mdavidson101

I'm starting out with a fairly solid michigan car. Its an 84, Z28. Currently running a Lt1/T-56, 4th gen dash. Trans lost 3rd and 4th which is leading to the restoration. I'm planning on disassembling everything, I want an original 3rd gen dash, clean up all the wiring, rust repair and fix PO body work.
I'm thinking turbo'd LSX but not sure on cubes nor turbo size. Im new to the whole turbo thing, So any help in the understanding of turbo sizes and relative information would be helpful.
Im going to run a T-56, 4:10s, mini tub, and built 10 bolt, depending.
I would like to hit in the 10's, but I'm not much for a track guy, just occasional, but do like to have fun on curvy back roads and highway drags. I would like to have a daily driver during the summer.

Any information would be appreciative, I'm a sucker for learning new things. I browse and search this site often, and Love it here.

Flip 2

iTrader: (1)

Think you want a bit too much straight line for an all around car. Tubbing (plus the narrow fronts) will definitely limit cornering capabilities.
LOTS of interesting turbo builds here. Look around. 5.3s, even 4.8s.
Think you could get what you want N/A if you scale it back to 11 seconds (which is still a very fast car). Spend your $$$s on a long block, or spend your $$$s on the turbo setup.
Anything you do will test your ingenuity at some point. I think going turbo boosts this factor, much as the turbo can make a 4.8 quite fast.

mdavidson101

I was thinking mini tub, I would like to throw some 315's under the back, stay with 245's up front.
I really like the idea of a turbo build, its something I haven't done yet and would like to try.
In my area there aren't many 3rd gens up and running, and its harder to find a nice one, I would like to say I have a nice example of a 3rd gen, and the pride of saying I built a 10 second street car.

Once I get my boat project out of the garage I will be pulling the car in, and start tear down. I will post some pictures, and if I need any help I will use this same thread.

cam-

Mini tub and a 315 fitment pretty much means back halfing the car. Low 7 second type stuff and theres no need unless your after a certain look, there are small tire 7 second third gens out there. Regardless from some of the things your looking at you could easily drop 50K + to do all this.

Set budget first, then ask for some help spending it and we should be able to make the most bang for your dollar that way

Flip 2

iTrader: (1)

Check the "Suspension" forum. Some folks there have managed to put 315s on.
A good number of turbo builds on this forum. Some folks even getting their turbos from yards. You should have no problem finding a 5.3 for a decent price.
When you do a brake upgrade, you will find a thread mismatch. 82-84 have std threads on their brakes. 85 up (and upgrade kits) have metric threads.
Also, if you go to a tubular torque arm, you will also have to change the front torque arm bushing holder. The 82-84 holder will not take the poly bushing for the tubular torque arm.
Good luck, and enjoy.

mdavidson101

I will definitely check the suspension board, Currently I have disk brakes all the way around, square tube control arms, and some sort of traction bars. Im not too sure on a budget, I plan to spend every bit of money I earn to go into the car. Im hoping to get a parts list set out and start collecting while sandblasting, bodywork and paint are taking place.

I will take a little time to read into the other threads here, and in the power adders section, there are a lot of good reads, I end up getting distracted most of the time!

I was looking at the LS2, what are there advantages and disadvantages to the 5.3?

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

You're going to have trouble getting a 10 second pass with a manual transmission unless you are VERY good with it. Also going to beat up the rear axle with a manual. Also going to have trouble keeping a T56 to hold together with the torque the engine will produce. There's just a lot of reasons to go with auto transmission for your build.

My engine put my friend's full weight Buick into mid-10's first pass off the trailer. He has a TH400. When I chose to use a T56 I traded in a 10 second time slip for daily fun on the street.

cam-

So you want a 10 second capable street car yes?

Cheap, Fast, Durable. You can only pick two

That said a good fresh t56 set up that can handle that is going to be around 4K with a good clutch. Engine wise if you want to do it naturally aspirated your going to enter into some level of radical territory, likely need race gas etc. So that leaves boost.

Pending your fabrication skills you could do a turbo set up, single unit and this can be done "reasonably" low dollar. Look into denmah who builds truly abominable yet fun and cheap boosted LS stuff, if nothing else he knows where to get parts that wrok, as cheaply as possible.

If you want something better than that then look into a Precision turbo single or twin set up.

Regardless your probably in the tenK+ range or so for a ten second build unless you score used parts, ridiculously cheap, and can build most everything yourself, and have it strong enough to be 1. SAFE and 2. hold together

Then your going to need a diff. 3-4K all said and done should get you something fresh and good that will last.

Driveshaft about 500 bucks.

