Jason E

Trying to put a trade-in value on...

'87 GTA
-72k miles
-1 owner
-Flame red/tan cloth
-L98 hardtop
-4 new tires
-Beautiful original paint, clean interior (slight fade on edges of drivers seat, slight fade on carpet...otherwise flawless except for a destroyed rear spoiler)
-Everything works
-No dings, dents, scratches or rust...

Guy wants to buy a new Wrangler from me. Yes, I'm debating on buying it. Yes, I need help. Its a 20k mile condition car with 72k. Does the mileage make it unattractive? Or does the condition make the odometer irrelevant? I went to the owner's house to look at it, in a dark garage. Admittedly, I haven't even heard it run yet. The guy is also trading in an 06 Saab (I know...I know...). If this GTA is as well manicured overall as his Saab, its probably virtually brand-new with its running condition.

I know we don't like to project what cars are worth on here...but what the hell is it realistically worth?? Remember, on a trade I should be able to offer something under retail and get the car. Thoughts are appreciated....and no, likely I do not need 3 third gen Trans Ams, so I have no idea what would have to give...

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Dude, you're WAY too hung up on mileage. I don't give a !@#$ what the odometer says, what does the car look like? If the car is clean and drives like a new car, who cares how far it's traveled? A car can have no mileage and still be trashed, or missing parts, or fouled up paint.

Value? 72k miles, close to perfect condition, I'd say the price should be at the high end of the scale for a 87 L98 GTA. Maybe $6-10k, to be at the absolute high end it's got to run, drive, and look like a brand new car with few signs of typical wear. Deduct for flaws, and you'll probably be somewhere around the $8k mark. Of course no one seems to be paying those kind of prices, so take that for what it's worth.

I'd pass unless the price and condition is too good to pass up. 87 isn't a particularly fast year. It's a GTA without the stupid steering wheel radio controls, but MAF, iron caliper rear discs, single cat, etc... Not to mention it's the middle T/A body, which I personally like, but is also really common. Blah. Maybe if it were black, gunmetal gray, or an 89-92...

JT

iTrader: (1)

The 1987 GTA is different as you could get one that is pretty stripped in options. You could get one with no power windows, no power locks, no A/C, no tilt, etc. Stuff that you would assume a GTA would automatically have (and normally did), could be deleted on the 1987 GTA. I'm guessing this GTA in question is not one of those examples?

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Guys buying a new wrangler from you? Do you own a dealership or something? I was interested in the brand new wranglers myself lol, so I was just curious.

As far as the car, it sounds very much like a car I've seen, and given your location it's very well possible. I've seen a flame red GTA in absolutely stunning condition at a local service shop (chuck's auto, windsor locks CT) over in my parts. It's been there more than once. Almost positive it was an 87 and had the tan interior. An older gentleman owned it and from what I remember it was all power options. Not that it's the same car, but if by chance it is, I would say it's worth at least a healthy $7K if not a little more. Car is gorgeous in person. If you speak to the owner, ask him if thats where he's had it serviced. I'm really curious now if it's the car! Can't be that many MINT flame red GTA's around these parts lol.

SDTransAM

iTrader: (5)

Really, for an '87 that's pretty low miles. And if it's in 20k mile condition, thats not bad. My Camaro has 89k miles and I was excited to find one even that low.

Jason E

Drew,
I pretty much expected that response from you Indeed, I am hung up on mileage...it cannot be helped. After the issues I've had with all my 100k+ mile third gens, I'm permanently hooked.

With that said, this car is gorgeous...but an estimate of $6-10k is a helluva wide estimate...I get what you're saying, though...

JT,
You could get stripped 87 GTAs? No kidding. This one at least has PW&L, power antenna...I didn't see if it had power mirrors, I just sorta assumed? Not a paddle mirror car.

whitedevil,
I'm the General Sales Manager for Brown Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/Ram in Greenfield MA...about 1 hour north of Hartford right off 91. I highly doubt this is the same car...it has a 2006 inspection sticker and is an hour from you. Yes, he's looking at a new Wrangler with one of my salespeople. If you want one too, PM me The new Pentastar V6 makes them a blast to drive, FINALLY...


I talked to my wife quick...she doesn't care. I guess it boils down to what he will take for it. Realistically, my debate is do I sell my blue TA for this car? If I got it cheap enough, and sold my blue TA for enough, I can buy the GTA and have enough money left to tune it up, change the fluids, and do the $1,000-1,500 in paintwork my 88 TA needs to be perfect.

