BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

Long story on this one......
I need some value advice form all of our Pontiac experts out there.....

BARN FIND - (well Climate controlled garage find is more accurate),,,,

1992 Formula 5.7 - T-Top - White - Black cloth - Black mesh wheels - 17,900 miles - original owner - NO UNDERCOATING - fully documented - 100% original
(build sheet, original window sticker, factory invoice) purchased new in 1992 by a older woman - Driven lightly for several years and then parked in a climate controlled
garage - has not been run in possibly 10 years or more - it looks BRAND NEW - (it's in a very dry climate in western state)

It is currently not running, but it cranks, just no start - because fuel is at least several years old - will need a complete fuel system O/H

If I am correct, this is a 1 of 41 built (as optioned)....

WHAT WOULD YOU PAY FOR IT ??

burnout88

It’s a cool car. Has all the right performance options on it with the ttops. Did you check for spark? Do you have fuel pressure at the rail when cranking?

with the car not running it’s a hard sell to the general public I would low ball it and offer 8k.

LeonardS

I’m guessing it’s a Multec injector issue for starters. Also looks like a can of starting fluid on the fender.......the cylinders should be good and dry!

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

It will need a complete fuel system O/H for sure. I'd drop the tank, remove the pump, replace the injectors, flush the lines, etc, etc.

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

and NO low ballers for this one......

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Injs and fuel pump are gummed up and possibly the regulator too. May be able to flush it all with solvents to remove to the gummed up stuff. (have done several with surprising results)

Very nice car but until it is running it won't fetch top dollar, still should bring a decent number.

I'd shoot for 10k to original sticker price, may be a bit low to some but that's what i'm thinking.

burnout88

Here’s the thing the Firebirds are not low mileage IROCs. They are just not going to bring top dollar. No matter how nice the condition. Also it’s refrigerator white.
Heres what kills the value on the car
1. It does not run. If the tank needs to be dropped and the lines flushed, pump changed that is not exactly an easy or cheap job.
2. it’s not an IROC, it’s a bird.
3. It’s not a desirable color or interior
4. It’s a later model bird. The birds that do pull some money tend to be the 87 to 90 cars.

I would not pay anything in the teens for this car. I am at 8k for this car as it sits right now. If the car was black, red, blue, or yellow i would give it more value. But the car is a hard sell on the open market. It just is.

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

I'm not a 91-92 nose guy, but if i handed over 10k-12k and towed that home I would not be upset.

LOL @ "it’s not an IROC, it’s a bird" Camaro guys...

Where's the stock wheels, though?

JT

iTrader: (1)

That is the stock wheels. PW7 "GTA" wheels in black (41P) as listed on the buildsheet. Those wheels became available on the Formula to allow the 350 and T-Tops.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Collector market value is unreasonably soft on that car. It's a much more unique car than any Iroc, but it's also not the textbook combination that normies are looking for. It's a bargain for a buyer, sucks for the seller. It just is what it is, the market is soft on Firebirds.

Cool that it's a t-top 350 car, but sucks that it's a t-top 350 car. The options make it more rare, but damn every year older I get the less interested I am in T-tops. If they're Lexan, at least they're dark enough to not have the glare issues, and cooking under glass issues, and they'd be light enough to not be a pain to deal with. But then Lexan gets crazed and looks like garbage. With glass I'd leave the inserts in all the time for the wannabe hard top experience, but then you gotta deal with the stupid things every time the tops come out. Yeah, I think I'll just stick to my hardtops and leave all that squeeky, flexy flyer, BS for the long hair punk kids.

Once you own a convertible, t-tops are lame as hell. I'm sorry t-top people, but all that futzing around taking em out and stowing them in the diaper bag. Leaks. Squeeks. Baking on a hot day. I think if I've gotta wear a hat, I'd at least want to have the entire top down instead of some Bandit-esque call back to a forgotten era. Are T-tops in 2020 the Calvin peeing on a Ford blue oval sticker? Or maybe the equivalent of Yosemite Sam "BACK OFF" mud flaps? I don't know, they just say something to me, like I want the open air experience but only half of it. Like leave my hair long in the back, but cut it short in the front... </hater>

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

One Man's opinion only ;

I do agree with thtanner that the 91/92 nose has never been my favorite , I know Pontiac was going for the Bird looking thing but it looks too much like a Parakeet's overgrown beak

Not running , no stick shift , not my favorite nose , not my favorite color , , , VS low miles , great overall condition , 350 engine , known history with documentation , and NO claybar residue ......

