Slammin

Currently offered on Bring A Trailer, 1987 IROC Z with 3000 miles. B2L 5.7 with auto. With 3 days left bid stands at $22K. I wonder if it will meet reserve.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-28-iroc-z-14/

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

That's almost an identical car to what I had my senior year of high school. Got mine in 1993. Mine was identical for the most part, but I had the auto dim mirror, overhead console, power antenna, and eq radio. I'd love to have that car...

scottmoyer

I'm watching this auction and I'm hoping the pricing goes well over $30k. This car wasn't even properly detailed prior to being listed. There's wax all over the place, the undercarriage is dusty, etc. Lots of people praising this car about what it is, so people are watching these cars.

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

I am thinking mid $30's

chazman

iTrader: (4)

That's a very nice car and will get top money, but could be presented better as Scott mentioned. Take a close look at the driver's mirror, that door has been repainted.


Any of you guys remember my '87 convertible? It has some paint touch ups. I freely disclosed those to the prospective buyer, he appreciated the honesty and paid top dollar for the car.

Slammin

You do have to wonder. The seller posted paint reading from around the car, except for the drivers door.

gt4373

Only Downside Is The Aftermarket Muffler

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Disclose the obvious touch up, get your best price and move on.

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

Nice catch. Yep, the door was clearly painted with the mirror on the car. There's tape lines around the mirror base, and super dry clearcoat under the front of the mirror at the top lip of the door

scottmoyer

With all of the wax buildup on the car, I just saw the white and went with it. But if you look closely, you can see that the clear was very dry when it went on. There's a run in the passenger lock well. Both of these flaws could easily be factory or dealer touch ups before delivery. The driver's door reading is coming in at 140, while the rest of the car is 110-120.

JT

iTrader: (1)

You guys are really sharp on details like that.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Actually, I didn't really look that closely, JT. Someone sent me that pic on FB. Masked off mirrors seem to be a telltale though. You'd think on a car like that with such low miles, they'd remove the mirror, window moldings, etc, to do the job properly.

scottmoyer

Charlie, you'd think that, however, I know a body shop manager that needed to repaint my 2003 Monte Carlo SS. There was solvent popping all over the car. He came from another manufacturer, so the car was dismantled before repaint. My car was his first job as the body shop manager for the local Chevrolet dealership. Chevrolet declined to warranty repayment on 1/2 the job because of the man hours involved in the repaint. He said that he was supposed to tape everything off and repaint, so the complete teardown was more than Chevy would authorize.

This is one area that Ford does a better job than Chevy in the customer service area. My Mustang needed paint work and it was completely torn down under warranty. Total cost was over $8k. In the following pics, you'll see that Ford removed the mirrors, tail lights, center panel, headlights, front and rear windows, etc. You could not tell the car was repainted, except for the custom paint job.

JT

iTrader: (1)

FB. Repaint. chazman. This is feeling a bit eerily familiar to a certain car.

JimRockford

Ive never seen the auto dim mirror. Do you have a photo of what the looks like? I didn’t even know it was an option. Believe it or not Chrysler had auto-dimming rear view mirrors in 1959. (Mirramatic) They had a photoelectric cell in the mirror and when light hit them a solenoid would tip the mirror slightly. I’m assuming this worked the same way.

JimRockford

Just curious,why are you hoping it goes over $30k? It didn’t sound from what you said like it was your car,so I was just wondering. To set a record and raise the value of future low mile third gens?

Im curious now,what’s the highest price a third gen has ever fetched so far? Personally I’m glad they are still affordable. I don’t want them to get nuts to where you can’t drive them anymore

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Lol! Same color,too!

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

Here ya go!

scottmoyer

The reason I want THIS car to sell for over $30k is because I submitted my IROC-Z, which is also an '87 with the 350, TTops and this same color, to bringatrailer and it was rejected. They said they didn't think the '87 IROC-Z would fetch over $30k, even though they had one sell for $32k in September, and it had 23k miles on it.

Neither that other car, or this one, come as well optioned as mine, so I am looking to prove to bringatrailer how wrong they are. They review submissions and ask what your reserve price is. From there, they decide if they think the car will make that reserve. If not, they reject it. Obviously, they are in it for the sale as they get a buyer's premium, so they want all submissions to sell. What I don't understand is this past week, there was a 1972 Chevrolet station wagon that didn't meet reserve at $19,500. Who in their right mind would think the station wagon was worth more than $14k, but...

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

What site did that new, blue 89 IROC-Z sell on that fetched like $55,000 last year....or maybe this past winter? I think the car had like a few hundred miles on it or something. It also had headlight blackouts on it. Does anyone remember that car? I think that's probably the record car so far...

