AudiGary

Hi there. Tried to fit pertinent info into the title box.


I'm a German car guy, but I have ALWAYS wanted a third gen IROC or T/A since I was a kid. I have spent the past 4+ months searching high and low for a neglected candidate to fix up, even considered a 1985 Berlinetta LT because the underside was solid. I considered a few 6 cylinder RS cars I would just swap to LS since being an import guy I do tons of swaps, wiring and etc with silly complex turbo german junk. I *HAD* to have a hard top car, as I think t tops are cool but .... well ....... I just don't like the idea of skinny roof and twist. Just prefer the normal hard top look as well. Apparently I missed the boat as nice clean cars are now commanding good dollar. So I went searching for something with solid undersides, but ugly haggard interior and exterior. I got just that.


So two nights ago I ended up in a backyard, looking at two birds. A 1988 GTA 305 TPI t-top car with gold mesh wheels and a 1989 hard top T/A, GTA, not even sure what it is but it had the l98 motor and black mesh wheels. I picked up the carpet looked under the car and felt around as much as I could. It was very solid for my bare bones broke divorce child support and alimony cheap budget. I fell right in love with this ratty neglected abandoned hard top car. The car did not run, it would fire on starting fluid and has sit since about 2007 to 2008. The guy basically said take it, so I did. When I got it home I started to inspect things today after work and I found some oddities.

NO RPO CODE SHEET! Not in the center console, not under the drivers rear plastic trim in the hatch...... I am not even sure the center console is original.

Someone told me the build sheet is under the rear seats? I picked them up folded them forward some and found mouse crap, acorns, and carpet. Is that under the carpet?


It has aluminum finned rear calipers.

It has crusty long tube headers with EGR that ALMOST look like some sort of factory headers. Not sure if such a thing existed.

The trans pan is some sort of box chrome thing. Not a stamped 700R4 pan from what my research shows.

It has a massive 3" or so exhaust.

It has a maroon nose cone, maroon front fenders from a cosmetic only accident. The maroon cone has foglights.

It has A/C on the L98 motor also.

Can someone help me identify what this thing is exactly? I basically want to restore it to original 1989 glory with a factory cassette deck and cruise around with my girlfriend, hit up muscle car meets and such because well.... I never fit in with the import crew and now achieved the child hood dream of a third gen.


Pics for clicks coming.

AudiGary

I just tried sticking a magnet to the driveshaft and it wouldn’t stick. Same with spare tire in rear wheel well. It has some triangular braces from the front I member to the unibody.

No RPO codes in center console, none in rear cubby. No build sheet under rear seats.

Can i I take the vin to a Chevrolet dealer tomorrow? I was told it’s a 1989 T/A 8th digit is 8, doesn’t have GTA badging on the original front fender.

Here are pics of this abandoned neglected beast. It’s in **** poor shape with lots of wiring hacks and surprisingly only a small floorboard hope with minor surface underneath. Bolts for every suspension component look untouched. Anti roll bars are massive.

be patient with me, this is my first third gen.


Rusted primer roof

Haggard bird

Maroon nose from cosmetic accident

Maroon passenger side fender

Vin 8 for L98

Wrecked interior


This hatch has tried to kill me twice

Rust primer and neglect

Original drivers fender

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

Looks like you have a 5.7 Trans Am. Definitely not a GTA. The headers look like Edelbrock headers. They made them for all the emissions stuff. Aluminum spare was pretty common. Aluminum driveshaft wasnt very common. You said you have rear disc brakes....should have 3.27 rear gears.

JT

iTrader: (1)

Unless the car was an export, you likely won't be able to retrieve the RPO codes from any GM dealer as the records aren't accessible. If you have the VIN, you can send it to me via PM and I'll check. Most likely it won't turn up.

You can order a copy of the factory invoice from GM Media Archive at the following link but it will not contain every single RPO code - only some of the major ones:
http://www.gmmediaarchive.com/?page=1

It would appear to be a 1989 Trans Am and if the 8th digit is 8, then it's the L98/B2L/350. Almost all options on the GTA was also available on the Trans Am. So a 30 year old car with parts that could have been replaced and the similarities, it sometimes is not a 100% guarantee without documentation. But If the driver's side fender is original, then it is a Trans Am as no GTA had the fender vent or the "Trans Am" sticker. It also has the non-ultima seats to further suggest a Trans Am and not GTA as GTAs all had the ultima seats.