As a buyer I would be comfortable in the neighborhood of $10K

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

Mr. Wizard - I always enjoy your entertaining wisdom about our beloved 3rd gens, we think along the same lines but you have much more wit than I do
As is usually the case, I agree with your thoughts on the t-tops (no disrespect to all you t-top guys out there) I appreciate them but I am more of a "hard top" guy myself.
I admit, if it was a choice between a t-top and a convertible, I would take the vert.

RKeats

92' was the only year to have the black valve covers and they look sweet. Also, I know gm was kind of sloppy with their paint, but there's over spray on the rubber hood things on the upper rad support, and all the fender screws are painted over as well. Did they do that stuff from factory? Sweet car regardless, but Formula's, banshee cars especially, almost never make it in to the teens. I'd pay 10K CAD and be happy, but I doubt many others will even look at it

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

Man, I gotta say, you guys are one tuff group.....I think we should rename the forum.....Third Gen Camaro
An all original, fully documented RARE (1 of 41) 3rd gen with under 18,000 miles from the original owner and you guys are saying $10,000 ??......all I can say is I'm amazed
Sure, it's not running but that is no issue if you invest a little time....it aint no big deal.....it's not like it's been sitting outside all these years and the engine is seized up.
Drop the tank, install a new pump (maybe), flush the lines, replace the injectors, etc......no problems!

IMO.... you all complain that the 3rd gen values are too low.....well this is the reason......I think the next one that complains about low values of 3rd gens needs to look in the mirror to see the reason why......
and YES, I DONT get it......if it was a Camaro with the letters IROC on the side that would add another $5,000 ??? .....man, the world we live in......

BTW, I am a 3rd gen fan and owner and appreciate BOTH Firebirds & Camaros.....I am not biased....no reason to be that way !!

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

BizJetTech , I'm sorry if I've offended you , but I want you to know that I AM biased in my third gen preferences . With no disrespect intended toward anyone because all of our tastes in what we like about third gens are different , I wouldn't buy a Camaro of any year , IROC or not , and I only like the look of the mid to late 80s birds ( why I own one ) , which I believe were the pinnacle years for the design . The Camaro's more blunt looking front end coupled with no pop up headlights kinda kills the look for me while I know others love the look , kudos to GM for creating such different looks on the same platform . As to price ? Yes again I understand people wanting to see the value of these cars skyrocket , especially people who own pristine low mileage examples , but I'd rather see them priced still where they are attainable to those of us who were the original target audience , guys who like a car with racy looks but weren't able to pony up the big Corvette money . As such , as "The poor Man's Corvette" , should the prices of our cars really be any all that much higher than those of the same year Corvettes themselves ?

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

Orangebird - No offense taken, you make some good points.
BTW, my personal preference is 87-90 Formulas.....

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

And to give the Devil his due , when I rethink the price that first popped into my mind and how little ten thousand dollars is actually worth these days , I can see in the neighborhood of more like $12K being fair to both the buyer and seller . Like you said , the Lady stored it well all those years , and such responsible stewardship should be and deserves to be somewhat rewarded in the sale .

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

ksr

I like t-tops. I had two Formulas with t-tops, both 1990s. Neither one ever leaked a drop of rain, not once, even at 20 years old. There was a little bit of noise, but not much. When you know what you're doing it's takes a couple of minutes, tops, to stow them. Yeah, it's not a easy and quick as a convertible, but not exactly difficult either. If you want to block the sun with the tops in, just put in the inserts, although my dark glass on my t-tops provided good shade.

For me, there were some definite advantages to t-tops vs. a convertible.

Top down, convertibles look better than just about anything, and third gens makes beautiful convertibles. But top up, few convertible look that good.

Visibility. I had a '98 Trans Am convertible. Top down, super fun car. Top up, basically flying blind. Massive blind spots. There were certain angles, like when merging on to certain highways from a ramp, where with certain road angles you just could not see what was coming either by looking or from the side view mirrors. You had to stick your head out the window. Lane changes were an adventure. It seriously impacted the fun of the car and was the reason I kept it only 3.5 years. Had I bought a hard top that year, I'd have kept it for a very long time.