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

Found it....

https://bid.orbitbid.com/lots/171549...cmV2W3dpZF09MQ

scottmoyer

We just need to wait a bit longer and another Dark Red Metallic IROC-Z will pop up. That one is well known for "flash trickery", "clay bar residue" and "bad lighting/reflections". It has been 1.5 years since it's last public sale, so it should be soon and we'll se it again.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

if a 14k mile 92 lx mustang can bring 37,000 then this car should bring over 30,000 no problem ..

JimRockford

Thanks Dagwood for sharing the photo. I’ve never seen one before. What year was that option available? It must not have been popular. I’ve seen tons of third gens over the years in wrecking yards and never once came across that mirror.
I can see the photoelectric cell,it looks like it works exactly the same as the Chrysler mirramatic. Does it make a noise when it dips the mirror?

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

My IROC that had it was an 87. My brother's 87 GTA that he has now, has that mirror, too. I'm pretty sure that I have seen it in an 86 IROC, too. You don't see it very often. I'm not sure how many years it was available. I don't really remember hearing it. Scott Moyer's car has it...maybe he can tell if you can hear it when it changes

I don't think I have ever seen it in a car that didn't have the overhead console

JimRockford

Thanks for explaining the backstory. I understand completely now. You’re right,their logic is screwy.,it makes no sense that they would snub your car but allow the wagon,or the other camaro. I’d rather have a nicer,better optioned vehicle than something where the doors been repainted. Don’t they make money just for a listing fee? What is their buyers premium?

i have to confess I was shocked at how much interest in third gens has risen recently and how much some are bringing. For some reason people seem to love the 80’s right now,even the fm “oldies” stations are playing nothing but 80’s music,which seems weird to me. It used to be 50’s and 60’s music.
I get stopped several times a week by people complimenting me on the Camaro or wanting to buy it or share stories of the one they had. I’ve always thought these were great looking cars for being “modern” cars,and the 80’s definetly wasn’t known for great looking cars. I guess the guys who had them and sold them are trying to buy them back now and the guys who lived through the 80’s but were too young to afford one are buying their dreams now. Anyway,I hope you prove them wrong.

JimRockford

That’s amazing! Look like the people who had faith in these cars and were buying up the clean low mile ones all these years when nobody gave a damn
about them are going to be rewarded. I’ve always felt they were undervalued and carried an underserved stigma. The third gen cars are still sexier than anything gms built since

Slammin

Bring a Trailer Fees:

• Sellers pay a $99 listing fee, with the option to add our Plus photo service for an additional $250. There are no other seller fees on BaT.
• Buyers pay a 5% fee on top of the final sale price to BaT, with a minimum of $250, and capped at $5,000.

Obviously they want to make the sale so they make the most in fees.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Do you guys remember when BaT was simply two guys who would scour CL, eBay, etc., and post cars they found interesting? It's purely a business now.

scottmoyer

Regarding the rear view mirror...There is a sensor on the front of the mirror and one facing the rear. When the front sensor sees darker than the rear facing sensor, a motor inside the mirror, with a little belt drive, adjusts the mirror to the tilt angle. When the rear amount of light matches the front sensor, the mirror auto tilts back to normal. The motor inside does make noise and you can adjust the sensitivity.

Mine wasn't working when I bought my car 20 years ago, and someone from the Michigan Camaro Club gave me two mirrors at the 2002 Camaro SuperFest in Ann Arbor, Michigan. I used the other two broken mirrors as a parts bin to get mine working. It's been running ever since.

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

Scott, what years was that mirror available? I'm thinking 86 and 87, but I don't know for sure

Also, was it only available with the upper console? That's the only way I've seen it so far...

Slammin

According to the Camaro White Book, the Mirror, inside rearview automatic code DD8 was first offered as a stand alone $80.00 option in 1986 Ordered 12,793 times. In 1987 it was still offered, but was part of an option package, RPO ISC.There is no mention of the mirror after 1987.

KMK454

I'd like to see this car get big dollars because of what it would mean for thirdgens in general, but I just can't get excited about this car. Yeah, the condition is mint (assuming there isn't a repaint) and it shows really, really well. But it's a maroon over gray automatic with silver accents.

KMK454

What are the miles on your car?

They probably viewed that 23k mile $32k sale as an outlier, not the new norm. Keep in mind they have a lot of auction data on hand. I'd consider any thirdgen with that mileage and a reserve request north of $25k as a far more likely "reserve not met" situation than a "sale" situation.

