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The trip odometer is one of the most common engineering disasters on thirdgen cars (symptoms of failure are listed below); however, the fix is both simple and inexpensive--my cost $.09 at the local hardware store.
To access the speedo, remove the black bezel. Once that's removed, look in the rectangles that house the e-brake light, check engine light, etc., and you'll note a, I believe, 10 mm nut on each side of the cluster housing. Move the seat back all the way. Drop the lower dash panel for access to the speedo cable and its clip (this clip holds the cable to the speedo head). A long-shanked, flat-bladded screw driver is perfect to trip the clip. A flash light/trouble light is indispensible. Once the cable is free, so is the cluster. Lowering the steering wheel, and/or dropping the steering column a fraction will help in the removal but is not necessary. To protect from scratches use a bit of masking tape on the steering column.
Note the speedo cable clip.
JamesC
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__________________ "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, / Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
The fix is simple: Without taking the speedo head apart, turn it around to the backside and "wire up." I cut 5 inches of wire, made a noose at both ends (I bent the wire to form a "U", placed one jaw of a needle nose at the bottom of the "U" and used pliers to twist the wire around the needle jaw to form the nooses). I placed the nooses over the axels, then twisted the slack in the center of the 5 inches to tighten the whole business. Push in on the reset while you're doing this so that the axel will be seated--just makes things easier. The wire, of course, replaces the J clips and seats the axel so that it is stationary. By the way, I tried 22-guage wire first, but it was too heavy and difficult to work with. I also attempted cauter keys, but I couldn't get the axel to seat to my satisfaction. I ended up using a very flexible piece of solid core, $.09 a foot. The fix is not as neat looking as I would have prefered, but the odometer functions like new, and frankly I don't think I'll ever have further problems with it.
I want a 145 speedo. I pegged the speedo on my car the other day (120mph) and am guessing I was going about 123 by the time I was about done. If I were to get one..would I be able to somehow use my current odometer because I want to keep the mileage reading accurate.
You can swap mileage rolls. There's a brown clip, just below my index finger, that holds the mileage roll in place. If you remove/loosen the two screws that keep the speedo face in place, push in the reset button, and let the face hang free, you can pull that clip and work the roll out between the face and the housing. I wouldn't advise removing the speedo needle. I accomplished this swap when I went from an 85 to 110.
I'll make this a sticky (and copy to FAQ forum). I ask that people not respond other than specifics about the trip odometer fix.
One question I have: Does reset still work "normally"? Not sure how it could, unless you're leaving some slack in there.
Another "fix" I recall hearing about is to make "J" hooks out of a paperclip, drill (small) holes in the plastic where the originals broke off, and Superglue the J's in the holes.
The axel is supposed to be stationary (as it would necessarily have to be with the original J clips in place--the trip odometer fails because those clips break and allow the axel to float). When pushed, the reset buttom not only disengages the drive gear, I assume, but also clears the mileage, then engages the drive gear again when released. It's the reset mechanism that moves, not the axel. At any rate, everything works smoothly and as it should. Maybe that's as clear as mud.
Okay, it's been a few years since I had mine apart and played with it. As I remembered it, the J's existed so the axle could move during reset. But, you may be right (or mine is different...).
Sorry if this question has already been answered, but what exactly is this supposed to fix? My trip odometer seems to be running fine even after 155,000 miles.
I'm surprised to learn that a car with that many miles still has a functioning trip. I'd guess that the majority of cars with mechanical speedos have failed trip odometers: The inherent weakness of the J clips make them highly susceptable to breakage. For example, I first had an 85 speedo, whose trip was already broken. I replaced with a free 110 (the trip worked and though I used it infrequently and gently when I did use it, it still went south). Finally, the trip in the 145 I just purchased was gone. IROCZDAVE reguarly sells speedos, and most all are advertised with repaired trips.
Anyway, my general opinion, I guess, is that unless you never use the trip, eventually it will fail.
