LT1 with 700R4 questions
07-20-2005, 10:46 AM
#1
LT1 with 700R4 questions
I have the LT1 bolted to the 700r4 tranny. I have the throttle bracket off of a 93 LT1, and the 93 t/v cable - not installed yet. I have a brand new beefed up 700r4 with a stall that i got for almost nothing. This 700r4 was rebuilt for 350-400hp. i know how to connect the wires to the p-n switch on the shifter.
1) Is a 93 LT1 Throttle Body required for a 700r4?
2)Do i wire the LT1 pcm to the 700r4 tranny. if so, then how?
3)How do i wire up tcc?
4)Any other wiring issues?
5)I have tunercat. What has to be done to program for a 700r4?
6) Anyone have a tunercat .bin file for an LT1 with a 700r4?
7) Any other 700r4 advice?
8)Is it worth it keep the rebuilt 700r4 or should i sell it and buy a 4L60E?
1) Is a 93 LT1 Throttle Body required for a 700r4?
2)Do i wire the LT1 pcm to the 700r4 tranny. if so, then how?
3)How do i wire up tcc?
4)Any other wiring issues?
5)I have tunercat. What has to be done to program for a 700r4?
6) Anyone have a tunercat .bin file for an LT1 with a 700r4?
7) Any other 700r4 advice?
8)Is it worth it keep the rebuilt 700r4 or should i sell it and buy a 4L60E?
07-20-2005, 10:59 AM
#2
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Car: 1987 GTA
Engine: LT1
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt 3.70 posi
personally, sell the 700R4 and get a 4L60E since you can use tunercat to program shift points, when the TC locks up and calibrate the speedo (if you are using a cable driven speedo, this is mute).
07-20-2005, 11:37 AM
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Car: 93 240SX
Engine: LQ9
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.54 R200 IRS
You *could* run it, but you'll need to wire up a lockup control switch, acquire a 93 throtte body, and then you still cant get the correct speed pulse out of it, IMHO you're best off getting your hands on a 4L60E.
07-20-2005, 11:49 AM
#4
ok. so pricewise, a new 93 tb runs $300. I can get a 4L60E for nothing but it is shot - only 2 gears left. I'll look into what it'll cost to have the 4L60E overhauled and what my tranny is worth. I think i'll go the 4l60e route. Thanks guys, youre great!
07-20-2005, 01:20 PM
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Car: 93 240SX
Engine: LQ9
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.54 R200 IRS
Sure cheaper to put in the 700R4.... uh huh
Lets see the total after you manage to get the high speed vss pulse out of the 700R4.
Lets see the total after you manage to get the high speed vss pulse out of the 700R4.
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07-20-2005, 02:21 PM
#9
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Car: 93 240SX
Engine: LQ9
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.54 R200 IRS
Originally posted by Firebat
is the vss pulse just for the speedometer?
is the vss pulse just for the speedometer?
07-20-2005, 02:35 PM
#11
07-27-2005, 05:30 PM
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on this topic i have done this swap, the 700r4 with a 95 lt1. i just got the engine stuff fixed and know the car idles diff once in drive. i put a tci lock up kit in it and i havint gotted the vss hooked up yet, im hoping once i get the vss hooked up it will work right, i was told that all you have to do is use the vss from a 95 for it to work right, so this is possiable. i also had the computer flashed with the code for the trany deleted. but i do plan on doing the t56 swap this winter. hope this helps you out. and the tci kit is only 75.00
07-28-2005, 07:25 PM
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Car: 93 240SX
Engine: LQ9
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.54 R200 IRS
Good luck with the "just swap the vss with one from a 95" part.