Also, there are a lot of other factors at play; BaT can be choosy these days, and their decision to turn yours down may have as much to do with their opinion on your reserve as it does with what other cars they wanted to accept during that submission window.

scottmoyer

My car has 21k miles now. I agree that they can be choosy, and even the perfect car can be turned down, because they own the site and can do what they want. I tried justifying the price, by providing them multiple sales that show similar numbers, but they have the final say. They did say that all of my cars are perfect for their site, but they want me to lower my reserve to an price that guarantees a sale. My objective is not to just sell my cars, but to sell them for a price I think they're worth. I could put them up with a no reserve, to guarantee a sale, but I don't want the risk of it selling for far less than I want. I've seen that happen multiple times, with similar cars, at Mecum and BJ. The first one across the block sells high, and the second car, being in better condition, sells for less. I'm not willing to take that risk.

The mirror was available as part of the 1SC option package in 1987 and you could get it as a standalone option without the console. The reason it's usually seen with the console is due to the option package that included both. The mirror, as a standalone option, was ordered 901 times, in 1987, so there weren't many sold. Unfortunately, GM didn't keep track of how many 1SC option packages were sold.

JimRockford

You’d think they’d pretty much accept any car just to grab the $99 listing fee! A hundred bucks is nothing to sneeze at. It adds up pretty quickly.

JimRockford

You’d think they’d pretty much accept any car just to grab the $99 listing fee! A hundred bucks is nothing to sneeze at. It adds up pretty quickly.
I can understand them having standards and being choosy to some extent,but it’s not like he was offering them a beater.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

So, several years ago when BaT just put their toe in the water with auctions and were still primarily a site that listed cool cars for sale somewhere else. someone sent them a CL ad of my car for sale. They contacted me and I thought cool, BaT will feature my car ad. What they wanted was for me to list it on their new auction with no reserve. I said no thanks and listed it on eBay as a Buy It Now with an option for offers. No reserve is just too risky.

scottmoyer

This is the same situation as with real estate. A local real estate agent suggested that my asking price was too high and suggested that they could sell if I came down $25k. At 3% for that agent, they lose $750. That is, if they get to keep the entire 3% of their side of the sale. I'm out $25k in that scenario. Luckily for me, I decided to sell By Owner, and had multiple offers that drove my sale price higher than my asking price. That doesn't always happen.

Now, BaT wants me to drop my reserve on one of the cars by $4k. That's only a $200 loss to them for a possible guaranteed sale, but again, I'm out over $4k, because of listing fees. I'm not willing to lose on this deal just so they can get a win on their side.

scottmoyer

Ahhh, CRAP! Looks like I upset somebody on BaT. I need to stop trying to help others.

KMK454

You're not "out over $4k" unless your car sells exactly at the BaT-requested reserve. What you're doing is accepting $4k more worth of risk, but if the car is good enough and the right audience is there, bidding could go crazy. It may also not meet the BaT-requested reserve.

But let's say your target reserve is $30k and BaT says no, make it $26k - would you rather have $26k today or $30k 1-5 years from now?

scottmoyer

If the car sells for exactly the lowered reserve amount, then, yes, I am out over $4k. There is no guarantee that the car will sell for more than the lowered reserve, as there's no guarantee that the bidding continues to a higher sale price. BaT doesn't notify the bidders when the reserve is met. Having a reserve is my insurance policy against the "right audience" not being present at the time my car is listed.

I will say it again. I am not in a position that I have to sell the car to get the "$26k today" amount. There's also no guarantee that the car will be worth $30k in 1-5 years/ The value could start going down tomorrow. If so, I keep the cars. I enjoy having the cars, so if by testing the waters, they sell, so be it. If they don't, great. I have the space for them and they're paid for, so my costs are less than $400/year for insurance.

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

40 minutes left. Still at $26k

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Weird. It said $35,250 and when I refreshed it was back to $26K.

scottmoyer

Sold for $36k.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Sold for $36K

irvan

iTrader: (1)

Does that mean now is a good time to resubmit your car Scott?

scottmoyer

I don't think so. Reasoning? This car just sold for a good amount. I have yet to see back-to-back sales come in at similar pricing. The last IROC-Z sold on BaT for over $30k was in June, 2019. There have been other examples with more options and less miles sell for less. Now this car comes up at this price, but I don't believe the next one will.

One thing that this shows is that there is value to some of these cars. This car also has the buyer's premium of $1800, so the total cost is $37,800 for this car. Make me an offer and let's see what happens!

irvan

iTrader: (1)

I thought they might be more willing to accept the reserve you wanted since this car did so well.

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

I guessed it at Mid $30's.

Congrats to buyer and seller. Basically this car sold at almost double the sticker price 33 years later.