For this car, I never was big on the 1991-2 nose (but don't dislike it), but I'd offer $10K but could be talked up a significant amount. All original, low miles. Rare wheels for that model. T-tops with a 350 also unusual. It would need some prep, but I think plenty worth it. And I love white 3rd gens.

One of my biggest issues with the 1991-2 nose, outside of the fact that it always looks like an tacked-on afterthought, is that the majority of them I see didn't fit all that well. There were uneven gaps along the top of most of them where it meets the metal. This one looks quite good.

ksr

I've preferred Firebird to Camaros, in most model years. But I like both. I tend to be a contrarian so maybe that played into my preferring the Pontiac, but I honestly like the styling better on the front and rear clips, and also I think the Firebird dash was way nicer.

But the thing about IROCs I really don't get. Not the car, but the appeal of the name. Is a decal actually worth that much to people? Back when these things were being made, I actually liked the name "Z-28" better and was glad to see it return after Chevy lost the IROC name in 1991.

Is the market actually better for a 1990 IROC vs. a 1991 Z-28?

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

I think that Formula is an absolute killer car. I prefer the 91-92 nose and rear spoiler, and the crosslace wheels. 5.7 and t tops is a plus....although I prefer 3 pedals. I guess I see the cars value around $16,500 in running condition. So, if you are willing to get it running yourself, and not have to pay a shop to do the labor......I agree with $12k to $13k to be a target purchase price if it were me trying to buy it in it's current state. The car definately has a lot going for it! But, I also agree that the birds just aren't quite bringing the money that the IROC'S are.

But, if I was looking for a Formula.....it doesn't really get much better than this one. It's a super great car!

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

I completely agree.....
Thanks

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

I would say, yes.....definitely. I am not biased because I own one, but yes, I watch the market very closely and the IROC'S do bring the top money when it comes to third gens.

ksr

I don't doubt you. Just seems bizarre to me. Basically it's a decal.

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

You got that right !!!

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

$13500 if it ran and $10k as is imo

chazman

iTrader: (4)

This is a super cool car. Like Drew said, the market is soft for Firebirds. It's always tempting to get a non running car like this, because you perceive it to be a bargain and are sure it will only take a few dollars and a couple hours to get it running. But....you never know. So don't overpay upfront.

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

I'd stop throwing around the '1 of 41' around like it means.. anything. It doesn't really. When people start to quote 'as built' numbers it just feels like an attempt to artificially raise value.

And nobody here is the fault of third gen value being too low. Has nothing to do with that. We're giving you accurate prices on the current market, not driving the prices down.

This is a 10-12k car max on the current market. That's all it will support at this time.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

It's the wheels, the body kit, pre-'90 non airbag steering wheel, etc.

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

Having owned some of the most rare 1980's cars and having bought and sold 30 to 40 of them over a 35 year time period,
I respectfully disagree.....limited production numbers usually always have a bearing on price.
Your telling me that 2 of the same model / year cars, optioned similarly with the same mileage and same
overall condition where for one they made 20,000 and the other they made 35 will bring the same $$$ - No way!

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

Honestly, there are very few options/set of options that are worth saying that.

In this instance, the 1 of 41 really does.. nothing. If this car was another 350 car with a different set of options in the exact same condition it would be worth.. the exact same. Even the fact it's T-Top isn't bringing value up in the real world market. That may change in future, but as of now, ehhhhhh

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

I am with you 100%

Values always follow supply/demand....no matter what the product is. Guitars, paintings, albums, cars, it doesn't matter. Anything that is considered collectible

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

- got it.....we will agree to disagree !!

thtanner

iTrader: (1)

So you think if you had another 18k mile 350 Formula car, hard top, maybe standard Formula wheels, it would be worth measurably less? It wouldn't.

Facts over feelings. Currently, the market does not give value to unimportant option sets on third gen Firebirds. Specific options like 1LE start to bring in the money, not 1 in 41 "as optioned" cars.

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

Agreed!