Originally posted by ssean92
on this topic i have done this swap, the 700r4 with a 95 lt1. i just got the engine stuff fixed and know the car idles diff once in drive. i put a tci lock up kit in it and i havint gotted the vss hooked up yet, im hoping once i get the vss hooked up it will work right, i was told that all you have to do is use the vss from a 95 for it to work right, so this is possiable. i also had the computer flashed with the code for the trany deleted. but i do plan on doing the t56 swap this winter. hope this helps you out. and the tci kit is only 75.00
on this topic i have done this swap, the 700r4 with a 95 lt1. i just got the engine stuff fixed and know the car idles diff once in drive. i put a tci lock up kit in it and i havint gotted the vss hooked up yet, im hoping once i get the vss hooked up it will work right, i was told that all you have to do is use the vss from a 95 for it to work right, so this is possiable. i also had the computer flashed with the code for the trany deleted. but i do plan on doing the t56 swap this winter. hope this helps you out. and the tci kit is only 75.00
08-02-2005, 05:21 PM
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u need to hook up the vss up and the speedo signal out to the buffer box. it will not run right with out it. i tried that too and the car ran fine till u try to drive it. thats what i found out in my experiance. hope this helps you out. the buffer box is under the pass side. u need to hook the green/white white wire to terminal c. it it the brown wire. hope this helps sean
08-17-2005, 11:06 PM
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hey, i am stuck with the 700r4 for now. my speedo uses a mechanical cable i think, so speedo won't be a problem for me.
my pcm/lt-1 is a 95 obd1 model and it was flashed for the tranny delete. after i get it done will the car run right in gear?
also i too plan on the tci kit for lockup.
edit: i don't know if any one company is better than the other but speartech done my pcm.
my pcm/lt-1 is a 95 obd1 model and it was flashed for the tranny delete. after i get it done will the car run right in gear?
also i too plan on the tci kit for lockup.
edit: i don't know if any one company is better than the other but speartech done my pcm.
Last edited by mrfbody; 08-17-2005 at 11:18 PM.
08-18-2005, 07:03 AM
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Car: 1987 GTA
Engine: LT1
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt 3.70 posi
mrfbody, you will need to buy a VSS to put in the 700R4 and hook the output up to the LT1 PCM, if not the car will not run right and be hard to drive since the PCM gets alot of info from the VSS to handle spark advance, injector pulses etc etc.
The only thing that gets flashed out of the PCM is the tranny codes where you won't have a check engine light because the PCM doesn't see the 4L60E.
The only thing that gets flashed out of the PCM is the tranny codes where you won't have a check engine light because the PCM doesn't see the 4L60E.
08-18-2005, 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by Klortho
mrfbody, you will need to buy a VSS to put in the 700R4 and hook the output up to the LT1 PCM, if not the car will not run right and be hard to drive since the PCM gets alot of info from the VSS to handle spark advance, injector pulses etc etc.
The only thing that gets flashed out of the PCM is the tranny codes where you won't have a check engine light because the PCM doesn't see the 4L60E.
mrfbody, you will need to buy a VSS to put in the 700R4 and hook the output up to the LT1 PCM, if not the car will not run right and be hard to drive since the PCM gets alot of info from the VSS to handle spark advance, injector pulses etc etc.
The only thing that gets flashed out of the PCM is the tranny codes where you won't have a check engine light because the PCM doesn't see the 4L60E.
08-22-2005, 02:18 PM
#23
you can calibrate the pulses per driveshaft rotation or something like that in tunercat. Just wondering if anyone has figured that out... I'm sure there's a huge calculation that can be figured out. 4l60E=40, T56=17, 700r4=?, and there is other values like tire size that factor in too.
08-23-2005, 05:45 PM
#25
Originally posted by mrfbody
what do i buy and how/where do i install it?
what do i buy and how/where do i install it?
its like $80? for the program (Tuner 2.08) and $20 for the LT1 definition file to make it work with an LT1 (some 94s and all 95s).
www.tunercat.com
then you have to buy a cable from www.akmcables.com
i bought the kit and built my cable for $45, otherwise it is $90
works on any computer/laptop with at least windows 95
Last edited by Firebat; 08-23-2005 at 06:10 PM.