The only downside of all this is the fact that I know EXACTLY what I have in my 86, and with the new paint its a really pretty car with 40k miles less on it. At the same point, its a peanut cammed LB9...it'll never be as fun to drive as this GTA. Decisions, decisions...

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Uh oh my butt. Too bad we don't live closer, Jason. We could start a support group. I've already noticed myself casually perusing ebay and CL again.

Jason E

Did you ever actually STOP???

We could have our own third gen reunion all by ourselves! If we add in my dad, if I buy this we can take some pics of 3 third gen TAs, 4 third gen Camaros, 2 4th gen Camaros and a 4th gen Formula. I think that could get us in a magazine somewhere, right????

cerberus

well heck whats your ACV on it? WIll your used car department get pissed? Do it man, I used to manage Frank Parra Jeep here in Dallas when I was going through school. I still have my 5 star gold ring and diamonds. Thats how I bought my first viper.

I am a huge person about mileage too. To me Mileage counts ALONG with condition.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Ummmmmmmm.........................................no.


But I have tried to widen my perusals to non-3rd gens........

Jason E

1) Still determing ACV That's the issue
2) I am the used car manager I'm also the new car manager, the finance manager, wholesale manager, floor manager, uhm, uh...we sell 50 cars a month and I like low overhead Needless to say, I'm busy...we are likely a little smaller than a Dallas Jeep dealer!
3) Mileage has been a big deal for me since my 103k mile '89 Formula and my 119k mile '91 RS puked parts all over Western MA, several years apart. I get in the three I have now, turn the key, and have not replaced a single mechanical part in any of them in a combined 9k miles. I couldn't go 900 miles on my 1 RS without fixing something, it seemed...at this point, though, the new owner is probably gonna have a damn reliable car, as its all new

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I'm not going to change your mind, but you should consider that there's more involved than just mileage.

$6-10k is a "helluva wide estimate". But then you're asking the value of a car on a forum with a wide scope, without posting any pictures, from your possibly biased viewpoint. Not to mention that what it's really worth, and what it'd sell for, are different things than what it'll probably actually sell for. Also you're talking about trade in, and value, which are two different things. Obviously, you're not going to get a consensus of the value to the penny.

Know when to just say no. Just say no.

Jason E

I don't know if I know how to, Drew!!!

oldtimer

I sell new and used cars for a living, too. What would the customer like for the car? I'd hit him at $3500 for the car, and see what happens. He might take a swing at you, or he might be flattered at the offer for an ancient Firebird. The real question is what are the odds of someone giving him more, right now, in today's economy, for the car? You know the story. Everyone wants the car, but no one has the ***** or $ to step up and by the car NOW, IN CASH. Keep in mind that later, LT1 cars are now wholesaling at those prices, and beater LS1 cars ain't much better in today's climate. Hit him with a number, and see what happens. Thanks, Counterman.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Well, when you find yourself asking if you should buy something, if you really need it, and the logical answer is no... Maybe it's time to just enjoy what you already have? This is free advice from someone who had six thirdgens at the same time, not all that long ago.

At least try something different. I went out on a limb and bought a Mustang, it doesn't fit my collection, and it's a real POS, but it's so much more fun to just do something different...

cerberus

YUP good advice, I have had hangar full of projects and not ao ne ever finished. Pissed money away never to see a single one finished.

Still now I look at CL and Ebay and find my self self ready to buy......but I know I will regret it.

This being said All I need to finish my car is to install the decal package on it.

hummmm!

Jason E

1) Seeing as how I don't even need one car, as I have a demo, no cars are truly needed I know what you mean, though.

2) In terms of enjoying what I already have, I have to honestly say...I really do. With the 86 finished, and the 88 needing a little finishing, I have to say I really love the 3 I have. Just didn't expect a GTA to cross my path this afternoon, 3 minutes from where I work.

3) I've been thinking of something different as of late. I have a love/hate thng with C4s, and I think G bodies might be too slow...but both are catching my eye more and more. Ever since I was a kid, I've always dreamed of a twin to the '89 Vette vert Motor Trend did a long-term test on when new. It was a 6 speed in polo green with a tan top and tan leather. Guess what I found last night, with under 50k on it, for about $12k?

My wife told me just this morning I need to branch out more...this was when I was drooling over the 2,400 mile Formula. In 14 years of owning vehicles, nothing has caught my eye like third and fourth gens...except MAYBE a 5.0 LX notch

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Try eating the same thing, 3 times a day, everyday, and see how long it takes before you get bored. I honestly think you're already bored and that's why you keep looking for a new car.

