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Thank you! That's $1200 CAD too, so really I bought it for $900 US.
Nice! I have always had a thing for black T/A's .
Cheap, too. My kind of price. The way to do it, IMO, is exactly what you are thinking. Just identify the carb and rebuild it. You will save plenty of money that way. Bummer about the floors. There's a'91 in a local recycling yard, that came from NY, and it has both floors and the trunk well completely rusted through. I'm from AZ, so I don't usually see floors and trunk rusted out. Nothing a welder and some time can't fix, though.
Can't wait to see what you do with the car.
Dr.K.
The beauty of paying $1200 for the car means $400 doesn't really do any harm! That's a reman though, so I can likely have mine rebuilt for significantly less. I've already come across a few places that are knowledgeable with the qjet's, it's more a matter of figuring out what's actually in my car. It's pounding rain today but clear and fairly warm tomorrow, so when my passenger seat is done getting a nature bath from the ttop faucets, I'm going to dive in to the car and figure a couple things out.
The problem with buying a reman carb is that there's an excellent possibility that the one you get won't be exactly like the one on the car. If you decide to go that route, make certain you can return it for a refund if it isn't correct. Again, there were a number of changes made to those carbs through each model year, some not externally obvious. Mass-rebuilders tend to lump many different engines/carbs all together, and sell a 'one-size-kinda-fits-all' unit. This was even a problem 40 years ago back when all there was were carburetors; I'd imagine it's worse these days.
You'll be ahead of the game to rebuild your current carb; you already know it's the right one for the car. If you know someone who's familiar with Qjets and will rebuild it, so much the better; if nothing else, they'll have the inside edge on getting the correct kit/parts for it, and would have experience with what is a somewhat complicated (at least for a first-time rebuilder) unit.
Originally Posted by RKeats
If I can't find anything obvious to identify what the carb is, would you guys be able to identify it by a few good pictures? When the rain stops I'll take off the air cleaner and grab some good detailed pics
There should be a metal tag on it with the part number of that specific carb, which will help identify the correct repair kit, but if it was previously rebuilt at one time in the past, sometimes those tags don't get put back on. But that shouldn't be a problem for a shop that has familiarity with Qjets.
Cheap, too. My kind of price. The way to do it, IMO, is exactly what you are thinking. Just identify the carb and rebuild it. You will save plenty of money that way. Bummer about the floors. There's a'91 in a local recycling yard, that came from NY, and it has both floors and the trunk well completely rusted through. I'm from AZ, so I don't usually see floors and trunk rusted out. Nothing a welder and some time can't fix, though.
Can't wait to see what you do with the car.
Dr.K.
From what I've seen of the floors, I doubt the rust was even severe. Judging from the lack of rust everywhere else, I'd bet that there were a few tiny spots in different places, so the owner took the easy route and just cut out a bigger section to replace as a whole. The trunk, body, and rest of the original floor all seem to be in great shape. I have some pretty good connections for repairs of this nature, so it should be pretty cheap to get a proper patch done.
The problem with buying a reman carb is that there's an excellent possibility that the one you get won't be exactly like the one on the car. If you decide to go that route, make certain you can return it for a refund if it isn't correct. Again, there were a number of changes made to those carbs through each model year, some not externally obvious. Mass-rebuilders tend to lump many different engines/carbs all together, and sell a 'one-size-kinda-fits-all' unit. This was even a problem 40 years ago back when all there was were carburetors; I'd imagine it's worse these days.
You'll be ahead of the game to rebuild your current carb; you already know it's the right one for the car. If you know someone who's familiar with Qjets and will rebuild it, so much the better; if nothing else, they'll have the inside edge on getting the correct kit/parts for it, and would have experience with what is a somewhat complicated (at least for a first-time rebuilder) unit.
There should be a metal tag on it with the part number of that specific carb, which will help identify the correct repair kit, but if it was previously rebuilt at one time in the past, sometimes those tags don't get put back on. But that shouldn't be a problem for a shop that has familiarity with Qjets.
Part of the reason why I'm leaning more toward rebuilding is because it would be done at my own shop, so I can harass the tech to teach me as much as possible about what he's doing. Really the only thing frustrating me so far with this car is that the motor is a mystery to me, and I have no idea what I'm doing with a carb. I'd really like to figure out the basics so I can avoid having to ask stupid questions to you guys in the future (even though your replies are super helpful!)
