Jason E

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1983-...item5ae1fe8dcb

I think everyone here knows what side of the fence I fall on, with respect to this argument...

Jbsteven

I love time capsules.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

There's been plenty of examples like that or better before. They've been on the rise overall for a while even in lousy economic times. They'll be worth more than most could ever imagine someday, just like the cars that came before them.

Pingonk

Like the Model T, over 15 million made it sold for less than 1k new, but look at them now, they are rare and expensive selling for $30,000-$60,000. Even taking inflation into consideration that is pretty good.

ErikWS6

Yup, soon enough 2nd Gens will be on the downswing, and all the old 3rd Gens will be fetching big bucks!

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Looks like someone is going to get raped on that car... again... It'd be nice if instead of starting a new topic about a car that's already been discussed, if the reply was just added to one of the already existing threads.

Anyway, that car isn't original, or a time capsule, or any of the BS in the Ebay add. It's a low (no?) mileage car that was completely TRASHED before someone gave it a quickie restoration and started running it through the auction machine. It's a polished turd, perfect for cheating wealthy bidders out of their money. It's not a very good example of what most thirdgens are worth. It looks good in the pics, and it'll surely sell for more then it's worth, but that doesn't mean the same thing will happen with any other thirdgen.

If anything, a real unrestored survivor should be worth a lot more. But this car with it's current bid is still the exception, and not the rule.

camarosrock1989

iTrader: (1)

Really a sweet ride! Worth every penny!

FryeDaddy

iTrader: (1)

Omg sick...

eseibel67

Is this the same one that some high school kids painted 3 times?

florida_gators

iTrader: (2)

Is it just me or is the front bumper very misaligned where it meets the hood. Much bigger gap on the passenger side??? Bumper looks to be sinking too? Can't tell if it's the lighting or the car.

91 Droptop

If that car got a "quickie restoration" it is one of the best I have seen in a long time. If not original it recieved a nice restoration, everything looks to be in original condition again. Price is always waranted by what people are willing to pay. You can spend 5, 10 or 25 K for a third-gen convertible, just depends on what you want and your budget. People are starting to collect these more now than ever, no where near the first gens, but holding their own.

BigBadGTA

this is not the same car that was the highschool kids messed with. I saw that one in person at BJ and this one is different and in nicer shape. The one the kids ****ed with didnt have any plastic in the interior either and the radio was missing. with a big hole there

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

This car's been through the ringer so many times, and is just another F-body people keep trying to flip for high prices, like the red '90 1LE that I've seen for sale about 4 times since it was originally sold.

Birdstheword

resto isnt done , no caps on rims !!!!!!!!!

JT

iTrader: (1)

Actually, it is the same car. Note the last VIN digits of 215601 on the eBay auction linked in Jason's post and the same 215601 VIN shown on the window sticker in the thread where this car was first discovered. Link below is to John's post that he copied of the eBay ad at the time:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...755-post8.html

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...758-post9.html

camarosrock1989

iTrader: (1)

Crazy, well they did a great restore.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

They should've at least found a new rear bumper to replace that warped one.

Jason E

I know this car has been discussed 3 million times now...that isn't the point. I'm just sick of hearing people on this board say over and over again these cars "aren't worth anything, never will be, made millions of them" blah blah blah.

Good examples are worth money right now, apparently just not to many vocal people on this, the enthusiast's, board.

Go figure...

sloick

this car is a great example of why you can no trust what you are told. that car went through hell to get where it is today.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

The cars definitely have value, and I'd happily pay $15k-$20k for the right original car.

However, I also think there's a bit of artificial inflation at play here; a lot of these high dollar cars, for whatever reason, show up for sale numerous consecutive times trying to be flipped. This one, the red '90 1LE, the LiveAid car (though that may be the same person each time), etc. For whatever reason nobody is buying these cars to collect, they are buying them with the intention of flipping them, which is hard to do given the high prices they are being acquired for to begin with.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

This car 'sold' on Ebay about a month ago, and then miraculously reappeared. I am a little suspicious if there is an actual buyer for this car, or someone is playing games with the auction to make it look like it is going to sell. I have a feeling we will see that car on Ebay from the same seller again. If it doesn't wind up on Ebay again, it will reappear somewhere else. The bottom line is the car is being misrepresented, and the potential buyers know it due to sites like TGO and Early Third Gen.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Those are not Turbocasts. They are Turbofins - no bowling ball hubcaps.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

It IS the same car that kids worked on and vandalized. The plastic was added during the "restoration". The price is artificially high because people think the mileage and condition are legit. It keeps coming back up like a bad penny because it surely has it's issues under the fresh paint. We're talking about a car that sat outside for years with a busted windshield. It's not worth the current bid, at all. It keeps getting presented as a survivor when it's really just a car that was on life support and got a quickie resto.

