mr396

I found this on e-bay it has some good documentation. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ultra...item4aae7271c3

mr396

It shows GU6 3.42 on the spid and build sheet and it shows 3.45 on the window sticker. Note G92 on the Spid. I didn't think G92 were listed on Birds.

Jason E

I saw that on eBay last night...what a car. I wonder what it will ultimately sell for.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I really dont think its worth that kinda coin..
motor knocks ??
paint is ifffy
from what im told, stickers in the door jam have been removed and supposedly all the vin stickers to. Y? when did they stop using vin stickers on body panels?
Id guess 7-10K ish
Very cool car tho..

mr396

bs

Drew

iTrader: (58)

That ad is full of ****. Every misconception in the book is represented in that mile of oversized bold faced text. 38k miles, rust, oxidized paint, missing hood liner, missing centercaps, missing decals, and a premium price attached to it all? No thank you. I didn't read all the BS, or look that closely at the pics, but there are a lot of red flags that can be seen in just a few pics.

How big a hole did they put in the firewall to install aftermarket A/C? Ouch.

All of the facts support that the 1LE package refers specifically to larger front brakes. That's it. The springs, sway bars, bushings, etc are all exactly the same as every other WS6 92 Firebird. Why do people keep perpetuating hype that it's somehow an upgrade when all the actual parts (except the front brakes) are exactly the same?

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Before 92... I've had several 91's and none of them have the VIN stickers on the body panels. I'd suspect they went away around 1990.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Yeah I figured it was around the time airbags showed up and Pass key was a success(?). my 89 has them and my other 91-92 cars donot..

eseibel67

Cool car, cool story, but it's just too messed up. Value might be there someday to warrant a cost-no-object restoration, but not today. Especially when every other TA made in the subsequent 10 model years could outperform it (in contrast to the L88 Corvette that the seller keeps referring to, that had a lot of soft Corvettes follow it through the seventies). I love 1LE's, but this one has too much negative history and not enough positive to justify big bucks.

StevenB L98/LS1

Car looks ragged out to me, not even in nice condition. The seller is so full of it.

subroc

iTrader: (2)

And its not listed anymore.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

You're not missing much. Just a beater grade 92 Trans Am that was a bit unusual at one time before it was used up. Maybe the seller came to his senses that it wasn't worth anywhere near what he was asking, or realized that his description was so much pie in the sky that it made the writer look stupid. Maybe he got tired of realistic offers, or messages pointing out the BS. Maybe he saw this thread and didn't like being laughed at... Either way it was never going to sell for that $30,000+ price tag he was asking. Not even if it was fully restored and pumped through Barret Jackson enough times that people forgot it was once beat.

All original, low mileage thirdgens (in excellent condition) are still out there, and relatively affordable. The 1le package is 98% hype. For every person that thinks the big brakes are worth giving up A/C, there are a hundred that would rather cruise in conditioned air, than stop a little bit quicker. There isn't enough special about a 1LE to really drive up the value. Even if there were this car wasn't in exceptional condition. It was a $3k Trans Am, not a $30k super collector car. Yeah, it'd probably be worth something after it's fully restored, but a sub-40k mile car shouldn't need restoration. It's not going to be worth as much after restoration as a truly preserved car.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Anybody save some pics from it? I'm kinda curious to see it.

Slater126

iTrader: (1)

Agreed. I love "stripper" cars but I think the price differential has gotten too great for what you're actually getting. When they were new and cheaper than a loaded model, sure. But now? I don't know. Unless I was a collector I'd probably save the money and go with one with A/C and no t-tops and be happy with it.

3rdgenparts

iTrader: (8)

Ya I read the descrip on that car when it first popPed on ebay a few days ago,It was abunch of "air words".But best part was the line "my ex wife lent the car to a friend" lol.And year's later "Some guy" told him to get it out of his yard LMAO !!! PRICELESS


Dave

mr396

Here you go it's on e-bay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ultra...item3f0ec667ac

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Except for all the 1989 TTAs, and all the 1992 B4Cs. Didn't the Firehawks also come with 1LE brakes standard? Yep, no way to get factory A/C and 1LE brakes. <sarcasm>

For whatever reason it's not unusual to see Pontiac 1LEs chalked full of options. Also considering that the vast majority of 1LE Pontiacs were Turbo Trans Ams, most of them had full power options, T-tops, leather seating, etc. Take into account the 1992 B4C RS which also could be had with power options, and it's not at all unusual.