One more pic to demonstrate what occurs when one or both J clips break. Note the misalignment on the left, which is where the break is (Double that problem when both clips give up the ghost). The method I suggest simply reseats that lower axel into its proper position.
The question may become this: Is this a problem on just Camaros? I have had a ton of chicken based cars and never had the problem. I've seen it on quite a few Camaros however. Is the unit the same between the cars, and if not would the chicken unit fit if it is more durable? (Or maybe I've been very lucky.)
I have no idea if Camaro and Firebird speedo guts are identical or not--I'd find differences difficuilt to believe, but this is GM we're discussing. Interesting question. Anyone?
I finally got to mine a couple of weeks ago. I had never seen one that wasn't broken, so I didn't understand the function of the "J's". Seeing they used the same thing on the main odometer axle (although a lot beefier) finally got the concept through to me.
The "J's" allow the odometer assembly to be slid into the slot and snapped into position. In other words, ease of assembly. Once I got that in my head, I finally figured out how to snug it up per the instructions above to get it to work.
any better pics dont see in the pics what j clips...my trip odemoter resets but goes upto like 56miles or something and quits turning.....is this the problem on my 145 sped
Check the fourth pic above. Almost straight up from the screwdriver tip, on the third axel (the one in line with my index finger), you'll see a "J" clip fixing the axel in place. The one you see there is much beefer than the ones on the lower axel that typically break. If your trip won't resent, partially resets, jumps, tics or pops, it's because the axel isn't seated, meaning one or both of the lower J clips is broken or substantially weakened, eventually leading to a break.
hey jamesc let me ask ya something i'm not very good with eletrical part but i see u know some about speedo i got a 87 ta tpi for parts and most of the stuff will be going into my 84 el camino the elky has a t5 from my last 3rd gen (84 camaro) until i dont get the tpi in the eky is any way i can rum the speedo? the ta has a auto tranny and its eletronic speed sensor how do i wire it to the speedo ? is it possible? what whould i need? and how to do ?
Originally posted by DuronClocker I want a 145 speedo. I pegged the speedo on my car the other day (120mph) and am guessing I was going about 123 by the time I was about done. If I were to get one..would I be able to somehow use my current odometer because I want to keep the mileage reading accurate.
actually, i know from experience, if you pull the guage cluster and undo the little computer attatched the speedo and swap that on to your current speedo it will then be a 140MPH speedo. you will of course also need to swap the faceplate/guage face. i broke my spiffy 145MPH speedo and tested this theory. mine works great.
__________________ Member/Moderator @ www.cascadecrew.org
1986 base BIRD LB8_2.8L_V6 17.4@76MPH. mods:
4th-gen console, 2002 cavalier front seats, 140MPH speedo, completly de-cluttered engine bay, lots of "free" mods. complete front suspension and stearing rebuild. Custom Cold Air Intake.
1988 Trans Am GTA 5.7L TPI L98 14.3@97MPH. mods:
base model spoiler, 4th gen console, 4th gen charcol leather seats, free mods, 89+ rear disc brakes, SLP shorty headers and Y-pipe, full 3" hooker catback, WCT-5 trannsmission, centerforce dual friction clutch. COMING SOON: 4th gen doorhandles, custom transsmisssion crossmember, SFCs, 98+ front brakes.
Some advice for those wishing to attmept this fix on an earlier (82-?) "dual needle" speedometer: you don't have j-clips. The speedo in my pace car is one of the silly old half-mph/half-kmph guages, with the trip lever in the upper-left hand part of the gauge, and the trip tumbler above the mileage tumbler.
I finally got around to pulling my cluster last weekend and was excited for the prospect of actually having a working trip odometer again.