According to Robert Casey's book there was approximately 613 1989 Trans Ams with the L98. The aluminum drive shaft was not too uncommon. Many ThirdGens received it. 305 or 350.

Buildsheets were not always included inside the vehicle. Any buildsheets that might be in the car, there is no guaranteed location as it varied.

AudiGary

Thanks a ton folks. PM incoming with the vin. I love this T/A it’s going to get done *RIGHT* as a period correct as a cruiser. I plan to keep it forever. I’d like to keep the L98 also.

it balances out my car collection. I needed some America.

for grins here is my 6spd sport package stripped down 135i an actual rare car. It’s a blast but doesn’t have that American V8 solid axle vibe.


6spd manual with the sport package. 2000-3000 hard top twin turbo cars made it to this country from 2008-2010. Actually rare.


Heres a swapped gutted 1998 A4 Quattro wagon that makes 500whp with a 60mm turbo.


Rust free southern car originally a 2.8 automatic. Looks stock, Rips all 4. Makes no power below 4500.



The German stuff is pretty cut and dry for options and “packages”. All the RPO code and options these third hens and GM does confuses me like crazy.

AudiGary

Did trans am goods have vents? I thought not. If not it has a black GTA hood on it then as well. Everything underneath is untouched and crusty.

JT

iTrader: (1)

The GTA and Trans Am shared the same hood.

RKeats

Pretty cool, not a lot of L98 T/A's out there. Any idea why the roof is black? Looks like there's red underneath so it's probably still original. Maybe a questionable cosmetic preference? Either way, looking forward to seeing this car come back to life!

AudiGary

The previous owner said he put primer over the rust and used naval jelly on it. Single stage rattle can stuff. As soon as I get the lack of fuel issue sorted out and it can move around I have a couple other vehicles to sort little things on and paint correct. After that I’ll take care of this external rust right and at least do some catalyzed epoxy primer over the roof and A pillars for now. The minimal rot underneath is getting cut and welded. Minor surface here or there on the unibody itself.

Long term will see ground effects removed and the car taken to bare metal for proper modern epoxy primer and modern paint in the factory color.

I also want to remove all the dried 80’s seam sealer and dried undercoating to use some Wurth seam sealer and wurth undercoating. Good German stuff I’ve used. The actual paint and primer for the final job I will leave to the pros along with the patch it needs underneath.

Wax spray in body cavities, etc.

AudiGary

Did some misc clean up. Previous owner hacked the unibody up for fuel pump access 😑 I need to get hatch struts so the thing doesn’t fall on me and kill me while I figure out the fuel issue. Weatherpack fuse by battery is good and 20amp. Car is getting minimal to no fuel at the rail. I pressed the rail schraeder valve and had a little dribble out once then nothing. Smelled like bad OLD gas. Oil smells like old gas also, quite a bit. Going to drain it and put cheap Walmart 10w30 in with a fram while fueling issue is diagnosed and remediated.. Fuel filter under car is shiny and not too old, bought another in case. Flare nuts to filter are crusty. Need PB blaster.

Trans fluid is dark doesn’t smell burnt. Have a new filter and going to do the drain fill and pull cooler return line, keybump a quart out at a time then add a quart until it comes out clean.

Hatch struts next before anything else. All the body grounds are super crusty.


Precious owner at some point used an AN fitting t to tee the brake booster into the PCV or give versa to a vacuum feed on the intake. Is this factory? I removed it and left the PCV open to atmosphere for now. Ran brake booster right to the manifold since check valve sits in booster itself.

This looks like a cold start injector but there’s nothing in the harness for it.

Going to need a new MAF. The pins on the harness side are nice and tarnished also. Will have to fix that.

Ripped out the smog pump, EGR setup and picked up the dayco belt to reroute around the now removed useless garbage. Makes working on the passenger side much easier. Looks cleaner too. Going to cap the header valves after they soak in PB blaster.

JT

iTrader: (1)

The side port on the lower intake in your picture (next to the fuel injector) should run directly to the PCV valve on the driver's side valve cover.

