robbe_iroc

Hi there.

Been reading like crazy about different cam swaps for LS2 engines.
I´ve got a GTO LS2 with a T56 transmission in my Iroc and I´d like to get a bit more scream and higher rpm power to it. The main concerns I have is emissions testing. Here in Sweden the emissions are quite hard, almost as in california. We test both at idle and at 2500 rpm, so I need a camshaft that idles quite nicely

Has anyone a good cam/springs kit to recommend? I would be glad to see maybe 40-60 more horsepower from my otherwise stock engine. I run stock 2002 SS camaro manifolds and a 4" huge K/N filter CAI. Rear end is 3:73

V8SC1987

I won't be a lot of help for your cam recommendation since emissions isn't as much of an issue for me here in the states with what is considered an antique car, but you could always check with Patrick Guerra (http://www.guerragroup.com/#!camshaft-help/c1mq5). He has built some amazing combos and really knows his stuff. I'm pretty sure he will take emissions into account if needed).

Also I highly recommend Brian Tooley Racing for a spring kit. He has excellent prices and his products are the best of the best.

http://www.briantooleyracing.com/660...s-sk001-s.html

I have the kit in the link above and I have been very impressed with it.

robbe_iroc

Thanx a lot for the info about the guerragroup, never heard of them, but I will definitely try to use their services, looks like they could do some good tunes via email too, and that is a good thing for me that lives in lappland Sweden :-)

V8SC1987

I'm sure living in Sweden is a big challenge when dealing with these cars! Here's a thread of his on ls1tech that's very interesting/informative: http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation...heads-cam.html

cam-

Hey Robbe!

You'll gain as much from a quality set of long tubes as you will from a cam swap and there is no emission increase along with a high flowing exhaust. Porting or swapping heads will also make substantial gains along with swapping or porting the intake manifold as well with no emission cost. If its an LS1 intake dont bother porting, swap to an LS6 intake or maybe even the new MSD intake? I cant speak to its performance yet but of course they are promising big things from it. It looks cool

http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation...-airforce.html

Theres lots that can be done under the umbrella of emissions but as with anything its a cost limit, so how deep down the rabbit hole do you want to go? Do you have a set performance goal or just looking to make gains?

LS6 cam ver 2 with longtubes and a GOOD tune works well and is emission friednly. My friend runs this and it runs quite strong, surprisingly strong. If your set on something bigger its def worth speaking with PatG and searching around tech for good current grinds

robbe_iroc

Hey Cam :-)
Yeah I really wanted to run long tubes, but that will definitely NOT pass Swedish testing. Not so much that they get pissed off by the headers themselves, but the long tubes brings the cats far back to both a place where they will not fit, and the will not heat pup enough. I made a Y-pipe with 2 new Magnaflow cats and the car was no where near to clear ANY of the 3 gases they measure. It was twice over som of the limits…Then I built another Y pipe with 4 stock C5 cats and all the emissions readings/testing were/are 0.00. So the cats has to be stock ones and sit in stock location really close to the engine.
Yeah since I have an LS2 engine I already have the LS6 intake and 243 heads. The intake is fine for those heads, but I sure would like LS3 heads intake. But thats just too pricey. I feel that since the LS2 is .3Litre larger than the 405 hp LS6 and have higher compression with the same intake and heads it just have to be the cam that makes the LS2 less powerful than the LS6 engines. Would be interesting to se dyne numbers of a stock LS2 with the LS6 cam inside :-) hmmm time to google

Flip 2

iTrader: (1)

Robbe-
Here's a link to Crane's LS catalog.
My thinking is #1449051 could be what you are looking for. With it put some GM LS6 valve springs- I think they will cover you to .551" lift.
Don't be thinking the numbers are too small. The cams open MUCH quicker giving you good torque. Plus you will make good power up to 6-6200. Bonus; you still have good idle and decent fuel mileage.

http://www.cranecams.com/uploads/cat..._ls_series.pdf

cam-

A lot of that is in the tune up re headers. You really need to tune to your specific needs. Theres lots of guys around with long tubes passing emissions handily although im far from any kind of ace tuner, but there are others who are who can get this done. I think Im on tune file 70somethingoranother now on mine. Heck maybe even more I really cant say it was a long... long process for me to tune this sucker. But ooooweee shes fun now. Just got back from the final tour of the year, its going into the shop tomorrow for some maintenance and general health check up.


So whos tuning your car? How about Polly he seems to know whats going on have you contacted his shop?

cam-

If its a "header no good" issue the LS7 ZO6 manifolds flow quite well. Im not sure how you would fit them in a third gen, it would probably require a tubular k member but they flow quite well. Best of the GM manifolds anyways and they are SHORT so the heat would certainly soak the cats properly. Speaking of cats, LS7 ZO6 cats flow well and are OEM tough

robbe_iroc

Yeah the tuning is a big problem due to my geographic location in Sweden. The nearest rolling road dyne where they might have a clue on GM computers /EFI Live is in Sundsvall and that is 8 hours drive from my place. So that the guerra group offers tunes via email, makes thing promising from them. I already have the small EFI live auto cal thingey, but I guess the codes a locked to "my" tuner that unlocked my computer etc, He is also in Sundsvall..So my best guess is having the guerra group pick a cam for me and include a tune that has proven well with that cam in my engine and just hope for it to be good enough tune.