For everyone's viewing pleasure, here are some quick shots I just grabbed. It's been raining pretty heavily so the car got a little bit of a bath. The GTA wheels really do wonders to these cars
Part of the reason why I'm leaning more toward rebuilding is because it would be done at my own shop, so I can harass the tech to teach me as much as possible about what he's doing. Really the only thing frustrating me so far with this car is that the motor is a mystery to me, and I have no idea what I'm doing with a carb. I'd really like to figure out the basics so I can avoid having to ask stupid questions to you guys in the future (even though your replies are super helpful!)
If you have a guy right there who can rebuild the carb off of your engine, by all means, go that route. Having someone to explain what he's doing as he's doing it will take the mystery out of it for you. And while it's unlikely you'll ever have a problem with that carb again, it'll be good to know you can deal with it yourself if it ever comes up.
It's ironic how things come full-circle sometimes; back in the day when TPI and Ford's version on the 5.0 Mustang first came out, there was a huge backlash against this 'oddball' technology, and a general hate for the seeming lack of ability to work on or modify any of it. Now, with port or direct injection on even the cheapest econo-box on the road, it's carburetors that are the problem. I'll admit though that the Qjet is the most complicated of all the domestic OEM carbs, especially when compared to the simple elegance and easy serviceability of Holley 4-barrels, but they're still nothing more than nuts and bolts.
Looking at the pics in your post above, you stole that car!
If you have a guy right there who can rebuild the carb off of your engine, by all means, go that route. Having someone to explain what he's doing as he's doing it will take the mystery out of it for you. And while it's unlikely you'll ever have a problem with that carb again, it'll be good to know you can deal with it yourself if it ever comes up.
It's ironic how things come full-circle sometimes; back in the day when TPI and Ford's version on the 5.0 Mustang first came out, there was a huge backlash against this 'oddball' technology, and a general hate for the seeming lack of ability to work on or modify any of it. Now, with port or direct injection on even the cheapest econo-box on the road, it's carburetors that are the problem. I'll admit though that the Qjet is the most complicated of all the domestic OEM carbs, especially when compared to the simple elegance and easy serviceability of Holley 4-barrels, but they're still nothing more than nuts and bolts.
Looking at the pics in your post above, you stole that car!
Funny you say that because the tech who could rebuild the carb, is also basically demanding that I convert it to f.i. instead of even messing with the carb.
The car seems to be a pretty good scoop! Few areas where I'm not in love with the paint, but it could be in primer and still be worth the $1200. I justify the car as being a set of perfect GTA wheels with new tires, a GTA interior, and a perfect dash for $1200, with the rest of the car being included for free
Funny you say that because the tech who could rebuild the carb, is also basically demanding that I convert it to f.i. instead of even messing with the carb.
That made me smile!
There's a lot to be said in favor of the current crop of aftermarket, self-learning, easily tunable FI units on the market. If you aren't concerned with keeping the car period-correct, and have the $$$ for the conversion, you have another option to consider.
The car seems to be a pretty good scoop! Few areas where I'm not in love with the paint, but it could be in primer and still be worth the $1200. I justify the car as being a set of perfect GTA wheels with new tires, a GTA interior, and a perfect dash for $1200, with the rest of the car being included for free
Parts value alone is worth way more than that. Just sayin; I'm not suggesting you do anything other than putting that car back on the road; it's much better than just a parts car.
Assuming the carb is original to the car... Which is a bold assumption, since we don't know that anything is original to the car yet.
Q-jets don't have tags to the best of my knowledge, if they did, they were long gone by the time I got to them. There's a stamped part number that will get you close. Usually the year of the car is part of the part number, IIRC.