The power brake booster plugs into a port on the rear, driver's side, of the upper intake near the distributor.

Yes, you're correct in identifying the cold start injector. It shouldn't be there since it's a 1989, which is the first year of it being removed. Previous years had it because the fuel injectors weren't pulsed long enough by the ECM to easily start a cold engine. In 1989 the programming was changed and so the cold start injector isn't used or present. A previous owner must have changed out some parts at some point.

AudiGary

Thanks again. My next step was to unbolt the plastic distributor cover extension on the manifold and dig around there. I want to solve any vacuum leaks before it gets fuel to minimize potential issues although I’m sure there will be plenty of issues. Going to get a fel pro plenum gasket set and new lower injector seals maybe upper too. Pry them out, I’m sure they’re all plastic by now.

are the L98 injectors the same size, flow rate and voltage offset for all L98 cars? I suppose I should try to find casting numbers on the block next. It has iron heads so it’s not a corvette motor.

in the spirit of the extra injector there is also an extra coolant temp sensor on the front of the block near the water pump. Seems an earlier motor was probably swapped in.

AudiGary

Time to commit heresy. Sticking a turbo Audi fuel pump in the T/A. Why?





1. I’m broke

2. It’s sitting collecting dust and has 5-10k miles if that.

3. It’s a turbine style pump

4. It didn’t lean out until 350 AWHP with 60psi rail and 15psi boost

5. If a walbro fits this will fit. Done plenty of walbro GSS340 into Audi’s




Hatch struts come tomorrow and SAEJ30R10 as well. This should allow a pulse damper delete without the associated fuel and tune issues that show up, at least on German vehicles.




I picked up NGK copper plugs. Will I need header plugs with these edelbrock headers it has?


Steps to get it to run:

Continue to fix obvious vacuum leaks tonight.


Tomorrow: Pre game: swap new pump in, inspect rubber lines in tank and from. Try to use old pump to evacuate ancient gas from tank. If it burns up it burns up. See how rusty if rusty the tank is. Possibly coat inside or new tank time. Check for magical baffles in tank, legendary baffles.

1. Start and let it warm up a bit, shut down immediately, after listening for bottom end or top end noise that sounds catastrophic say spun rod bearing spun main etc.

if good then;

2. Dump the fuel contaminated old oil, refill with generic 10w30, fresh Fram filter.

3. pump tons of Techron through it with the old plugs, “sea foam” it with GDI cleaner. Say 3-4 gallons of fresh top tier 93 with two large bottles of Techron. and possibly pull injectors and clean them with a small pressurized cleaning setup I built using berrymans b12. That’s If they don’t clean up good and it doesn’t sound good after heavy Techron.

4. Fresh cheap 10w30 oil. 3.50$ carquest filter Then liqui moly engine flush it twice with fresh oil each time to free the rings (I saw a lot of carbon inside the PCV ports on valve covers so I’d bet the rings are sticky and gunked in if the baffles look that bad) I’m sure the oil passages are restricted a bit with ancient oil crud.

5. Refill with liqui moly 10w40 MOS2 oil, and a good filter say WIX.

6. Drain trans. Drop pan, drop old filter and clean well. New gasket new filter and fill. Pull cooler return line, key bump 1qt out at a time and shut off then add one quart until it’s clean to gently flush torque converter. When it’s done, reconnect, let it burp, check level and leave it alone.

7. Clean all electricals, fix various electrical issues clean ECU pin header, etc etc all over clean fuse box and fuses, sanitize the entire system. Upgrade cheesy factory 14 gauge ground. Just overall cleaning and improvement.

7. Find used tires and title/tag it.

8. Brake hard lines and rubber lines looked ok. Rotors are solid rust. Will deal later. Turkey baster old brake fluid out and order speed bleeders, flush the probably 1989 or 1995 brake fluid.

Thats enough for now. Getting it safe enough and roadworthy.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Once the gas tank and fuel pump issues are sorted, put a gallon or 2 of gasoline in it, and a gallon of lacquer thinner (acetone or methyl ethyl ketone also work well).