Wheels and tires ( dont cheap out here and wrap yourself around a pole ) be smart and get some sticky high quality tires that will do the job you ask of them 3-4K rims and tires.

Interior? Who needs it lol

Also if you plan on tracking it a bit more than once, you might want to consider an 8pt good cage.

mdavidson101

Cam- Cheap isn't really a necessity. I plan on spending a good amount of that and probably more. I want a car that I have pride into showing off, not what I have now and getting laughed at cause the hoods a different color, exhaust rattles, ect, ect. They do stop laughing after a rolling 30 mph burnout.

I do have a fair bit of mechanical knowledge, and if I knew a little more about turbo's I would have a little better understanding the engineering behind it. I don't really learn by reading, more of an experience type learner, or if the technological information can be simplified a slight bit, I could relate to it.
So I'm looking at a 9in rear end, probably want a cage, for added structural support, Good rims and tires.
Interior I might keep, it has been reupholstered, and a built t-56.
All aside from which motor I will be running. Which I still haven't figured out. I grew up on dirtbikes, where there's no replacement for displacement, so my instinct is to go for a bigger cube motor, make more power easier, instead of running a smaller motor to death to produce the same amount of power?

I don't know if I am capable of putting together a twin setup, but the ideas are bouncing around now, Ill do some searching around here, see what others are running for turbo size(s.)

Qwk Trip- Thats basically what I want, daily fun on the street, be able to shift my own gears and have a car that is fast, if I build a 10 second car and run 11's with it, I'll be extremely happy.

cam-

Dude I like your style, I'll do whatever I can to help you get the car of your dreams put together with the right bits and pieces.

As for boosted LS? Whats more important at this point rather than cubes or that line of thinking ( while VERY true displacement trumps all in the end ) if 10 seconds are your goal then there simply is no need for a lot of cubes. The biggest issue is keeping the heads down, and the bottom end together with regards to boost. Fortunately LSx engines have such STELLAR built bottom ends from the factory you dont even need to build an aftermarket short block for a reliable 10 second build. But as I said keep the heads down and the bottom end together both being primary goals the smaller bore/stroke LS engines are much easier to keep together than the bigger cube stuff is where you really do need to consider spending some serious dollars on a forged built short. But a 4.8 or 5.3 stock short will run mid tens allllll day long with very little in the way of modifications if you select the right turbo's

Seeing as your going stick? Id go with twin small 62's or thereabouts and do an LM7 iron block 5.3L short with an LS1/6 intake and the LS6 cam, yellow springs and do a 10psi 91 octane pump gas tune. Should produce around 550-600 whp and be more than enough for mid tens and spool quite nicely. Then down the road if you want to chase more its as simple as upgrading the turbo units and fuel system and build a short etc. 1200 hp capable growth curve there.

Clutch run the Mcleod RXT twin and use the TICK master with a stock slave. Pick your shifter of choice. 9" great option be sure to get at least 33 spline and if you want the best posi on the market get a Moser Wavetrac

Yee haww

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

6.0 iron , 76mm, easier to fab up , less things to go wrong !!!!

5.3s will meet your goals cheaper a little cheaper

5.3s can put out some killer numbers don't sleep on the small cubes lol

Twins would be fun but seem a hassle to fab just for 600-700 hp

Have you look into nitrous as a option like nitrous outlet kits
Just need a decent street cam and when you go to the track you have the nitrous to get you into the 10s not much thought into it would be a sleeper lol

Cool little video of 5.3 nitrous engine

cam-

No doubt a single 76 will produce MORE than enough but it will not be as snappy and with a stick if he keeps the turbos small"ish" they will spool faster than a cam'd up na car gets into its range and be HEAPS of fun on the street hence my suggestion. More cost? Yes, more work? yes. More fun? HELL YES!

If you want a drag purpose built car and run a TH400, glide, or 4L80 then yep 76 single is hard to beat right now because you can stall around the spool limitations and keep the shifts in power mode but with a stick? Meh... twins wins as far as im concerned.

5.3 has smaller bore than the 6.0L and is a lot easier to keep the heads from lifting than a 6.0L is so there is more power potential WITHOUT having to build the bottom end. 4.8 too for the matter and hecek even a 5.7L LS1 but those older LS1's are not as stout as more recent year variants and do not take as much boost without breaking plus every true LS1 out there has been flogged to death already. Plenty of grandpa/ma truck 4.8's and 5.3's out there still in pristine shape.