08-29-2005, 07:30 PM
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i talked to a tranny company and they said i can bolt in a 4l60e vss into a 700r4 tranny, np.
mine is mechanical. he said id have to remove a gear and install some kind of box and i'd be good to go.
anyway, he sold me all the stuff i need for 25 plus shipping. does all this sound right to you guys?
that brings me to the speedo then.
firebat, so you are saying if i get an 88-92 speedo i can use tunercat to get the output signal from the lt-1 ecm to properly communicate with the speedo?
also do i even use the output from the ecm or just splice into the input and go paralell to both the ecm input and the speedo?
i am nearly 100% on information now, all i have left is a little heater hose routing and gotta figure out the tranny linkage debaucle on my own and i should be good to go.
pretty soon i gotta make a huge run to the parts store and get to work.
edit: one more thing, the neutral start switch. i am assuming it is important to hook that up. just connect the lt1 ecm wire to the wire coming off of the fbody shifter and tha will be ok?
mine is mechanical. he said id have to remove a gear and install some kind of box and i'd be good to go.
anyway, he sold me all the stuff i need for 25 plus shipping. does all this sound right to you guys?
that brings me to the speedo then.
firebat, so you are saying if i get an 88-92 speedo i can use tunercat to get the output signal from the lt-1 ecm to properly communicate with the speedo?
also do i even use the output from the ecm or just splice into the input and go paralell to both the ecm input and the speedo?
i am nearly 100% on information now, all i have left is a little heater hose routing and gotta figure out the tranny linkage debaucle on my own and i should be good to go.
pretty soon i gotta make a huge run to the parts store and get to work.
edit: one more thing, the neutral start switch. i am assuming it is important to hook that up. just connect the lt1 ecm wire to the wire coming off of the fbody shifter and tha will be ok?
Last edited by mrfbody; 08-29-2005 at 07:35 PM.
08-29-2005, 07:37 PM
#29
Originally posted by mrfbody
i talked to a tranny company and they said i can bolt in a 4l60e vss into a 700r4 tranny, np.
mine is mechanical. he said id have to remove a gear and install some kind of box and i'd be good to go.
firebat, so you are saying if i get an 88-92 speedo i can use tunercat to get the output signal from the lt-1 ecm to properly communicate with the speedo?
also do i even use the output from the ecm or just splice into the input and go paralell to both the ecm input and the speedo?
.
i talked to a tranny company and they said i can bolt in a 4l60e vss into a 700r4 tranny, np.
mine is mechanical. he said id have to remove a gear and install some kind of box and i'd be good to go.
firebat, so you are saying if i get an 88-92 speedo i can use tunercat to get the output signal from the lt-1 ecm to properly communicate with the speedo?
also do i even use the output from the ecm or just splice into the input and go paralell to both the ecm input and the speedo?
.
i haven't figured out tunercat yet but i think it would be possible to use tunercat with the third gen speedo. i have a 86 and i'm pretty sure it isn't mechanical but i dont know yet since my tranny isn't the original.
i'm probably going to end up using the sgi-5 box from dakota digital anyway but who knows.
edit: for the sgi-5 box you hook up the regualr output to the ecm. The ecm then converts it to a 4000 pulses per mile signal for your speedo. The sgi-5 box also has outputs for 4000 and also 2000 in case your speedo is a 2000 ppm speedometer.
Last edited by Firebat; 08-29-2005 at 07:42 PM.
08-29-2005, 07:44 PM
#30
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from what i have heard so far, every fbody up to 87 had a mechanical speedo.
i am not sure of the manufacturer of the box or whatever they are sending me but the tech said he can walk me through the installation.
don't know about you but if no one else has mabe the fbody speedo work with the lt-1 sending unit, i may just get an aftermarket speedo.
u know anything about that neutral switch thing? is my assumption correct?
i am not sure of the manufacturer of the box or whatever they are sending me but the tech said he can walk me through the installation.
don't know about you but if no one else has mabe the fbody speedo work with the lt-1 sending unit, i may just get an aftermarket speedo.
u know anything about that neutral switch thing? is my assumption correct?