Change the oil filter and add a quart of auto trans fluid to the oil before starting it. Let it run long enough for the motor to get to full temp if possible, shut it down. Let it sit for a couple of days. Start it up again and let it get warm again. Change the oil & filter. The ATF will dissolve a good bit of the crud in the crankcase and free things up. Use 10W-30 oil not 10W-40; just regular stuff, nothing special like moly or any of that, except maybe use Mobil1. Doing this will also fill the entire fuel system with the solvent and flush it out; much of the crud will go to the tank, but of course some will inevitably end up in the injectors. Take them off after this and send them out for cleaning & flow-matching, or replace them. Stock, they are 22 lb/hr; can't recall exactly how many cc/min that is if the ones you have access to are measured that way, but if memory serves, the conversion is somewhere near about 10.25:1, so that should be around 225 cc/min. You could even put in Bosch light blue top 24 lb/hr (250 cc/min or so) ones, although they might be a different enough height to need some adapting; with the headers it may benefit from the slight bit of additional fuel.

Brake caliper pistons are likely rusted and corroded and frozen up. Rubber lines are likely rusted inside and won't pass fluid. Expect to have to replace every single piece of the system, maybe even some of the hard lines if the car has been sitting long enough to dig into the ground.

I don't think those headers will cause any trouble with the plugs, they didn't in my car anyway. I had the plug wires run in the factory configuration though, which is down underneath he headers, not over the top of the valve covers like that rat's nest you have there. Might need to replace those to run them correctly and get them to really fit right.

You'll almost certainly need to change the coolant and flush the block. Remove the drain plugs to do this; the drain plug on the passenger side is actually the knock sensor, the one on the driver's side is directly opposite the knock sensor, remove BOTH to fully drain and flush the block. Might need to poke accumulated crud and rust out of the drain holes with a piece of wire or something. I'd strongly recommend replacing all the coolant hoses (radiator hoses, heater hoses, oil cooler hoses if they are not still the OE silicone stuff).

AudiGary

i have a bad liqui moly habit from German cars. The stuff is really really really good. Not terribly expensive. If this isn’t a roller motor it needs ZDDP or tons of moly. It has a cold start injector so it may be a flat tappet. 87+ were roller if I remember right. Correct?

the liqui moly engine flush is really really good stuff it breaks carbon chunks into liquid, I know ATF does the same but I use liqui moly on cars with variable Valve timing and tiny passages for the **** VTEC. I bet ATF would show me where every bad seal and gasket is fast because I’m sure there’s crud sealing this motor up in places.

They did good enough to stop the car rolling off the flatbed. But we will see I’m sure they’re nasty inside.

good to hear. The coolant is bright green but that doesn’t mean it isn’t restricting passages and corroded.

I appreciate all the help and good will from you folks. A V8 is semi foreign to me but I’ve spend 21 years working on German cars with crazy wiring.

i read the fuel pump is triggered by oil pressure on these and the fuel relay can be dead and it still triggers to prime and run? Now THAT is foreign to me. I’m a bit confused on that one. The ECU just ground a pin and primes then runs the pump on German stuff. No oil pressure? No care, it gets fuel.

This has me thrown a loop in my fuel troubleshooting.

off to get hatch struts and proper in tank 5/16” hose will be posting pictures of this adventure shortly once hatch struts are done the access hole is there and it’s tank opening time. 👍🏻

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

That engine "should" have a roller cam. But we all know how that is. ZDDP isn't much of an issue with it.

I wouldn't worry too much about leaks. Note that ATF also softens rubber seals and makes them swell a bit, and so will help restore seals a little bit. But if you have leaks, just change the gaskets or whatever.

If you hack the smog pump off, don't forget to put a bolt back in this hole, with a drop of sealer on the threads.



Otherwise you WILL have an ENORMOUS oil leak that's hard to figure out where it's coming from.

AudiGary

Holy **** thank you...... that looks like a catastrophic loss of oil pressure hole. I’ll have to do that before I start it.

AudiGary

Finally. Now to see if the motor works to latch it. and of course the rear trunk lock is knocked out in pieces.


No more death risk.

AudiGary

This is comical. Pictures speak for themselves.


Large hole..... way too big.