1LEs carry the exact same 36/24mm front and rear sway bars as EVERY FE2/WS6 Firebird. The same goes for the bushings. The 1LE prop valve is exactly the same part as every other 89-92 Camaro or Firebird with PBR rear disc brakes. If the car is an 89-92 with J65 it's got the 1LE prop valve. Faster steering? Again it's exactly the same as every other FE2 thirdgen. Better shocks? Perhaps, a person would have to compare the part numbers, but does it really matter 20 years later when the original shocks are shot? Super thick coil springs? Look at the spring codes, 6ZW & 7ZW, 8NL & 9NL. These are the exact same coil springs you'll find under a hundred thousand Iroczs, Formulas, Trans Ams, etc. The "Corvette" PBR front brakes are specific to the 1LE package, but then that's all the RPO code represents. The gas tank on a 1LE is exactly the same part as a 1992 3.1L Firebird had, the sending unit module was the same too. The mythical 1LE gas pickup is an updated design filter sock. Which most late MPFI thirdgens probably also came with regardless of the 1LE code.

The problem with all of these 1LE myths is that they started in 1988. Most of the "special" features were applied to non-1LE cars by 1990. The only part of it that was really specific to 1LE cars was the larger front brakes.

The seller compares the car to a classic Corvette, a COPO, a Firehawk, and the 89 TTAs, completely ignoring that ANY of those cars would run away from a 1LE Trans Am with a 305 at a stop light. For that matter, a 1LE has no different acceleration then a non-1LE with the same drivetrain. The only difference is those non-1LEs could have factory a/c.

Reading that long drawn out description just illustrates how little the seller really knows about the car. He even thinks it's got a 9-bolt rear under it just because it's a 1LE. Obviously someone watched Barrett Jackson and thought they could make a pot of money. But he's comparing apples to oranges, and repeating every bit of incorrect trivia he's ever read on the subject.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Thanks!

and LOL:
I'll be honest, I think that's a really nice Trans Am and a rare one at that, being a 92 Quasar Blue TPI car with a 5-speed regardless of this 1LE garbage. I just can't believe the crap this guy is spewing. That's definitely a car I'd pay a little more for than your average thirdgen but who the hell would come remotely close to that guy's asking price. Looks like he'll be holding onto that car for a little while longer.

87 player bird

Nice car, great paper trail, way too much moolah though.

RyanFormula

iTrader: (1)

I'll have some of what this guy is smoking. I put in a $2500 offer, just to see what happened. I would say it's worth that and I could resell it or let my girlfriend drive it for that.

KMK454

38k miles, fairly rare options... if the car was perfect and needed nothing at all, I'd say $12 to $20k. This car isn't perfect and needs a bit of freshening. The odd thing is the car isn't as ragged as some people make; the owner could probably do a lot of detailing and basic resto work himself and greatly increase his value.

t_towner

Unique car with a great paper trail. I made him what I considered to be a very fair offer a couple months ago. They removed the door stickers during the repaint. Someday it will be worth restoring. Even if the car was perfect it wouldn't fetch anywhere close to that. Just last month a 91 blue 1LE formy w 41k miles in excellent shape sold for 7,500. It will get to market value eventually.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

It's ragged if you read the description. Skip past all the BS about how it's so rare, to the part where he talks about leaving it in storage, hiding it under boxes during a divorce, and his ex-wife giving the car to some random guy. Focus on the part where he says the random guy beat the hell out of the car for about 4 years. The present condition is barely running, it knocks, it smokes, it's got snow tires on it, it's been sitting outdoors, etc. From the pics you can see missing parts, faded paint, rust, etc. It's at least, a $5k paint job away from looking the part of a special, well cared for car. Mechanically there's no way to know what random guy did to the car, but from the sounds of it, it probably spent most of that 4 years trying to peg the 8k rpm tach. How much damage can a driver do in 10,000 miles? Think of it as a 10,000 mile, joyride, motivated by revenge. Who knows what the inside of the transmission looks like, or how much abuse the engine was subjected to. Factor in the real annoyance of what sounds like broken front GFX, delaminated (destroyed/unrestorable) 91-92 T/A specific tail lights, wheels that need refinished, the missing hood liner that's not reproduced, missing door jamb decals that aren't reproduced, and you've got a car that's borderline un-restorable. At least not to the caliber that would make it worth his asking price.