09-01-2005, 10:50 PM
#34
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hey, got the stuff in today. the order sheet reads vss w/pickup and reluctor.
the guy said all i have to do is remove the mechanical stuff and put this stuff in and it is a direct bolt-on swap.
to me it looks like a gear and a magnetic pickup with a vss plug on top of it.
it appears to be stock equiptment pulled from a 4l60e
the guy said all i have to do is remove the mechanical stuff and put this stuff in and it is a direct bolt-on swap.
to me it looks like a gear and a magnetic pickup with a vss plug on top of it.
it appears to be stock equiptment pulled from a 4l60e
09-02-2005, 11:59 PM
#35
Originally posted by mrfbody
hey, got the stuff in today. the order sheet reads vss w/pickup and reluctor.
the guy said all i have to do is remove the mechanical stuff and put this stuff in and it is a direct bolt-on swap.
to me it looks like a gear and a magnetic pickup with a vss plug on top of it.
it appears to be stock equiptment pulled from a 4l60e
hey, got the stuff in today. the order sheet reads vss w/pickup and reluctor.
the guy said all i have to do is remove the mechanical stuff and put this stuff in and it is a direct bolt-on swap.
to me it looks like a gear and a magnetic pickup with a vss plug on top of it.
it appears to be stock equiptment pulled from a 4l60e
09-03-2005, 12:38 AM
#36
firebat:
yes, it's stock parts.
it's not that easy, but it's not that hard: you have to pull the tail and press on the metal reluctor wheel on the output shaft.
you also need the wires and plug.
honestly, being a tranny guy, I would have done the 4L60E.
they are almost the same trans, a lot of parts internally will interchange, and yes then the computer controls the trans, much less work to make things operate together.
just my 2 cents.
oh, for 350 bucks I'd take your 700 and give you a fresh 4l60e, you buy a converter, but you'd have to come to Kansas City to get it......
yes, it's stock parts.
it's not that easy, but it's not that hard: you have to pull the tail and press on the metal reluctor wheel on the output shaft.
you also need the wires and plug.
honestly, being a tranny guy, I would have done the 4L60E.
they are almost the same trans, a lot of parts internally will interchange, and yes then the computer controls the trans, much less work to make things operate together.
just my 2 cents.
oh, for 350 bucks I'd take your 700 and give you a fresh 4l60e, you buy a converter, but you'd have to come to Kansas City to get it......
09-03-2005, 11:36 AM
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well the 700r4 wan't my choosing. i bought the car 1/2 way through the lt-1 swap and it came with a 700r4 in it.
i do not have the funds for a 4l60e swap but it is in my mind though.
i am not a tranny guy, so can you help me out on the installation?
to remove the tail section, i have to remove the driveshaft??
also when i do will i get a bath in tranny fluid?
the tech guy mentioned heating something up to remove it or something like that. probably something to do with the reluctor gear???
the info i got was from a guy over at a website called bowtie overdrives. only thing is for being a tranny site they really don't know much about lt-1/700r4 combo's he thought i was crazy when i said i heard that the lt-1's stall out with no vss.
ok, and if i hook up the lt-1 vss in a 700r4, will a lt-1 ecm speedo signal correctly translate into a fbody electronic speedo or should i just get an aftermarket one?
i do not have the funds for a 4l60e swap but it is in my mind though.
i am not a tranny guy, so can you help me out on the installation?
to remove the tail section, i have to remove the driveshaft??
also when i do will i get a bath in tranny fluid?
the tech guy mentioned heating something up to remove it or something like that. probably something to do with the reluctor gear???
the info i got was from a guy over at a website called bowtie overdrives. only thing is for being a tranny site they really don't know much about lt-1/700r4 combo's he thought i was crazy when i said i heard that the lt-1's stall out with no vss.
ok, and if i hook up the lt-1 vss in a 700r4, will a lt-1 ecm speedo signal correctly translate into a fbody electronic speedo or should i just get an aftermarket one?