There's a bit in the older Haynes/Chiltons manuals, but the older manuals kinda suck bawls anyway, so it's debatable if they're really any benefit. Standard practice with carb rebuilds is usually tear down, solvent wash, reassemble with new gaskets, new needle/seat, and maybe a new float. You set the float and adjustments to a baseline, and put it on the car. Then you get to start in with the vacuum gauge and adjust everything until the fast idle and regular idle are right, and the mixture is about right. With the Qjet it's all about the hanger and rods, along with jets to get the rough tuning adjusted for the car. Beyond that you can run into problems like broken and weak springs, corrosion and blocked passages that you can't get clean with a spray can or over-the-counter, pussified EPA friendly carb cleaners, and simply worn out linkages that you can't really correct at home unless you have a bucket of spare parts. That's why you buy a remanned carb, or go to the squirrely looking character that works in your local carburetor shop, who has mountains of carb parts piled all over and a 'system'. There are few things you really need an expert specialist for, but rebuilding a Qjet is pretty high up there. For a carb they're fairly intricate. A tech that's telling you to convert to EFI is probably not the person I'd ask to magician a Qjet back to like new again.
Pull the aircleaner off and take some pics of the carb, that should be enough to id it as a Qjet, Carter, Holley, etc.
There's a lot to be said in favor of the current crop of aftermarket, self-learning, easily tunable FI units on the market. If you aren't concerned with keeping the car period-correct, and have the $$$ for the conversion, you have another option to consider.
Parts value alone is worth way more than that. Just sayin; I'm not suggesting you do anything other than putting that car back on the road; it's much better than just a parts car.
I'm not concerned at all as this car wasn't born as anything special. I would love an LS but I don't want to end up having the car off the road for years while I figure out my head from my a**. Maybe instead of converting this motor (assuming it's the original LG4), a simple tbi 5.7 could set me up with enough power to not be frustrated, while also being reliable and straight forward enough to swap in. Thoughts?
Also ya, no way I'm parting this car out. I'm not an expert body guy by any means, but I do have access to a professional detail bay and I'm SUPER **** about making things look good, so I'm pretty confident that once I put the interior together and give the paint on this car some attention, she'll be looking 100x better than now.
Assuming the carb is original to the car... Which is a bold assumption, since we don't know that anything is original to the car yet.
Q-jets don't have tags to the best of my knowledge, if they did, they were long gone by the time I got to them. There's a stamped part number that will get you close. Usually the year of the car is part of the part number, IIRC.
There's a bit in the older Haynes/Chiltons manuals, but the older manuals kinda suck bawls anyway, so it's debatable if they're really any benefit. Standard practice with carb rebuilds is usually tear down, solvent wash, reassemble with new gaskets, new needle/seat, and maybe a new float. You set the float and adjustments to a baseline, and put it on the car. Then you get to start in with the vacuum gauge and adjust everything until the fast idle and regular idle are right, and the mixture is about right. With the Qjet it's all about the hanger and rods, along with jets to get the rough tuning adjusted for the car. Beyond that you can run into problems like broken and weak springs, corrosion and blocked passages that you can't get clean with a spray can or over-the-counter, pussified EPA friendly carb cleaners, and simply worn out linkages that you can't really correct at home unless you have a bucket of spare parts. That's why you buy a remanned carb, or go to the squirrely looking character that works in your local carburetor shop, who has mountains of carb parts piled all over and a 'system'. There are few things you really need an expert specialist for, but rebuilding a Qjet is pretty high up there. For a carb they're fairly intricate. A tech that's telling you to convert to EFI is probably not the person I'd ask to magician a Qjet back to like new again.
Pull the aircleaner off and take some pics of the carb, that should be enough to id it as a Qjet, Carter, Holley, etc.
In most situations I'd agree with you, but this guy is our Lamborghini tech that just happens to be a GM lover, specifically Camaros. Not just a cousin's best friend's brother who had an 84 GTA with a 5.7 and a 5 speed back when they were new. Regardless, this rebuilt may not even be necessary, we'll figure that out soon. Here are some pics of the bugger. I tried to get ones that showed the most, but if there's a better angle you need, I'll go take another
That's a computer controlled Quadra-jet. Note the solenoid at the passenger's front corner? On the driver's side behind the linkage you'll see the part number. Doesn't really matter, that's not a carb I'd waste time rebuilding, especially if the car isn't wired for it. The distributor is NOT a computer controlled distributor. One or the other isn't original.
