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History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
Any doubts that it could just be the angle of that photo go out the window when you watch the video or look at the other pics, the fender is obviously bowed from being lifted wrong. Then you get to the photo of the car on the lift with the arms under the pinch welds. The irony is even the nitwits that iced the bottom of the car so lovingly with 2,000 gallons of undercoating lifted the car by the frame rails, but the detail oriented crew looking to cash in on the car damaged it by not even looking into where to lift the car.
Other than that, lots of typical snide comments and Ebay/BJ style wankery on that page, but if it saves one person from lifting a thirdgen wrong... It can serve as a public service announcement.
I was just looking at this car on a Facebook post, and laughed at the same picture. I hear the best way to advertise a low mile car is to take pictures of you damaging it
OMG - it was ruined by the 2,000 gallons of undercoating........what a mess!
IMO, it's been severely devalued because of this....I'd pass on this one for sure
Gotta admit, that blue doesn't do much for me on a GTA. That colour on just a Trans Am though with the black GTA's and no gold anywhere wheeeeew. Green gets my tent pitched more than anything though
Gotta admit, that blue doesn't do much for me on a GTA.
It's not a great photo. A person could clean it up a lot, and it'd look much better in different lighting. It's so bright in that shot that it washes out the depth of the color. IMO. The emblems being stuck in the wrong spots doesnt help things...
It's not a great photo. A person could clean it up a lot, and it'd look much better in different lighting. It's so bright in that shot that it washes out the depth of the color. IMO. The emblems being stuck in the wrong spots doesnt help things...
Sagging headliner, ac isnt working according to the owner, radio is locked, hatch pull down doesnt work, owner replaced a lot of things in the ad mentioned, no wonder its cheap ill keep walking away.
All of the issues you just mentioned are not really issues specific to this car. Many people have had the rear hatch pull down break. Contact Lon at Top Down Solutions and get the replacement parts. Headliners fail over time. Less than $200 and you can have it recovered, along with the sail panels and the visors. The AC will be a big cost because the R4 compressor probably blew apart internally like so many have. I thought I saw where he said the radio unlocks when the car is started.
Yeah, in the grand scope, it’s a nice car and worth something. It has the same little issues that any of these cars get over time.
Someone would have to check the Carfax and look at the car to make sure it wasn’t repainted because it was hit... many were repainted because of clearcoat failure or just because someone wanted flawless paint. There are sad repaints out there though that are far from proper restoration. Orange peel and claybar residue everywhere!
You’d have to make sure they didn’t paint over rust on the underside.. Some people just think they’re making it look “newer” kinda like how interior paint can freshen up a room!
I don’t think this is probably a bad car... I did think those lift marks were a little funny!
At the risk of being called a moron, can I ask what the issue is with undercoating and the hate for it?
I've never had a car undercoated. My Dad always said that it wasn't worth it and I trusted him, but he also rarely kept a car for more than a year. Is it damaging?
Sagging headliner, ac isnt working according to the owner, radio is locked, hatch pull down doesnt work, owner replaced a lot of things in the ad mentioned, no wonder its cheap ill keep walking away.
Shame that they may have damaged it. Otherwise it looks like a good car. Not a big fan of gray leather, but nice seats. Interior looks great. Console may not even be warped, a real rarity.
Some of these issues seem odd for a car that was hardly driven. My car had 32K when I bought it and the headliner looks like it just left the factory. Locked radio? Press the "mute" button (SWC may be inoperable).
Sitting idle isn't the best thing for a car, but I also wouldn't think the a/c would fail. Sounds a bit suspicious.
At the risk of being called a moron, can I ask what the issue is with undercoating and the hate for it?
I've never had a car undercoated. My Dad always said that it wasn't worth it and I trusted him, but he also rarely kept a car for more than a year. Is it damaging?
undercoating doesn’t really bother me all that much unless it looks like someone went to town on it to try and hide something, or make it look shinier and newer than it did before... I’m sure someone has undercoated a flawless underside before just to make it “look” newer which is really stupid...
My car was undercoated when it was purchased new. There were dealer undercoated and rustproofed cars. I have something from the dealer about the undercoating that came with a box of receipts from the car. It doesn’t have lift marks in it and you can still see the factory paint and primer underneath... It looks like 30 year old undercoating.. I wasn’t super thrilled about that, but it was an Illinois car and there’s so many other parts under there that are so new looking I can get past it. I’ve seen lower mile cars with no undercoating but a little crustier than mine.
if it looks like someone just rattle-canned the underside black a couple days ago, yeah, that kinda sucks...
some people are picky about that stuff... I’m more picky about the options and color combinations and how the car feels/drives because I want one I like cruising around... To each their own...
I doubt that's any issue. That radio locks anytime it loses battery power. You can see a battery disconnect on the negative battery cable. As mentioned above, simply press the Mute button on the steering wheel to unlock it.
I’ve had lots of issues with AC in these cars too... My 26k mile 87 IROC stopped blowing cold at around 40k miles back in the 90s... recharged it and it worked for years and then stopped working for good...