09-03-2005, 12:20 PM
#38
raise up the rear end as high as you can get it. that will let the fluid in the trans go to the front and keep from spilling out when you pull the driveshaft and tail.
pull driveshaft, pull old speedo parts out of tail (sometimes it ruins them, but you're not going to re-use them anyway), pull 4 bolts holding on tail, pull tail. there it is-- the old gear/reluctor.
if it already has a reluctor and it has the same teeth count as your new one, leave it there. (I have seen a handfull of 700's with metal reluctors already on the output shaft.
note the distance of the gear from the end of the shaft, the new reluctor needs to be pressed on that far.
if not, turn the output shaft (take it out of park) so that the metal speedo gear clip is facing you, put a medium to large screwdriver between the gear and the clip and tap the screwdriver towards the gear, towards the end of the output shaft until it comes off.
get a piece of pipe that will slide freely over the end of the output shaft and slide on the reluctor as far as it will go, then use the pipe to hammer it the rest of the way on (to the distance you noted earlier).
bolt on the tail, install the pick up in the old speedo gear hole, install your driveshaft, then you have to hook up the electronics.
I don't know the answer to your question with 100% confidence, but I know GM technology usually overlaps over many years. I would think that the signal from the computer should be the same to any electric speedo head, because all gm computers that read speed have had it converted into a signal the computer can understand. IF, then it outputs it to a speedo head , I wold think they would output using the same signal to simplify and save money on the technology. the thing you have to worry about is if the computer has been programed for your rear end ratio.
I would try it before you spend the $$ on an aftermarket speedo head.
pull driveshaft, pull old speedo parts out of tail (sometimes it ruins them, but you're not going to re-use them anyway), pull 4 bolts holding on tail, pull tail. there it is-- the old gear/reluctor.
if it already has a reluctor and it has the same teeth count as your new one, leave it there. (I have seen a handfull of 700's with metal reluctors already on the output shaft.
note the distance of the gear from the end of the shaft, the new reluctor needs to be pressed on that far.
if not, turn the output shaft (take it out of park) so that the metal speedo gear clip is facing you, put a medium to large screwdriver between the gear and the clip and tap the screwdriver towards the gear, towards the end of the output shaft until it comes off.
get a piece of pipe that will slide freely over the end of the output shaft and slide on the reluctor as far as it will go, then use the pipe to hammer it the rest of the way on (to the distance you noted earlier).
bolt on the tail, install the pick up in the old speedo gear hole, install your driveshaft, then you have to hook up the electronics.
I don't know the answer to your question with 100% confidence, but I know GM technology usually overlaps over many years. I would think that the signal from the computer should be the same to any electric speedo head, because all gm computers that read speed have had it converted into a signal the computer can understand. IF, then it outputs it to a speedo head , I wold think they would output using the same signal to simplify and save money on the technology. the thing you have to worry about is if the computer has been programed for your rear end ratio.
I would try it before you spend the $$ on an aftermarket speedo head.
09-03-2005, 02:27 PM
#39
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i can change the rear ratio np. speartech said they'd hook me up on that no charge. i have to buy another head anyway b/c that mechanical head i have now will not work.
i like that(jacking up the rear) thanx.
i like that(jacking up the rear) thanx.
09-05-2005, 08:38 PM
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well it seems i was either misinformed or this car has a different tranny/speedo than factory. i pulled the driveshaft and low and behold an electric sender.
so greggbruce, does the procedure change any since it is electric and not mechanical now? also i am really happy it was electric, saves me money and aggravation on replacing the speedo.
i am guessing chances are 99.9% there is already a reluctor in there now, correct?
just compare the gears as u said be4? and proceed as written above correct?
so greggbruce, does the procedure change any since it is electric and not mechanical now? also i am really happy it was electric, saves me money and aggravation on replacing the speedo.
i am guessing chances are 99.9% there is already a reluctor in there now, correct?
just compare the gears as u said be4? and proceed as written above correct?