Touareg

I have seen this on ebay 5 times when it had 30 miles now its up to 240. I you want a laugh look at it with a white hatch no windshield and other issues. Its worth something but not what it sells for, I've been into cars a long time I would say it should fetch 8 to 9 thousand restored and that includes replacing missing parts (covers for screws in hatch, rear cover for trunk, screw for rear view mirror, front air dam, remove 5.0 LITER HO decals) and a better paint job, its not a good paint job just look at the front bumper. It costs a lot to restore a car, even one with low miles in good shape.

navy02ws6

WOW, man I'll bet the buyer would be PISSED if he knew the whole story and had seen the before pictures. Like they say though, buyer beware...wouldn't have guessed it on a 200 mile car though!

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Goodness, I can't believe that's the same car! I am happy to see it restored and looking how it should though, except for them not replacing the bumpers and the cheap tires.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Looks good in the pics, but if it was represented as an original cream puff, when it's past is more checkered, that's not very cool.

But on Jason's larger point, someone did drop almost $25K for it. That's early 2nd gen Trans Am or Z/28 money.

Wonder what I could get for my '83 CFI?

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

Or the current owner was bidding it up and it didn't really sell.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Yep- we will see it again.

eseibel67

Eventually, some 44 year old guy with a spare $25k to blow, that swore he would own one of these things when he was in grade 10, will buy it without doing any research.

He will discover this website AFTER the cheque clears and he will post pics to amaze all of you with his time capsule.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

It's probably already happened once or twice... After the buyer finds out his "time capsule" is actually a POS, it'll probably be back on ebay or back at barret jackson.

KMK454

They'll surely go up in price and are worth more than the average TGO poster thinks, but anybody buying a thirdgen as an "investment" needs a finance class.

okfoz

The car is "Over Restored" honestly. There are some incorrect items on it like the wrong Hood scoop decals, the wrong Hood decal, the missing hubcaps, are an under-restoration, but the paint is too nice...

EDIT: The Wheels appear to be the original finned ones without the hubcap.

I have been an advocate for some time saying that third gens are appreciating.

Of course the $10396.00 window sticker price in 1983 is now $23,581.18 in 2011 Inflation adjusted money. More or less the winner essentially paid what the car was new. http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

John

scottmoyer

Not so sure I believe these calculators. I ran my car for 1987 at a price of $21019 and in came back at over $41k today. That makes my fully loaded IROC-Z comparable to a loaded Camaro SS today. Now, here's the problem. If you take a $17,500 brand new Buick Grand National in 1987, it should compare to a new "Grand National" at $34k in 2011. If GM still made the Grand National, I can guarantee that it would be selling for more than $34k today.

I also took a fully optioned (1SD with 350, Bose, Posi, TTops, J65) '89 IROC-Z that stickered for $19,600, and it came in at only $35,700 in today's market. That would be the sticker price. The only options this 89 didn't seem to have was G92 and leather. That might compare with a Camaro 1SS today, but I'm not sure where you'd find a new 1SS stickering for that with all of these options. I just did the "Build Your Own" on Chevy's website and selected a 1SS and loaded it with options that could be standard. I didn't include a painted engine cover or aluminized fuel door or expensive rims. I added options that most people might consider "fully loaded" and I came in at a price of $40,500. Obviously, the dollar ain't worth what it used to be!!!

cIaRmOaCrZo

did anyone else notice the locking fuel door?....lol im 99% positive that is not factory as i have NEVER seen any 3rdgen have one. but there is that 1% that someone on here is gonna say "mine came with that too" and make me look like an idiot

Drew

iTrader: (58)

The locking fuel door was an option on early cars. It was standard on the S/E if I remember correctly. I've seen about a dozen of them in the last 20 years.

The values are going up, but it's going to take a long time to reach the point that's appropriate, where it will start getting expensive to acquire any thirdgen.

cIaRmOaCrZo

damn lol, good thing i said 99%

L695speed

Mine is one of them with the locking fuel door. Factory original til I tore it down.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Saying that you don't trust a calculator just because it gave you a projected 2011 value for a 1987 Grand National lower than that of a 1987 IROC based on speculation of what a non-existent 2011 GN "should/would" sell for 25 years later makes no sense. The 1987 GN sold for less than the 1987 Camaro, so why would you expect an inflation adjustment to give 2011 results that are any different? Of course the adjusted GN value is going to be cheaper than the adjusted Camaro value, since the GN sold for less to begin with.

Even if they did sell new GNs still, even at a higher price than the 2011 $34k you got based on the inflation calculator, that wouldn't change the fact that the 1987 GN sold for what would be $34k 2011 dollars. The inflation adjusted values are 100% independent of and unrelated to what a new GN or a new Camaro 1SS would or does sell for.