That's a computer controlled Quadra-jet. Note the solenoid at the passenger's front corner? On the driver's side behind the linkage you'll see the part number. Doesn't really matter, that's not a carb I'd waste time rebuilding, especially if the car isn't wired for it. The distributor is NOT a computer controlled distributor. One or the other isn't original.
So would my next step be to see if this car HAS an ecm? If the dist isn't comp controlled, but the carb is, then ONE of those must be causing an issue, no? I'll go confirm, but from what you guys see, I bet the carb isn't original and the car doesn't have an ECM, hence my running issues. These may seem like stupid questions to you guys, but this is literally my first time trying to diagnose anything with a carb. Baby steps
I've never had the opportunity, or sheer disrespect to try unplugging a CC Qjet. I'm not sure what would happen.
Usually if the car was built with the CC Qjet, you'll have wires hanging all over and melted/thrashed against hot and moving parts, or the stump of the harness sticking out of the passenger's inner fender.
I'd make sure the dist and carb at least match the same system. If something has to change to get there, the easiest solution that makes reasonable sense would be ideal.
I've never had the opportunity, or sheer disrespect to try unplugging a CC Qjet. I'm not sure what would happen.
Usually if the car was built with the CC Qjet, you'll have wires hanging all over and melted/thrashed against hot and moving parts, or the stump of the harness sticking out of the passenger's inner fender.
I'd make sure the dist and carb at least match the same system. If something has to change to get there, the easiest solution that makes reasonable sense would be ideal.
I just spent some time doing some looking and discovered a few gremlins. The wire to (control the choke?) had been taken off and the plastic connector was broken, and the choke itself had been twist tied open. I connected the wire as well as I could and took the twist tie off, but the choke didn't really seem to move at all while the car idled. The idle itself was also trash, and it sounds like only 6 cylinders are firing. The plug wires feel ancient and 2 were resting against the manifold, so first order of business is to order a full tune up. It also started at the first flick of the key, ran SUPER rich, and the oil reeks of gas, so an oil change is also going to shake down to get some of the damn gas out of the motor. Take a look at the motor pics I posted before and you'll see a sensor in front of the air cleaner that plugs in where the thermostat is. Is that just a temp sensor or? It isn't hooked up to anything, but the temp gauge seems to work fine.
The sensors in the thermostat housing and intake are generally for things like the EGR and the flapper in the exhaust. Potentially AIR injection, which if you have it can just as easily be removed. Search around for a vacuum diagram and that'll cover most of it. The exhaust flapper, if its' still there, is probably best wired full open. The rest I'd probably delete in the interest of sanity. The early systems are complicated enough that if they're already hacked up, I'd probably finish the job and set it up as if it were any other V8 without all that stuff.
I had a free sec yesterday to mess around with the interior, and I at least got it looking a little better. I went through the pile of stuff that was packed in the hatch, and found all of my interior pieces with numerous sets of newly recovered rear speaker covers, floor mats, ttop bag, and a few other odds and ends. There was also a brand new replacement radio surround which is a nice little score. The plastic rocker covers that go along the edge of the carpet are broken in a bunch of spots so they'll stay off until I can find proper replacements, which I may have already found. In my investigations, I also found that like most of them, my ttop surround is pretty rotten in a few spots. Can't be perfect for $1200.
I was able to chat with the person who owned the car a few years back, and got good and bad news. Good news is that he daily drove it for a few years and said that everything was pretty healthy with the exception of window motors getting tired and general stuff of that nature. Bad news is that he's pretty sure he remembers some pretty serious rot in the rear end somewhere. I haven't had the car on a hoist yet but from looking underneath and taking a million videos to see without crawling around, I don't see anything remotely concerning. He had an 88' GTA at the same time and admits that he isn't even sure if he's thinking of the right car, which is fair given his age and the fact that he sold the car a few years ago. I didn't buy the car from him so there's no reason to lie to me or hide anything, and from chatting with him, he seems like a pretty upfront guy. When I get the car up on a hoist we'll see how it really looks, but honestly I'm pretty confident that he's thinking of the wrong car. If there's integral rust somewhere that's serious enough for him to make note of it, then I don't see how the rest of the underside could still be so clean
I really like this car. Id look for a good running Vortec 350 to freshen up and put a mild cam in, headers, performer intake + 650 Holley. This car has lots of potential-Great score!