Unfortunately, the trip in my speedo is of a different design than that described above for the 145s, and after a few hours of messing with it I couldn't get it fixed. Heck, I was lucky enough to get it put back together w/o breaking anything. I think that the problem was with the tumbler itself; as the actual assembly was held in place well, and the spring and lever were in relatively good condition. There is a fair amount of resistance when attempting to reset the trip, and the tenth roller never quite lined up correctly with all of the other digits. Oh well, save up for a 145 I guess.
awesome thread. ive got mine fixed exactly how it reads above. only step i didnt follow......... i didnt pull the cluster, i just pulle dout the speedo from the front. u said not to remove the needle, but i had to. now im trying to get my cruise fixed so i can get the needle perfect.
when replacing the speedo head into a new cluster what needs to go with it. i have a 145 speedo in a bad cluster, and an 85 in a good cluster. should i keep the three wires into that black thing on the cluster or with the speedo. how about the yellow thing? thanks a lot.
The yellow box is the VSS (vehicle speed sensor). It must have functioned correctly on your old cluster, so leave it and its wiring and simply swap the speedo heads.
Does this apply to the new style speedo's? I just got a new 145mph cluster for my 91' RS and the trip reset doesn't work. I am sending it to a speedo shop to be set to the current mileage on the car, do you think he would be able to fix it?
Hello PPl, i know this threat is old, But i recently did this fix. However I didn't use the wire, i used 4 - 4" cable ties.. I tied one cable tie around each post in the "locked" position then i tied the two other together and tightened then all down and cut the exceess, hopefuly this helps someone who din't feel like buying the wire(i had the threaded, not solid core) wire or simply wants another way. Hope this helps!!!!
I held it in place with something then used JB weld, it isn't 100%, and once in awhile it doesn't turn when it's supposed to, or reset properly. I reset it every time I fill it up(which is every time I buy gas) Seems to be working ok.
My trip odometor post fall apart. You know the end of it that you actually twist, it fell off the other day and now I can't get it to stay on. Is there another part that I need? I seem to recall a very tiny piece that went into the center of it that may have helped to hold it in, but since I have never taken this off on purpose, I don't know for sure. Anyway, does anyone know more about these, or maybe where I can get one? I'll have to check the junk yards around town to see, but other than that, I wouldn't know where to start.
By the way, I tried 22-guage wire first, but it was too heavy and difficult to work with. I also attempted cauter keys, but I couldn't get the axel to seat to my satisfaction. I ended up with 18-guage solid core, $.09 a foot. The fix is not as neat looking as I would have prefered, but the odometer functions like new, and frankly I don't think I'll ever have further problems with it.
JamesC
That's for the write up. Just so you know 18 awg is heavier than 22 awg. The smaller the number the bigger the wire.
Kinda like sandpaper and golf.
True, of course. Note the edit above. At this late date, I can't be sure of exactly what I used (a single piece of 18, I think, would have been too difficult to work with, so perhaps it was a single piece of multi wire that equalled 18). At any rate, any piece of flexible solid core will work well.
JamesC
__________________ "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, / Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
The yellow box is the VSS (vehicle speed sensor). It must have functioned correctly on your old cluster, so leave it and its wiring and simply swap the speedo heads.
JamesC
JamesC,
you mentioned the yellow box being the VSS on the back of the cluster. Is this standard placement on all Camaros? Mine is an 89 IROC-Z LO3. My Speedo just failed on me and now I'm driving with the speedometer on my GPS! I was just wondering so I can test my VSS and speedo. The fact that the speedo was working that morning, and I get into my car that afternoon and now it don't work, leads me to thinking that the VSS just blew.
I a friend told me that it was on the side of the transmission. Is this another peice of the VSS system?
Thanks, and one more thing. What is the best way to get my gauge cluster out. I tried to pull it out before, but something, like the cable or wire harness has no slack and I can't pull the cluster out because of this. And there's not much room to get my hand behind there and undo it.
Not only does my speedo not work anymore, my odometer quit turning, so I was going to try your quick fix with the wire on both my trip and odometer.
the camaro