So you change the fuel pump...... but leave all the new bits required in the bag? Corbit clamps, in tank line, insulator, new O-ring.... and leave ancient rotted feed hoses from the metal lines on assembly to body lines..... 🤷🏻*♂️😑



Literally all the new new accessories are still in a bag in the hatch.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Humans... what a species. I hope the next planet I get assigned to has a life form with some degree of rationality and intelligence.

That bolt hole doesn't actually have oil pressure behind it; but if you look closely at the photo, you can see that it's right behind the fuel pump mounting boss. The fuel pump drive rod goes through a passage up to the cam, and that bolt hole ends in that passage. When changing a mechanical fuel pump for a carb, you can put an extra-long bolt into that hole to hold the drive rod up, to make it easier to get the pump in under it. There's always oil in that passage, usually just a little, coming off of the cam eccentric which is tight behind the front cam bearing. But in some blocks you can actually look into the bolt hole with a bright light and see the crankshaft. The hole will SPEW oil when the motor is running at speed, but not idling (or at least only very little); and the oil gets slung EVERYWHERE down the pass side of the engine down low and coats EVERYTHING. The way it behaves makes it quite difficult to trace.

AudiGary

Indeed my friend. I am not an elitist but Jesus the level of **** done here is absurd.

Many ideas on how to clean this tank out without dropping the entire thing? I can maybe disconnect the harness under car and jumper the pump to suck whatever cleaning agent out. Going to need chemical proof rubber gloves it smells NASTY.

Oh boy look at this **** here.

note the pressure leak and non submersible fuel hose used..... when the pump came with submersible hose. Look at this corrosion sweet lord have mercy.


🤮

Wasn’t even clamped on the pipe

Non submersible hose and not fuel injection clamps..... pressure leak and probably ran lean a long time before it died if it even ran.


May be why the sender reads full always. That’s amazing.









the green powder corrosion is all over the inside of the tank. Not much actual rust if any. Fuel is yellow brown and gross.

AudiGary

Got a Chinese carquest pump for 45$. Going to use it to pump the tank out. I attached the brake booster hose to the fully open vacuum port on the back of manifold. As thought massive vacuum leak there. 👍🏻

Reconnected the pcv on the drivers head to the port it goes to for now.

The accessory bracket appears to cover the bolt hole spoken of earlier the smog pump has ears and long bolts only. No worries about oil leak there unless the bracket comes off.

pump was dead. Fuel system presssurized fine with key on and new pump jammed in with new sock. I traced lines and connected the return and feed. Time to fire it up and see if it even chugs on ancient gas. Then shut off jumper fuel pump and drain tank into old fuel can until dry. Then remove pump assembly AGAIN, wipe corrosion out of tank etc and go get fresh 93 in a clean gas can and fill.

Pics.


Feed and return connected for now later will seal this stupid hack setup as proper as possible. Eventually I want a new pump setup with proper hard lines or to at least flare these and offset them. Ugh.

Smog delete belt with routing. Thanks third gen tech articles!

MAF and vacuum hoses connected proper with help from y’all. Thanks again. Would have missed giant vacuum port under plastic cover over distributor

Here we go it should run today.

see if it chugs or fires on old gas real quick then tank drain clean out as best as I can in car and fresh 93.

AudiGary

Won’t crank. Doors and hatch open dome light did me in and who knows probably another parasitic draw to chase down.

AudiGary

🐁 Chewed some wiring at the starter

LeonardS

You are doing a great job of hunting down the problems!

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

That fornicated wiring at the starter is one of the fusible links that feeds battery toward the fusebox and everything else... looks like it needs some more or less immediate attention. Might even be the root cause of the no-crank.

AudiGary

Ugh. Tried turning the motor by the crank pulley 16mm it wouldn’t budge. Pulled all plugs except passenger side nearest firewall.

Drivers fourth nearest firewall was SOAKED.

middle two dry.

front slightly wet.

passenger side:

First and second tiny bet wet

third soaked

fourth unknown

last year a stupid guest of the house was mentally ill and literally threw my floor jack in the trash. I have to go run and get one to drain the oil.

The oil oil was over full and very full of gas. Great!

pics:

Loads of gas up the stick.


Oil had gas prior not this much.