Inflation isn't the sole reason car prices increase, so you can't expect a direct linear correlation between what a car sold for 25 years ago and what the new model sells for today, and then say the historical data-based calculator is wrong because GM chose to jack the prices up on the new cars and the 2011 price doesn't fit the mold of what the inflated 1987 price is.

Perhaps the dollar isn't worth what it used to be, or perhaps GM thinks they are building a car that's much better for this given time frame than what they thought the Camaros were worth in 1987.

scottmoyer

I was simply stating that the calculators are not a good "rule of thumb" for value. Another example would be a $4k dollar '69 Z28. It shows an inflation value of a little over $24k. My scenario was not stating that the calculator itself is incorrect, but that using it to determine value is, well, not that good. That was in response to John saying the people paid pretty much what the car was worth when new.

As for the Grand National example, it was to show that if GM still made a GN, I can guarantee that it wouldn't be a $34k car today when comparing it to inflation values.

okfoz

Keep in mind that the inflation calculator only takes certain parts of the economy (actually whatever the govt seems to be fit to add to it) and then makes a determination of inflation. IT used to be that everything was taken into consideration, from Food, to consumer goods, energy, housing, etc. More recently they have taken things like Food and energy off of the list.

Keep in mind that it is not an exact science. There are variables, and not everything increases in price at the same rate. Oil for example goes up and down daily, so they have more or less eliminated Energy from the list, which interestingly has gone way up, and would skew their index. They have also taken Food off the list, considering that they are subsidizing Farmers to Grow Corn for Ethanol, and paying other farmers not to farm their land, it is no wonder that they really cant include that either. They still using Housing, and probably an average price for a new car, and things like TV's & Computers which interestingly always come down in price as there is a double of technology every 18 months.

Ultimately inflation is a means for a government to actually tax you more, without you knowing it. The govt is the only entity that actually benefits from inflation. Thus they print more and more money. Keep in mind a dollar is similar to having stock in a company, if there is only one, then it is worth a lot of money, as it represents the entire company. If there are Two then each one is only worth half of that company. Now that we have Trillions of dollars in circulation, the value of each note is worth less, approaching worthless ( A trillion dollars stacked on top each other flat, will go around the world about 1.3 times. (not side by side, or end to end, but laid flat) )

I don't know why I went into all of that, but it is more or less the standard that everyone uses.

The most expensive Chevy from year to year Not including Corvette: (Base Prices)
39 $883
46 $1712 (inflation on $883 = $1238.74)
50 $1994 (inflation on $1712 = $2115.86)
55 $2262 (inflation on $1994 = $2217.39)
60 $2996 (inflation on $2262 = $2498.33
65 $3655 (inflation on $2996 = $3188.31)
70 $3886 (inflation on $3655 = $4502.03)
75 $5351 (inflation on $3886 = $5388.32)
80 $7536 (inflation on $5351 = $8195.58)
85 $11739 (Camaro) (inflation on $7536 = $9840.70)
90 $20195 (Camaro) (inflation on $11739 = $14259.18)
95 $23095 (Camaro) (inflation on $20195 = $23547.96)
99 $27850 (Camaro) inflation on $23095 = $25246.90)

Keep in mind since there was no model that ran from 1939 thru 1999, I could not make a real comparison.. Also consider that some models IE the 1985 Camaro was a hard top, and the 1990 Camaro was a convertible, it may or may not be a real accurate comparison, however it is an indication to what people are willing to spend. The truth is from 1985 - 1999 the most expensive Car Chevrolet offered was the Top Camaro (except the Corvette) It is no wonder that sales floundered. I find it hard to believe that an Impala would be less expensive to produce in 1995 than a Camaro, but there it is.

John

KMK454

Inflation only tells us the difference in the value of our money over time, and has nothing to do with true market value of a classic car. It's not a good metric to compare old cars to new cars with, but it is certainly fun.

New cars are more expensive for many reasons: inflation, increased safety and environmental regulations, and feature bloat. For safety, think of how much extra weight things like airbags, structural bracing, advanced traction/skid/braking control systems, and other government mandated devices add to the weight of a car. My 1991 only has one airbag; prior to 1990, no thirdgen had airbags. The extent of emissions and environmental regulations, both on the final product and on the production/R&D process are much greater today than they were years ago. Feature bloat is another issue; I recently bought a base-model, ZERO OPTION 2011 Chevy Equinox for the family. It has bluetooth, AC/heat, power windows/locks, trip computer, AUX audio input, great sounding multi-speaker system, multi-adjustable seats (front and rear), countless airbags, OnStar, XM radio, visors with lights and mirrors, and I'm sure I'm forgetting something. My thirdgen left the factory with no floormats.

majobis

iTrader: (3)

Here's another; this time a Camaro

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-...ht_2033wt_1004