I really like this car. Id look for a good running Vortec 350 to freshen up and put a mild cam in, headers, performer intake + 650 Holley. This car has lots of potential-Great score!
Thank you! I'm getting somewhat attached to it too. It's my first square nose T/A and I'm enjoying going through it, despite the issues. If it's solid and I end up hanging on to it, I'd love to have a 350 in it. Just trying to get it's current dog at least running enough where I can put the car through it's paces
Well I finally got the car up on a hoist this morning and ended up with good news and bad news. Good news is that it's 13 degrees and sunny today so at least spring is on it's way. The bad news is that the car looks like hell underneath. The patches on the floors are horribly done, there's a small chunk of the sub frame that's cracked, and though it's definitely fixable, I'm not looking to take on a project like this. The rest of it is in great shape, so I'm betting that the floor rot was just from the ttops letting water in and sitting. It'll be an excellent project for someone, but just not me. First person with $1400 will get it as that's exactly what I have in to it
Sold the car in less than 10 minutes! Agreed to give it a tune up for the new buyer, and it ended up running great enough where I couldn't help but send it sideways down the road. Pulling the tops off and having a third gen sideways does something special to the soul, and I'll have another one to fill that spot soon enough. Until then, here's a pic of the car after finally getting a good bath.
The car's officially in it's new home, and there's one last update that I'd like to add. I was dealing with a guy who planned on buying the car for a high school shop class that he teaches, but his son ended up buying the car as his first car / project. His dad's a mechanic and has plenty of welding experience, so the patches underneath are no issue to them. The thing about this whole experience is that as I was leaving their house, his dad told me that his son had been ill for some time (cancer I assume), and having that car has lit him up more than he's seen in a while. Even when I first got there and took them for a quick drive, he was lit up with an ear to ear grin. Usually I'm not this soft, but these guys really seemed like great people, and I'm honestly beyond happy that the car went to them instead of anyone else.
With the typical post sale stories of cars getting parted or wrecked or flipped, I thought I'd share a good one for once!
The GTA thread is sitting with the GTA itself.. abandoned in a place that I don't care to rescue it from. Car got hit in the front end so it needs a nose, fender, door, and possibly a head light just to repair that damage. The interior is also trashed and mismatched, and the hatch is spray bombed black and spoiler-less. The *** is also sunken right to the ground so unless the gas tank is just SUPER full, something's broken, and someone else can fix it.
The car's officially in it's new home, and there's one last update that I'd like to add. I was dealing with a guy who planned on buying the car for a high school shop class that he teaches, but his son ended up buying the car as his first car / project. His dad's a mechanic and has plenty of welding experience, so the patches underneath are no issue to them. The thing about this whole experience is that as I was leaving their house, his dad told me that his son had been ill for some time (cancer I assume), and having that car has lit him up more than he's seen in a while. Even when I first got there and took them for a quick drive, he was lit up with an ear to ear grin. Usually I'm not this soft, but these guys really seemed like great people, and I'm honestly beyond happy that the car went to them instead of anyone else.
With the typical post sale stories of cars getting parted or wrecked or flipped, I thought I'd share a good one for once!
Well it was nice to see the car in person once, before you sold it. I'm glad you found a great home for the car, it was certainly better than a parts car, and in the right hands, can be restored back to it's former glory. I'm sure the right GTA will come along for you one of these days.
Unfortunately, since you've sold the Trans Am, I'm gonna need the
book that I let you borrow back until you buy another Firebird/ Trans Am. Just kidding. I'll take you for a ride in my GTA in mid April when my car is back out for the summer.
Well it was nice to see the car in person once, before you sold it. I'm glad you found a great home for the car, it was certainly better than a parts car, and in the right hands, can be restored back to it's former glory. I'm sure the right GTA will come along for you one of these days.
Unfortunately, since you've sold the Trans Am, I'm gonna need the High Performance Firebirds 1982-1988 book that I let you borrow back until you buy another Firebird/ Trans Am. Just kidding. I'll take you for a ride in my GTA in mid April when my car is back out for the summer.
Oh you need that back? I already used page 7 as a lasagna tray...
03-03-2020, 01:00 PM