My 88 A/C is not blowing as cold as it did years ago... it’s still R12... My friend who’s a mechanic said to get some R12 and he’ll check for leaks and hope for the best... Compressor comes on and everything looks/sounds fine...
If that doesn’t work someday I’ll do the 134A upgrade I guess... I almost never use the A/C though.. Only goes out on top down weather... It still sort of works for now..
My 1998 Tahoe AC died at around 110k... they told me it would be over $2k to fix because it had rear AC and they couldn’t find a leak under the hood... it would charge for a week and die... They said they’d have to pull the whole interior apart...
Never been a fan of GM A/C... meanwhile 1984 Honda Civics with 400k miles have freezing cold A/C... Always bothered me...
undercoating doesn’t really bother me all that much unless it looks like someone went to town on it to try and hide something, or make it look shinier and newer than it did before... I’m sure someone has undercoated a flawless underside before just to make it “look” newer which is really stupid...
My car was undercoated when it was purchased new. There were dealer undercoated and rustproofed cars. I have something from the dealer about the undercoating that came with a box of receipts from the car. It doesn’t have lift marks in it and you can still see the factory paint and primer underneath... It looks like 30 year old undercoating.. I wasn’t super thrilled about that, but it was an Illinois car and there’s so many other parts under there that are so new looking I can get past it. I’ve seen lower mile cars with no undercoating but a little crustier than mine.
if it looks like someone just rattle-canned the underside black a couple days ago, yeah, that kinda sucks...
some people are picky about that stuff... I’m more picky about the options and color combinations and how the car feels/drives because I want one I like cruising around... To each their own...
Thanks. I'm like you, my main concern is appearance and driving it around. Nothing much makes you feel better than a "thumbs up" for your car from other drivers. Like you said, people look for different things. I do like originality but I'm not a fanatic about it (and may get mine painted at some point). Talk about investment and potential future value or rarity don't mean a lot to me. I've only put about 4,300 miles on mine in two years, but for some people that's a decade or more of driving a 3rd gen. 4,300 miles in two years where I live, on an island where everything you do is a short drive away, is actually a lot of miles. If I didn't work from home, I'd probably commute in it quite a bit. If I was still living in Pittsburgh, I'd probably have logged 15K or more by now.
As for performance, I love a fast car. But unless you're going to invest serious time and money, that's a dead issue with 3rd gens, and I'm no mechanic. They handle well, but they aren't fast by modern standards. My ATS Coupe with it's little 2.0 engine would blow the doors off my GTA. (2.0 engine with 272 HP vs. 225 from my GTA's 5.7. Progress.)
All of the issues you just mentioned are not really issues specific to this car.
The bigger issue to me is that the seller hasn't fixed the issues before trying to sell the car. If it's so cheap and easy to fix that the buyer should be OK with it, the seller should fix it. Just like "no title, but you can get one easy"
Originally Posted by ksr
At the risk of being called a moron, can I ask what the issue is with undercoating and the hate for it? Is it damaging?
1) It's ugly and messy. Like this car, with all that undercoating on the fuel filter, when you go to change it, you're going to have black crap all over your hands, and that's after you clean the undercoating off the fittings so your wrenches will fit.
2) Damaging... Yes. They didn't leave the factory undercoated. It's like someone drove the car down a road covered in fresh tar and it splashed all over everything. Sometimes it comes off easily, in which case it's just a tedious disgusting mess getting it all off. In worse cases it doesn't come off. If the people doing the undercoating were extra thorough, they may have drilled holes all around the door jambs into the rockers, etc and pumped that crap inside the panels, then plugged the holes with rubber plugs, which leave places for water and salt to get trapped, which lead to... You guessed it, rust. All that tar under the car can stay sticky, so it tends to pick up dirt and garbage from the road, which makes it even more ugly. It tends to plug the natural drain openings in the lower body that the factory provided for moisture to drain, then you get water pooling inside the body panels and... You guessed it, rust. It doesn't really prevent rust, in some cases it encourages it.
So in short, rust proofing is just trashy and stupid. A huge pain in the *** if you ever want the bottom of the car to look clean, or you ever have to work on the car. Kind of like if you just let the car get the normal surface rust that the undercoating is capable of preventing.
Thanks. I'm like you, my main concern is appearance and driving it around. Nothing much makes you feel better than a "thumbs up" for your car from other drivers...
Yeah, I couldn’t buy a 5k mile car with a perfect underside if I didn’t like the color, interior, options, etc...
If I was deciding between two nearly identical cars it could be the tie-breaker though..
Getting the car painted went really well for me and really boosted my happiness level exponentially... If you get it properly restored and done right, if you ever sell the car it’s not going to hurt you much. It’s easy to document that it’s a professional restoration and not from an accident... Maybe it won’t be a car a collector would ****** up sight unseen, but there are some people that would see that as an improvement and something they don’t have to worry about... I’ve had some good offers if I ever want to sell...
The worst part of it is how long it can take to get the car back!
My Vette has very close to flawless original paint, but next to the IROC, up close in person the IROC really looks outstanding and could be in a Chevy showroom next to a C8... I do like that the Vette is a VERY original meticulously kept car and perfect underneath, but it’s a different kind of happiness...