Substitute anything for that meal, make it a favorite snack, the woman you sleep with, the clothes you wear, whatever. Anything taken to excess gets old, and sometimes you don't even notice it until you're sick of your favorite thing in the world and it takes years before you start to miss it. Seriously.

scottmoyer

I'll give you the $4k you wanted for the 86 this past summer!!

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Somebody bring down the BAN HAMMER on this guy immediately!!!

Thats ok though. I had a mustang for a while as well. It was a 2008 shelby GT. Great car, very well built, quick....just not me. And at the $40K I paid for it, I could def live easier without the payments lol.

And Jason, I would hate to see the 86 go because I have always been in love with that blue and silver color combo. I always liked your car, but when you got it painted it blew me away! I would hold onto it if I were you. Granted it is only a 305, but do we really buy these cars and keep them all original to go fast?? LOL, sarcasm goes with that statement. At least it's the LB9 which was the best option for 86.

And as far as the jeep thing, I honestly think thats going to be my next daily driver. I've been looking at them quite a bit and ever since the body was re-designed in 07, the only thing keeping me from buying one was that POS V6 they came with. From the reviews I've been hearing now about the pentastar motor, it's a win win deal now. I had a 1990 wrangler as well as a 2005 rocky mountain edition so I'm a bit of a jeep fan along with 3rd gens. Now that I know you work at a dealership (and are the sales manager, hehe) I'll DEF keep you in mind when the time comes. I'm also 20 minutes north of hartford so I wouldn't be surprised if your only about 45 mins or less from me. Anyways, best of luck with your hard decision!

KMK454

If you want it and can afford having that many cars, then why not?

And I'll raise Scott's offer to $4,100.

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

Can you get me some pictures and what it will take to get it if you pass? I would love a clean Flame Red GTA for a Ls1 swap. It's either I buy a clean 3rd gen body or my Fox is getting the LsX swap.

Jason E

Well, after sleeping on it for a few...

Something Drew said actually struck a nerve, because its kinda what I've been thinking for awhile. After being consistently irritated with my RS for the 5 years I owned it, and being bummed the 86 looked so lousy, I've got the 86 looking beautiful...and the most fun third gen I've ever owned (88 TA) has replaced the RS. I guess what I'm saying is, combined with the IROC, I really AM enjoying my third gens. Changing it up just to get a 350, in the end, doesn't feel worth it.

And actually, I was on the Wheels forum here last night, and discovered Classic Industries is reproducing Firehawk wheels?? Hehehehe...my wife is going to buy me a set for my birthday in April, and a set of those with red accents will be going on my 88 TA, while the 86 is going to get the black 16" crosslace wheels with brand-new tires off the 88. I needed to buy new tires for the 86 next year anyway, so why not spend more and hatch this idea? The only downside is I will have 4 re-done 15" turbo wheels collecting dust, but what the hell...

Red Firehawk wheels on a red/silver TA is going to be epic Before I re-did my 15s for the Norwood event, I had considered buying charcoal crosslaces for the 86. The nice thing is, bone-stock appearance for 2 cars will be simply 2 wheel swaps away...

Thanks for the thoughts, everyone...and whitedevil, I'll hook you up whenever. Just send me a PM I agree, if I wanted something actually FAST, I would simply buy an LT1/LS1 4th gen, or a built third gen. For me, I love the original look and feel of a car. Outside of wheels, a cat back and stereos, I really don't get further into modding cars. I like to be able to enhance something, but be able to return it to 100% stock with a small amount of effort.

I can totally appreciate *****-out modified cars...I guess it just isn't my thing. Every time I go too far modding, I end up not liking the way it rides...how loud it is...stuff breaks...etc. I work 60+ hours a week...getting in, turning the key, and having things simply WORK without frustration is huge for me.

Jason E

Nice try, both of you I got a whole lot more in it now than that...probably $9,000 the way it sits. But, I have to say, I've never owned a $9,000 car this beautiful or this much fun to drive.

I can afford to have them...I simply cannot justify having 3 '80s Trans Ams

By the way, I love your signature's recent addition...I grew up with 2 siamese cats

Aaron91RS

iTrader: (2)

So after me telling you to put crosslace wheels on the 86 and you telling me everyone has them and you want to be different with the boring ugly snowflakes it came with, you now do a 180* and do just when I said except it cost you who knows how much to refinish those undesirable snowkflakes in between?

Then after telling us all how you like the stock look you are putting firehawk wheels on the 88.