Then when 10's become boring? Build a forged 400+ CID short, upgrade to twin 67's and LTFO!!!!! hahahaa

mdavidson101

I'm not much for a nitrous guy, I would end up running it on the street LOL! I'm searching local craigslist now for a 5.3, going to start collecting parts! I got another Camaro for a parts car. Been slightly busy with Deer season here in Michigan. Got me a stout 11 point last night.

I did do a little searching and found a couple TT setups that I think I could replicate, might need to throw a beer and some buddies in for some help. Thanks everyone for the help!

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

Lol true that

you can get singles to spool fast also just have to get turbo sizing and a/r and right cam

either way should be a handful on the street

cam-

^ True the combo is what makes it, but the window is tighter with one vs two. Automatics I like a single, its less work and gets the job done. That said Kurt Urban usually says twins for any street car, especially a stick. Good enough advice for me. Plus with twins you can right really tight AR and have much better response and its not like twins are going to cost you power, heck the worlds fastest LSx cars are all on twins right now, its just more cost and more work, theres no downside to twins otherwise. Not to mention when you pop the hood and see twin turbos? Especially on a third gen they sit up front and offer a whole lot of WOW

Anyways the main thing is getting the platform set up. Once you have an LS in the car and a good working boost friendly electrical + fuel system along with a drivetrain that can take the gaff, its very easy to go after more power, the swap is the real work, after that chasing power numbers especially with boost is quite easy, pricey, but easy.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

I don't disagree with you not on bit lol

mdavidson101

I'm looking at twin 62's, What specifically am I looking for? I don't know much about turbo's, could someone give me a run down on turbo's?

What sort of computer system should I run with that setup, fuel management, BOV, ect.

cam-

Time to call up a reputable turbo dealer and package together a combo that suits your needs. Twin 62's is a very proven set up. A lot of the fastest guys run precision turbos the CEA line. Forced inductions, huron speed, and a few others I cant think of right now are good places to speak to

UR50SLO

iTrader: (1)

All very good advice above...

I would not tub the car!! No need.

If your going turbo you won't want any taller of a gear than a 3:50. (I run 3:25's)

Street driven a lot? Overdrive. The 6speed will be expensive to hold that power. But fun to drive.
A 4L80E won't be as much fun but is a great trans which makes it more driveable.

A 4.8/5.3 with rings opened up,cam,springs,head studs,good gaskets will be more than capable of taking you deep 10's depenably ... single or twins either is good choice.

I will have a 9" rear setup with Southside bars on it very soon. (Going Fab9)

I'm not terribly far from you... let me know if you need help..
~Scott

Flip 2

iTrader: (1)

Do not forget BRAKES. The OEM 4 wheel discs will NOT be up to what you are talking about.
You will probably need bigger than 16" wheels for good brakes. Maybe C5 ZO6 (factory) wheels. Ebay has a pretty active trade in wheels. Also look at the Corvette forums. Factory wheels are usually better thought of than aftermarket copies.

mdavidson101

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-18-19-Factory-OEM-GM-comp-grey-Grand-sport-Wheels-2010-2013-Corvette-/121208436923?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Wheels&hash=item1c3895f8bb&vxp=mtr
These wheels are on my to-buy list.

http://www.precisionturbo.net/produc...-CEA%C2%AE/245

Two of these? .63 or .82?

Which brake system should I go with?
Wow, The parts list to-buy is getting long! Lol

UR50SLO- Where are you from? I do want to keep the 6 speed. I think you right, go with a lower gear though, I will be taking long trips up state, and out of state, Thirdgen Fest is on my list to do!

mdavidson101

Here's a couple pictures, First pic is when I was on my way home from Kentucky, I pulled 28 mpg while successfully getting a 23 over ticket. (not my fault I swear) Last pic is Dinner for a month

UR50SLO

iTrader: (1)

I'm here in Elkhart IN... (Right by South Bend) Top middle of state.

I see it has a LT in it now... My first Camaro was a Grey RS... I really like the 3'd gen's.

I won't even work on 4th Gens..> Too cramped in engine bay....

The Turbo cars love a mid/low gear... It'll drive better and go faster with a lame highway

gear in it...

Let me know if you need anything.~
Scott

mdavidson101

Ahh gotcha, I have driven by there a couple times. Yes has an LT, not a very good instal, but it does its job. I would agree, 4th gens are too cramped.

Speaking of things I need, Besides my parts list that is a mile long, I might need another body to start with. I happened to end up driving into a ditch the other night, I dodged a tree in the road, at 55 mph. Passenger window doesn't seal, fender is jacked, looks like the front passenger side was driven up, not sure how bad yet, but doesn't look good.

mdavidson101

Scott, I really like how clean your car is!

