend of mine about some lay-up work, since the last douchebag bailed on me. If I do anything else, Ill post it up. We are getting ready to do our second shroud at work, so Im sure Ill have the itch to do some more.

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to say, the wood core would work pretty good too. Check out a product called Dragonplate. Good stuff, but very pricey. We use all aluminum honeycomb, and fiberglass over paper honeycomb. The biggest difference, is the strength of the outer skin. The aluminum is stronger, and allows for greater "pull out" protection, like a screw being ripped through the skin. As for strength across a span, they are real close.

jccaclimber

I'm still in debate with myself as to which type of resin I want to use. Hearing that some other people have had decent luck with ester resins has given me the incentive to try that, now I just need to order some. We're running low on resin for our current chassis project here at the moment so I'll have to order something anyways. As for honeycomb, I'm used to using nomex (kevlar) honeycomb. Where do you recommend getting the paper/cardboard sort? For edges I was planning to use foam but it it has occurred to me that balsa would be a better material for that area. The new plan is to do the outer edges, say one inch, with balsa so that I can finish it smoothly without something like fiberglass filler or body filler. The center will be a honeycomb so that it is still strong yet reasonably light. I am concerned about the area where the t-top connects under the center beam. On my plastic t-tops the plastic was worn down there from vibration against the center bar. I will probably recommend a layer of felt or suede there on the center bar to avoid wear. I feel that is best because an insert on the carbon there will look out of place and draw attention.

As for cores, I am not planning to use aluminum nomex, if anything I would use kevlar. For reference, the issue with carbon fiber and metals, especially aluminum, is galvanic corrosion. It can be resolved to an extent by placing a layer of fiberglass over the metal before applying the carbon. Also, how serious are you guys and what do you expect as a finished part? Right now if I were to make the mold/tooling (working on that), and go with a honeycomb core, finished to a t-bar it could well end up being $700/pair. If I go with something more simple, just making the panels for example, it wolud be cheaper so I'm trying to find a balance between cost, people's expectations, and what level of tooling I want to make (ie tooling for a one off, 0-5, 5-10, >10), so on. That and the place I do my carbon work has parts of an 8 foot chassis mold taking up a very large amount of space. Hoods take more space than I have for tooling, and I don't like seaming carbon any more than you do so I'm going to avoid that. Will anyone who is serious about T-tops please PM or e-mail me with expectations (ie panels vs. finished) and what they think is a reasonable cost for it. I'm trying to make sure this doesn't turn out like selling things on craigslist where 900 people respond and maybe one of them is actually going to buy what ever you are selling.

jccaclimber

Oh, and an update at my end. I'm still trying to get the plate to a perfect smoothness and finish. There are minor ridges around the edge, wear marks, scratches, and so on that I'm filling and polishing out. I've done the first layer, sanded it down, and applied the second layer.

loneroad

iTrader: (3)

dont forget the convertible guys. Id love to have a cf trunk lid and spoiler. I have a spare for the mold.

el_muerte

speaking of convertibles... it'd be pretty sweet to do something like this
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Chevrolet-Camaro_...3A1|240%3A1318

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Just hafta find one of those 2-seater conversions. I think they were stopped being made, around 89 or 90, when GM started making convertibles in-house, so they wouldn't license the aftermarket conversions anymore.

el_muerte

Yeah, but I don't think it'd be too difficult to sorta replicate/design something similar based on the pictures... back end looks mostly flat, thinkin a person could mock it up with plywood and foam, and maybe do the top based on a normal hardtop with a couple hinge points? All I know is, I like the look of a 2-seater Camaro, and that one doesn't just look like someone ripped out their back seats...

jccaclimber

That is pretty cool looking. You would need more than the top though, you would also need the things to fill in behind the seats. I wonder if that could be made to work with a normal convertible top or if that needs to be replaced as well. I think if you were to do that from scratch you would want to make the trunk flip up separately from the top cover, more like a C5 corvette.

loneroad

iTrader: (3)

Ive looked around an noone that ive found makes a aftermarket trunk lid, let alone a c/f one.They weigh 65- 70 lbs. It would be nice to shed a few pounds there. Not to mention all of the ones ive seen rust up under the lip by the spoiler.you could even mold the spoiler in as one piece.

DrummerDad

And theres the problem, really. I would have had to have about 10-12 hoods promised, to cover the cost of the molds. And as much as Id love a set of CF t-tops, I cant promise Ill buy them. With the way things are right now, Id love to buy them, but Ive also got a house that needs some work.

My thought was to shoot for trying to pay the mold off in 10 parts, and then after that the hoods arent bad. Problem with hoods is, not everyone wants or is willing to pay for a $1500 hood. And when they do, 1 or 2 want a cowl induction, 1 or 2 want stock, half are camaros, half are firebirds, etc... Its no wonder noone makes them.

Im thinking about just having a friend help me, and Just build what I want. Interior parts, hood, nose cone, whatever.

Oh, and here are 2 sites, I got a search on google, for honeycomb cores. Good luck with a response, unless you have a business email. Ive been down that road.

http://www.plascore.com/

http://nida-core.com/english/nidaprod_honeycombs.htm

I like the idea of a thicker core in the middle, made from honeycomb, with thinner edges. I would be interested in a set of the t-tops, but Im not in a position to promise to buy a set, unfortunatley. As for the t-bar (I guess, the strip in between the t-tops) rubbing the t-top, the problem I see, is after the bar rubs through the resin, the carbon will start to wear on the bar. I would cover mine with an anti-chaffing tape, or a rivet tape. Its what we use, again in aviation, to keep the carbon fiber parts from rubbing heads off of the rivets.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Funny you mention that Im in the work now of pricing up doing a mold and one off (well 2) trunk lid for my vert and one for a buddy in Cali. Then IM moving on to do the tonneau cover. and a few other parts.

You nailed it right on the head dude. To many people want to many different options added/deleted from the Hoods. If I had a dime of every email I got saying people wanted something..... well you know how the saying goes.

The easy part is making the stuff. The HARD part is making your initial investment back with crossing your fingers people who say they want the parts actually buy the part.

Few pictures of fiberglass body my buddy has mold of and pop these out of.
http://www.cecoatings.com/crods/

Same guy Im doing molds with for my vert parts.

jccaclimber

Sorry for being so slow. Lots of stuff has been taking my time lately. On that note, I figured I'd share so here's one of the recent projects. It's the first from the mold so it's not perfect, and it's still got the hazy mold release paste on it, but you get the idea. The black stuff naturally is carbon, and the red side is a hybrid weave with carbon going one direction and red kevlar going the other. It's much nicer looking in the sunlight.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

Take your time, don't rush anything. Life is short, but we still have until 2012 lol.

P.S. What is that of?

jccaclimber

It's a faired bicycle. You throw a person in there, set them pedaling, and pretty soon they're going 45-50 mph on a flat (no wind). The people who are better at it end up going 70-80mph, but they don't have to turn like this does. The frame you see there was designed for a comfortable 15 ft turning radius, and should be capable of 10 ft radius turn. I just wished my car turned that fast.