You're confusing.

cerberus

Arent we all? blondes brunettes red heads, choices choices

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Ehh... Ditch the crosslace 16's and get yourself some nice (heavy) 84-87 convex 16's. I hated them until I owned a set. Nothing like the largest 20-slot Pontiac wheel ever made. Unfortunately they're only "right" for 84-87 Firebirds.







They look bad *** when polished up, you hardly ever see them, and they're period correct for your 86... Just saying.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I should have scrolled down a little further...

Jason E

I'm totally fine with having re-done the wheels...they look pretty friggen cool, if you ask me. What I'm starting not to like about them is I cannot find a good quality performance tire in a 235/60/15 OEM size. There are several in 215/65/15, but why the hell do I want a narrower tire on it? Years ago, 215s looked chunky to me..now I hate them.

Combine that with the fact that I had no idea Firehawk wheels were being reproduced, and I have 4 nearly-mint crosslaces with fresh rubber, and that's the plan I hatched. In a way, Firehawk wheels ARE kinda like OEM wheels. I indeed do like stock cars, but it isn't like changing wheels is a significant mod that cannot be undone in 20 minutes

If I'm confusing, so be it, I guess Were it not for the 86 needed fresh rubber, I wouldn't bother storing the 15s. But when the crosslaces have new tires, and the 15s don't?

Jason E

Admittedly, that's a wheel I've never considered. As OEM wheels go, I've always been partial to the crosslaces. In theory, crosslaces are 86-correct...just charcoal, not black like mine are.

Were it not for the fact I was trying to keep the 86 stock for Norwood, and the fact that I already had a TA with crosslace wheels (why have 2 cars that looks almost identical???), I probably wouldn't have bothered with the OEM 15s. But now, I like them, short of the tire issue. If I don't buy the Firehawk wheels for the 88, at least this gives me another idea for the 86...just don't know if, for other than shows, I want to keep the 15s on it given the tire issue. I don't think the money to refinish them was in vain, though, as they can be kept for shows.

I'd really like to buy another set of nice IROC wheels at some point for road use, and keep my flawless original ones for shows, and remount my Gatorbacks on them.

Jason444

iTrader: (6)

I'm with Drew on this. Those 20 slots are one of the best looking wheels on a third gen Pontiac. I had a buddy that had them new on an '87 that was Flame Red Metallic with silver on the bottom. The car would almost take your breath after a Sunday wax and detail.

80schild

iTrader: (5)

I agree with Drew on the wheels. If you keep the 15's at least put some white letter tires on them.

And FWIW, I have a flame red '87 L98 GTA, and I'd rather have your blue '86, even though it does have a 305.

Jason E

Why's that? The color? Just curious...

If I do keep the 15s, without a doubt it will get white letters for an even more "period" look...Radial TAs, without a doubt. I wish I could still get Comp TAs...especially white lettered ones

80schild

iTrader: (5)

The solid color of the GTA gets boring after awhile. I just think TA's look better with the silver or gold gfx.

There's not many wheel options with a GTA either, you pretty much have to keep the gold crosslaces so they'll match the emblems.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I have a set of the heavy 16x8 wheels off of a 87 formula.. Cheap PM me if interested.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

Sounds like this is pretty much settled but I'll throw some data in here for information's sake.

I was in the market for a TA this summer after my 91 got smashed by a tree in a storm. I was looking at good condition higher end GTAs almost exclusively. I ended up paying $6500 for a 85k mile '89 GTA with a L98. The engine was just rebuilt due to an overheating mishap during a parade. otherwise the car is all original. White with gray leather, power everything. Only missing options is bose CD player and block heater.

The only things wrong with the car are the rear spoiler doing it's usual split and crack, the Lexan T-tops had a crack, there is a spot on the very lower part of the drivers door gfx where the door and rocker gfx rubbed the paint, and there is a small shallow dent about the size of a pea in the top of each fender where something must have tipped over onto the car. The dents are not photographable and it's tough to see them in natural light outside.

Otherwise the car is mechanically perfect minus the power antenna being permenantly up. The AC blows cold and the steering wheel buttons still work! LOL It runs, shifts, stops, and handles beautifully and I love the car. I use it as a summer daily.

I feel that is an honest assesment of the car. I didnt get a screamin deal, but I didn't get ripped off either. I looked at many other cars and this car was the best combination of condition and price I could find. Others I found that were nicer were north of 8k, some in lesser condition but still very nice were down around 5.5k.

Here are pix of the car for reference.

camarosrock1989

iTrader: (1)

Well said DREW!