In perfect condition it's probably worth the same as a similar condition TTA. It's a slower car, which effects the price (negatively), the rarity brings it up a little but not that much. It's certainly not worth as much as a Firehawk. But the problem is it's not stock, it's not original, it hasn't been perfectly preserved. It's a long, expensive road from where the car is now, to mint condition. Honestly it'll never be the same as if someone had just driven the car to 38k miles, and taken care of it. They're only ever original once, and that time has past for this car.

Motown

Very well said Drew I agree with you.

I hope that guy finds this thread.

xcalibur

Words of GREAT wisdom.

Slater126

iTrader: (1)

It's baaaack.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ponti...m=270830823340

silentkillzr

iTrader: (2)

Am i mistaken or is that one of 9 cars ever built?

Drew

iTrader: (58)

It was... if you break it down and consider combinations. If you factor in the colors it's probably legitimately 1 of 1, or damn close.

But you know how people talk about not modifying a car, or abusing a car, or subjecting it to the elements because it's going to be such a rare and valuable car? Well, this car broke all of those rules.

Let's be realistic, this is NOT a 1970 Hemi Cuda convertible. The option that makes this car rare is a front brake package. It's not a classic muscle car that people drooled over. It's not some factory super car that was packing performance that wasn't matched for another 20 years. It's not even the fastest example of that body style.

If any of the other 8, 92 1LE Trans Ams, is in mint condition, it might be worth what he's asking... But that's a huge maybe. I mean he's well into Firehawk territory with that price, and a Firehawk is actually something. It's rare in number, not necessarily rare in desirability.

silentkillzr

iTrader: (2)

Yeah id pay maybe in the 10's for it, but hey its got rust, more rust than my bird, and ive got an average joe 84 firebird, originally v6 5spd. Sad story, i would have killed that ex wife to 'borrow' a collector car out to someone to tarnish it.

xcalibur

HA! Was looking @ the pix, and for being so very 'well equipped' he missed the split rear seat option... he'll have to drop his price for that one !

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Firebirds couldn't be had with the split rear seat in the later years. I'm not sure exactly the cut off year, but it wasn't an option in 91 or 92...

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

eh Im going to drop my guesstimate to 5-7k.
Id prolly give 5k for it.

Slater126

iTrader: (1)

Yup. It must be noted there's an absolutely cherry mint '91 1LE Z28 with 10,700 miles on ebay right now for 22.9k BIN, meaning you could certainly get it for less. A mint '89 5.7 IROC with 28k on the clock and interesting low option content just went for 9.5k. So, in light of that reality, you're guesstimate is probably fair, given what it would cost to bring it to mint. You'd literally have to take it apart bolt by bolt and replace everything to make it as nice as the 22.9k 1LE you could buy and drive today.

I doubt even his ex-wife was mean enough to install that aftermarket A/C system. WTF??

cavalier

9 were built.

5 of these also had the R7U options, there were built for the Canadian Players race series.

3 were built for US consumption. This car, the yellow one owned by a forum member, and one other.

1 was built and sold in Canada. Forum member Mark ZZ3 made mention of it being destroyed in an accident.

BTW, the R7U cars had at least as many options as the eBay car.

Andy 91GTA

iTrader: (2)

That is a very unique car and I love the color. The guy is out to lunch on his price though. That car would be tricky to properly restore, ie, correct blue quasar blue body side moldings, correct factory floor mats, Firebird and Trans Am decals (are they even still available?), etc.

Does anyone know the original asking price? The highest price I saw was $28,333.77.

It was nice to see pics of that car when it was new in 92.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

I guess people loved stuffing aftermarket A/C systems into 1LE cars; look at the Jamaica Yellow 1LE Trans Am in this article that he posted. Looks like the same style compressor under the hood!

http://www.hemmings.com/hmn/stories/..._feature9.html

cavalier

The only things truly unique about it are the big front brakes and the factory deletion of the A/C.

Anyone who wanted to order one from 1990-1992 could. Most people would rather have A/C then the big brakes, or they ordered the 1LE Formula. That is why the 1LE TA's are rare today.

Slater126

iTrader: (1)

So at least half of the '92 Trans Am 1LE's had aftermarket A/C installed, LOL! I guess I don't really get it. If you wanted A/C, why bother with the 1LE? I don't know how much cutting was involved but hopefully it's just a matter of removing the parts and installing the original heater box again.

Leo1le

Unfurtunately by the time I got the car the OLDS dealer I bought it from they had already installed that "god forsaken" A/C, I have been meaning to remove it but I am afraid of finding any hack job done by the dealer, I think I will start doing that this winter. I need to find the original Non A/C stuff to bring back to original.