cam-

PatG is a reputable tuner as well as a cam spec'r. He spec'd the cam in my car now which i really like, it hit the mark as he said it would. Its definitely worth looking into those LS7 manifolds though, just look at pics and you'll see right away why they flow so well, and also why it will be trick for third gen fitmet. Nothing a little cut/weld shouldnt solve for the brave

Good to hear your still third genning. I'll be over to see your area one day, i'll shoot you a note when i do

cosmick

Emissions-clean LSx cams all have one thing in common; NO overlap at 0.050", and correcting for the 1.7:1 rocker ratio, that means at least -4 degrees, preferably -6.
Howards will custom grind any spec you want for $350, so no sense paying $ 400 for Comp or $440 for Crane.
Running stock exhaust manifolds calls for more duration on the exhaust side. Get the Z06 springs, they're still around $65 / set, and safe to 0.570" lift. So choose / spec a cam with that lift, and forget high-ratio rockers.
Pat G does well at speccing for max-HP, but I've found plenty of complaints when people swapped to something milder for better highway cruising. They post on the other forums, where Pat G isn't found. Choose accordingly.

robbe_iroc

Cam- Are you planning a trip to Sweden? That would be awesome. Canada and Sweden feels a bit similar. I´ve been to St Catherines twice. Last time 2,5 years ago. Super nice there around Toronto.
Sweden has a lot of US cars, and tons of cool camaros. Actually the worlds largest US car meet is here in Sweden, not in the US…freaky.
Yeah this cam swap is one of the most confusing things to me. Since the cam is the one thing in a car that I don't fully understand. Most other stuff regarding cars and tech ical stuff makes sense quite easily, but cams are mysterious to met ;-)

cam-

Yeah eventually I need to visit Scandinavia. Denmark, Norway, and Sweden are all places I will visit someday.

As for understanding the cam? Think of it as the analog computer or mechanical brain for the engine. The cam shafts role is to control the events of the four strokes each cyl takes. In a nutshell an emission friendly low power cam allows each cycle to operate independently of each other so there is little to no loss of raw materials ( air/fuel ) but as RPM climbs these characteristics create a lot of choke and prevent the engine from breathing in more raw materials ( air/fuel ) or common talk nowadays; eat.

So when you increase the event timing by changing the cam you tailor the events to your needs and big power, higher RPM performance likes more overlap and as much duration the engine can support based on CID limitations. This all works on fluid dynamics looking at air as a solid instead of a gas helps visualize whats going on.

When the combo is matched up well and the cam works in harmony with the other supporting parts the "hook and rope" effect becomes maximized and the exiting exhaust gas generates enough vacuum to aid in the intake process hence why you see some race builds speak of 100%+VE but this comes at the cost of down low inefficiency ( wasted air/fuel ) which is where the "dirty" aspect comes into play. So a good tuner can really mess with the histograms to create overly lean idle/part throttle conditions to compensate for these bigger events but only to a point, some cams just cannot be cleaned up.

Really the thing to consider is this, the cam alone on a build like this is worth 20-30 hp and perhaps 50+ for some crazy solid roller race grind. Considering the very emission friendly LS6 camver2 would be worth a solid 20 gain and produce gains under the entire curve vs a big race style cam that will lose power under the curve but come alive above say 4500RPM where the hook and rope effect gets strong again and you could see gains of 50hp above 6500 RPM but how often are you spinning that high? How important is those last few tenths to you?

IMO on a street/strip build drive ability trumps peak performance so I tend to shy away from giant cams and stick with smaller more fun grinds.

But the heads, intake, exh, and SCR can all be messed with at little to no drive ability or increased emission cost and all totaled up those mods will outweigh a cam swap alone.

Performance goals meet budget lol.

Something around the 220 range on a 114 will probably work out fine too, worth 10 or so over the LS6 cam

cosmick

Cam, have you read the dyno section of ls1tech.com?
Even a simple 215/223 112 cam should be 30 RWHP, even with those exhaust manifolds, and with way more low-end than any 220 cam. 220s are the ones I read complaints about. 212s have always been praised by anyone who wasn't hardcore race-only. The 0411 PCM lets an LS2 be tuned for more cam than a traditional 350, but the traditional rules still work. And even using them, the results will still pull another 1000 RPM because of how much more efficient the LS is.

cam-

Same cam in 10 different engines is going to yield 10 different numbers. As I said the entire combination needs to be carefully planned. There is one guy I know of who claims to have taken a completely stock gen 3 LS6 vette into the 9's

Personally Ive seen a best of low 12's with that cam, but ive also seen low 12's on the STOCK LS1 cam. The tune up and supporting parts make gains as big or bigger than the cam. The cam is just the brain the connects them all, and sets the events you desire. Then you log data and see if your events are worthwhile etc.

It never ends, truly. A local friend of mine had Canada's fastest street car last year.... AFTER over 25 different cam swaps to "get it all working right"

So read what you want, believe what you want, and trust the ones who go fastest/cheapest the most.