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

"measurably" less......no......"less"......yes

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

If I was selling two Formulas, 18k miles, 5.7 cars, and 1 had t tops and crosslace wheels, and the other was a hard top with standard formula wheels, I think it is safe to say I'd ask more for the t top car with the crosslace wheels.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Same.

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

irvan

iTrader: (1)

Has the owner priced the car to you and you are wanting to buy it or are you helping the owner try to establish value?

ksr

There was a minor refresh in 1991 when the IROC name was gone and it became Z-28 again,but basically the same car. To me, IROC was just a set of taped graphics. I don't mean that as an insult. I like the car, but the mystique of decals is pretty well lost on me. Z-28 became IROC-Z became Z-28. What's in a name in this case? My favorite Firebirds are 1987-1990 Formulas. If someone bought one and deleted the Formula graphics, it would have been worth no less to me.

That 1990 steering wheel was horrible. I'd have gladly deleted the airbag from my Formula if I could have.

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

The owner set the price and offered the car to me. It is not being actively marketed.
I am considering buying it.
I know what it's worth but was curious as to what other member opinions were for this car.

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

It also has to do with no new Firebitd/Trans Ams/Formulas in todays new car market. That is why imo they are lower priced.

flippermtc

iTrader: (1)

Bizjet,
I think you need to remember the difficulty you had selling your GTA last year. IMHO that car was more attractive, more desirable and it was in excellent running condition. Until this Formy is running it will prove to be a difficult sell for the price point.

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

Funny you should bring that car up, I have a chance to buy that one back.....Yes, it's a nice one!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

With all due respect , there aren't any Tucker Torpedos or Auburn Boat tail Speedsters on the new car market either , and look at the prices on those .....

I don't think the lack of newer models holds back the price , conversely , I think having no new ones being made contributes more to a sense of rarity . And when cars that are 1 of 41 built are being considered it sure does sound like rarity must mean something to someone

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

But there is a difference in tuckers and firebirds.

Ask new plain jane new camaros and most never heard of a pontiac firebird.

kentuckyKITT

iTrader: (4)

Hmm, well as a current Formula owner, 1 of 257 produced as optioned, I've got mine priced at $25,000.00. Does that help? That's the not for sale price, but if you walked up to me and handed me 25k, well, I'd let it go, but not a penny less. Hey, if you want one like mine bad enough, you'd pay it right? Go try to find another one like mine in the same or even better condition for sale. Betcha can't!!!! It's worth mentioning though that it's not really a sought after car, but there might be that one person out there who had one identical to mine "back in the day" and they just have to have it! It all comes down to what someone is willing to pay really. I'd sell my KITT car for $100,000.00 to the first rich person that wants it. Again, the not for sale price!

Unlike most people, when I'm looking to buy a thirdgen these days, I'm not concerned with "how many were made," I'm concerned with how many are left. So what if 54,000 were made, if only 42 are left on the entire planet, guess what, only 42 people can have one! Doesn't really matter how many were made now does it? That's how I see it. Even though that's a hard thing to determine, I have 3 thirdgens and I'm always the ONLY one on the road any day of the week in this area and that includes Camaro. Once in a blue moon, I"ll see a Camaro while In my truck, but never a Firebird. All thirdgens are rare here, so If a guy wants one, he's got to work for it. It's not like a 2005 Impala which I can find 350 in a 4 mile radius with whatever options you want and all owners would sell at the drop of a hat for pennies.

BIRD91ZRAG

iTrader: (1)

My favorite phrase is... Rare does not equate to desireable. When I first heard the description, 8K popped into my head. The only white Pontiac thirdgen that is desireable is the TTA..

My understanding was there were not any 5.7 T-Top cars built in 91-92.. I tried to buy a new 91 Z but wanted the 5.7 and T-tops and was told no dice.

I agree the 91-92 cars don't bring the money an 87-90 will. I always thought the Batman front end was kinda odd looking.

JT

iTrader: (1)

It really was a mixed run of what was and wasn't available regarding the T-Top and 350 on the ThirdGens as it changed. For example, you could get that on the 1987 Camaro side but not on the 1987 Firebird side (non-export).

This Pontiac Distribution, from GTASourcePage, shows the announcement for the 1991-1992 Formula getting the option to have T-Tops and the 350 but you had to get the lightweight PW7 wheels.