09-05-2005, 09:11 PM
#41
there are some that have an electric plugin, but still have nylon gears inside. you at least need to pull the speedo sender out of the tail to see if there is a metal reluctor on the output shaft. if so, count the teeth to make sure they are the same as your new parts and then stuff the new sender into the tail and make your wiring connections.
09-05-2005, 10:54 PM
#42
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Car: 1987 GTA
Engine: LT1
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt 3.70 posi
I thought the 4L60E ran on a reluctor ring like the T56's and the VSS reads the ring like ABS sort of instead of having a gear inside I know that the 700R4 ran off a gear.
09-06-2005, 11:08 AM
#43
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i have the 700 hooked up to my 95 lt1 and the speedo is off by 30 mph. i have a 92 with the electric speedo. it seems to run right with out the speedo being right. but did i read this right i can buy a box that will make my speedo right?
09-06-2005, 03:16 PM
#44
Originally posted by ssean92
i have the 700 hooked up to my 95 lt1 and the speedo is off by 30 mph. i have a 92 with the electric speedo. it seems to run right with out the speedo being right. but did i read this right i can buy a box that will make my speedo right?
i have the 700 hooked up to my 95 lt1 and the speedo is off by 30 mph. i have a 92 with the electric speedo. it seems to run right with out the speedo being right. but did i read this right i can buy a box that will make my speedo right?
FYI: i haven't bought it yet...
09-08-2005, 05:57 PM
#45
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Car: 1990 TA, 1995 Sierra 1500
Engine: 305tpi to LT1 mod, 305 TBI
Transmission: 4L60E with 3000 Stall, 5spd
this may sound stupid, but will changing the vss in a 700r4 allow me to change the shift points in the tranny using the tunercat or will it only allow the tranny and the computer to communicate more fluidly???
09-08-2005, 06:00 PM
#46
Originally posted by Leader_One
this may sound stupid, but will changing the vss in a 700r4 allow me to change the shift points in the tranny using the tunercat or will it only allow the tranny and the computer to communicate more fluidly???
this may sound stupid, but will changing the vss in a 700r4 allow me to change the shift points in the tranny using the tunercat or will it only allow the tranny and the computer to communicate more fluidly???
09-08-2005, 06:04 PM
#47
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i am no expert but i would think it would only allow the computer to know how fast you are going and when your car is under load, which i think basically the only reason i am bothering with it.
i am still stuck with the vice of either buying a kit or manually locking/unlocking the converter.
or with the vss do you guys think it may be possible to have the lt-1 ecm control the converter by a little cross-gen wiring?????????????hmmmmmm........
i am still stuck with the vice of either buying a kit or manually locking/unlocking the converter.
or with the vss do you guys think it may be possible to have the lt-1 ecm control the converter by a little cross-gen wiring?????????????hmmmmmm........
09-08-2005, 06:28 PM
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well i finally got my *** under the car today and pulled the 700r4 vss.
i did not trash any gears. i was able to save the plastic gear in perfect shape.
it seems so far that the 700r4 sensor is a mechanically driven electric sending unit, whereas the 4l60e is a magnetically driven electric sending unit.
so far, 1 theory is shot to hell. the reluctor is metal but it would in no way function with the 4l60e unit.
good news is the sensors are the exact same diameter, so physically, it would fit in the hole.
i already pulled the driveshaft, now i just have to motivate myself to pull the tailsection and see if 1 will the 4l60e reluctor fit on the 700r4 shaft. b will everything fit in there together and c will it work.
i did not trash any gears. i was able to save the plastic gear in perfect shape.
it seems so far that the 700r4 sensor is a mechanically driven electric sending unit, whereas the 4l60e is a magnetically driven electric sending unit.
so far, 1 theory is shot to hell. the reluctor is metal but it would in no way function with the 4l60e unit.
good news is the sensors are the exact same diameter, so physically, it would fit in the hole.
i already pulled the driveshaft, now i just have to motivate myself to pull the tailsection and see if 1 will the 4l60e reluctor fit on the 700r4 shaft. b will everything fit in there together and c will it work.