Yeah, I couldn’t buy a 5k mile car with a perfect underside if I didn’t like the color, interior, options, etc...
If I was deciding between two nearly identical cars it could be the tie-breaker though..
Getting the car painted went really well for me and really boosted my happiness level exponentially... If you get it properly restored and done right, if you ever sell the car it’s not going to hurt you much. It’s easy to document that it’s a professional restoration and not from an accident... Maybe it won’t be a car a collector would ****** up sight unseen, but there are some people that would see that as an improvement and something they don’t have to worry about... I’ve had some good offers if I ever want to sell...
The worst part of it is how long it can take to get the car back!
My Vette has very close to flawless original paint, but next to the IROC, up close in person the IROC really looks outstanding and could be in a Chevy showroom next to a C8... I do like that the Vette is a VERY original meticulously kept car and perfect underneath, but it’s a different kind of happiness...
My GTA still looks good. The paint is still rich and shiny. But, it's 32 years old and there are some scratches in it. I just sort of have this notion of a lime rock green GTA in my head. If I do it, I know it will be expensive to get a really great job, but I'll all spend what it takes if I do pull the trigger on that.
With regard to the post above about undercoating, all good points. Not being much of a self mechanic (pulling apart some interior pieces and maybe some work on electronics is as far as I ever get), I haven't had to deal with the mess you describe. But I do remember often hearing about holes being drilled in cars for undercoating and rustproofing by Ziebart and other outfits. Never liked the sound of that. Any mention of that at a dealer is always an instant and emphatic "no" from me.
Actually the blue GTA that Drew posted starting in #5 and discussed again in #9 was my car.....actually freaked me out a bit when I saw it and I was like, "Hey, that looks like my driveway...it IS my driveway." Yeah, that was one of the cars I wish I would have just hung on to. It was a repaint (factory color though and a good job actually) and yep, they put the emblems back on in the wrong place, but it sure was a beautiful car and I miss it to this day. Sold it back just a few years ago when I dumped several of my cars. Still have several in long term storage, actually spent this morning starting five and driving them around the block before they went back under their covers, but that blue one was one I do regret selling....oh, and I sold it for $3,500.00 and was happy to be done with the nightmare of selling a car with all the time wasters etc. I vowed at that time after I sold off several that I'll just either keep the remaining ones until I drop dead and saddle my kids with them, or give them to a dealer to sell, the icing on the cake was when this fat **** took my 11,000 mile Firehawk (2001) for a ride and beat on it good and then didn't even buy the thing.
I'm still pissed that they lifted it up wrong and jacked up the pinch welds. Way too many mechanics think they are experts, when in reality they can't pour **** out of a boot....
I passed on a super nice black GTA a few years ago because the PO had taken it to Ziebart and they undercoated it. They also drilled holes in the door jambs and the black plugs stuck out in the jambs such that you could see them with the door closed! It turned a beautiful car into a horrible disaster.
My IROC-Z had less than 15k miles on it when my headliner failed. The mileage is not the issue, it's the amount of ozone that impacts the interior. My car was also less than 15k miles when the AC completely went out. The R4 compressors are junk and spew oil from new. When the oil is gone, the bearings go and voila, you need AC work.
They did do a pretty good job on fixing the pinch weld. I think some of you guys are being too critical. The needed repairs are so minor that it shouldn't stop someone from buying it, except for the AC. That should be fixed due to the cost of the repairs, but since it was disclosed, why pay to repair something if someone is willing to buy it regardless.
Undercoating. I'm in the rust belt capital, AKA Michigan. Not a big deal. People are not crawling under the car and looking at the floor pans... I'm just glad mine is clean but it's from West Virginia. I have some undercoating. Did the factory do a partial undercoating?
From what I know factory didn’t do any undercoating, but dealers sold “rust proofing” and “undercoating” add ons. My 88 had dealer undercoating but it looks like they did a pretty good job not just spraying over everything. You can still see the factory color of the floor pans through it... Some of these guys just make the whole underside shiny and black... Except for the lift points... ha ha!
The Van Nuys factory did apply undercoating/ soundproofing material in the wheel wells. It was applied with a spray gun, so the application area may have varied from car to car.
If you go to www.last1992camaro.com which is the site JT set up for me, look at the assembly photos and you can see the material they applied to the wheel wells and behind the rear wheel wells.
The factory coating is more of a rock guard/sound deadening coating, more like a rubbery coating whereas the coating on this GTA is more of the greasy mess variety, with runs and sloppy goobers of asphalt or tar.
Seller should have taken the 20k and run, that was really strong money for that car.
01-15-2020, 08:59 AM
Couldn't be more wrong if you tried.
All that tar under the car can stay sticky, so it tends to pick up dirt and garbage from the road, which makes it even more ugly. It tends to plug the natural drain openings in the lower body that the factory provided for moisture to drain, then you get water pooling inside the body panels and... You guessed it, rust. It doesn't really prevent rust, in some cases it encourages it.