I have all spohn parts on my list, K member, panhard, subframe connectors, torque arm, ect. I keep hearing good and bad things about them, anyone have experience with them?

mdavidson101

Anyone know what I could have done today? I lost all gears in my trans, Shifter shifts into all gears, but nothing turns, no grinds. You can shift through all the gears without the clutch in, feels like it goes into the gate. I was just driving down the road, took it out of 6th to stop at the stop sign, went to put it in 1st and had nothing. No clunk, no grind, just nothing.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

Seems odd maybe something with slave or clutch or both so I would start there

Trouble shooting charts should be helpful
http://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tra...ing-charts.htm

Hopefully nothing internal

cam-

Does the clutch still have pedal feel or is it to the floor? Broken input shaft maybe? Hard to say but jack it up and start into it and see whats what. Pull the slave off first and peer in there with a light and see if theres anything obvious ( check drive shaft, pinion etc ) If you cant see anything glaring at you its time to drop the trans.

mdavidson101

Still have a clutch pedal, Driveshaft doesn't turn. I'm thinking either input shaft, or broken shift forks or linkage? I will be pulling the trans Tomorrow anyways.

When I click the link it says page not found..

cam-

Its very unlikely that you broke the shifter linkage ( if you open it up you'll see why ) but there are two bolts in the main case close to the front on top of the trans that are pan head torx that hold the shifter rails in place, If they have fallen out for whatever reason you wouldnt be able to select a gear. Look like this;






Broken shifter maybe? Dunno this stuff is impossible to trouble shoot without physically working on the thing

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

What you did was you just started your LSx swap.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

Hmm thats sorry about the link idl what happen just google t56 troubleshooting its the first link that comes up I used it when I was search for t56 at junkyards and local sales that where bad t56

mdavidson101

Guess I did! Although I was not prepared yet, as I don't have another *legal* vehicle on the road.

mdavidson101

Alright guys, been a little bit. The trans is finally out! What a pain in the ***! The shifter rail bolts are in place, the input shaft is in one piece. Guess its time to tear it apart!

cam-

Splines still on the clutch disk? Have you removed the clutch assembly as well? Sometimes they break or crack apart, Inspect all that stuff before tearing the trans down

mdavidson101

Nothing immediately jumped at me, but will pull the clutch off to inspect.

mdavidson101

I think I found the problem

mdavidson101

Got the trans pulled apart, I have one synchronizer ring broken, and a broken shift fork. Im looking to find parts to replace them, not too worried about rebuilding it, but replacing whats broken. Get it back driving in the meantime. I have a lead on a 5.3 and possible T-56, seems here in Michigan people ask a lot more than I would think a motor is worth!?

cam-

Engines can be found at deal prices here and there sometimes but 6 spds? Very tough to find below market value. 1500 or so complete seems about normal for used and right around 2K for a freshbuilt ( trans only )

Barlow8869

iTrader: (1)

ok, dont laugh at me to much, i am not a turbo guy (not that i wouldn't like to be) but why could you not put one big turbo and one little turbo on the same car ... let the small one get spooled up fast and get it going, and then the larger for more boost at the top end of the range ... you could get good use out of a smaller one on the street, and it would spool faster when shifting a 6 speed, but you would still get the higher psi boost when the rpms ran up (sorry if this sounds to silly, i just know they do it on big trucks)

mdavidson101

I see people asking 1100 or more for a complete 5.3? and 16-1800 for a used t56. I dont mind spending the money, but taking a risk doing it? ehh not so much.

Barlow, Im new to turbo's also, so Im not sure.

cam-

Shopping online for an engine isnt likely to yield stellar results. Visit u-pull yards and local scrap yards who dont list online. Usually 3-5 hundo or so and you remove it which is NICE as 99% of the yards who tear out engine do just that, TEAR them out, cut harness, broken valve covers ( VERY common on LSx drop outs they smash the coil packs into the firewall and it breaks the valve cover open )

As for compounding turbos? LOL well im not saying that couldnt be made to work somehow, but I have no idea how to do it and the back pressure would be insane and it sure wouldnt be as fast as just sizing the turbo properly from the get go.

mdavidson101

If there was a local yard that wasn't over an hour away I would be looking. Sucks living in the middle of nowhere I have a lead on a complete 5.3 for 600, waiting for my bike to sell and I'll be picking that up.

cam-

I see. Well n that case keep your eye on CL and local ads as well as ebay and of course the boards. Sometimes good deals pop up in need of fast sales. Happy hunting

mdavidson101

Well car has been put on hold. Job search commencing.
Although I found more rust. Looks like the quarters were replaced, and has now rusted into the rear frame rail sections, along with more rust in the tunnel and floorboards.