Stuck injector or two? Now that it has fuel pressure to the rail and the pump is pressurizing.

i also need to validate base timing or distributor base point and the plug wires firing order. Could be way off too.

if it seized it seized during starting. If so I’ll try marvel mystery oil in the plug holes maybe.

ughhhhhhh not fun.

Going to try and turn it over by hand now with 7 of 8 plugs out. Then drain oil and after getting a floor jack and dinner.

if it isn’t seized hopefully it didn’t bend a rod hydrolocking at such a low RPM.

always something with old cars.plan deviation.

AudiGary

Still won’t turn by hand with 7/8 plugs out. I feel any harder I will snap the 16mm crank pulley bolt.

I wonder if the starter is seized with the gear out and engaged? It looks very original!

AudiGary

Thanks man. I feel like 21 years of mechanically injected shitbox volkswagens and German electronics with picky super sensitive to vacuum or boost leak ECU tunes have prepared me.

Not knowing things like firing order, rocker ratios/pushrod V8 experience and tricks to getting plugs under headers out hindered me. Something completely new in ways. I ended up with a 19mm 12pt wrench in spark plug socket end for some. Last passenger side plug has to come out from under the car.

new adventure.

it may. I have a reman starter and will be putting it on jackstands tomorrow to swap that bulky heavy starter out. The weight of it was crazy, buddy said he couldn’t turn his 383 striker by hand when starter died thought it was seized but new starter it turned over. This starter looks 30 years old. Never touched and mouse snacked.

I’m praying and hoping the insane fuel in oil didn’t seize it. I only got to turn it over ONCE for 5-10 seconds before it stopped once the fuel pump was in. It never caught and fired up so 200-400rpm with that fuel and oil load in pan. That said I key on/off’d it maybe 5-8 times to bleed air and try to cycle old crap through filter with old gas in it prior to that 5-10 second keybump. Next keybump try it just dimmed the lights on gauges and nothing. Not even solenoid click.

either way starter is being done and wiring to it cleaned up a ton. It looks like every wire runs to one terminal on the starter? Is this factory or more stupid prior owner work? Everything German has a separate wire for solenoid and large heavy gauge for motor drive.

thoughts are stuck open injectors or firing order completely off causing fuel soaked plugs or BOTH. Since obvious basics like 3/8” open vacuum ports left open and what goes to it t’d into PCV we’re done I question everything now. Firing order off isn’t out the window and wouldn’t surprise me at all.

does the distributor have a base set point or do I need a timing light?

tomorow:

drain oil full of gas. Refill with 10w30. Spin on new filter with oil in it.

Remove starter, clean terminals and solder a new wire that mouse friend ate. 🐁

pull 8th spark plug.

Remove olastic distributor cover and validate firing order mark each wire end with tape and throw the new matches autolite plug wires that came in a box with the car on.

pull fuel feed line attach 3ft of hose and feed pump 12v until tank is empty. Wipe tank out and add 3-4 gallons of fresh top tier name brand 93.

unplug fuel pump and see if it turns over by starter.

get a new battery if it doesn’t then turn over. IF that doesn’t do it than potentially seized motor. We will see.

Battery is charging overnight 2-5amp trickle. It won’t go past 85% so it could be trashed also. It’s insane how such a tiny battery is used on a car with a large starter. I know it didn’t have a huge electrical load in 1988. But still.

6/18 stamp on battery but it came with car and POteying to get it started.

i lean toward leaky injectors maybe because Schrader valve dribbled fuel again when needle was pressed, it should spray with pressure after priming pump a few times.

Il guessing it’s a few things. Leaky injectors firing order off.

do these things run without a MAF connected? BOSCH ECU German machinery has base maps for a dead MAF that do TPS or TPS plus speed density/MAP. A jazzed MAF could tell it to pour fuel in, or jazzed coolant temp sensor.

more fun to come.

AudiGary

Have a new reman starter here. Before I even did that wiring or dropped the old one I wanted to take care of very basics here. Battery is fully charged 13.1v after two days of trickle charging.

So I did some basic electrical cleaning. New 4 gauge side mount battery cable. Wire wheeled the battery “buttons” the side mount flange presses against both hot and ground inside the battery until shiny.


Pulled the ground bolt at the bottom of block, wire wheeled the surface the lug attaches too, wire wheeled the bolt head bottom and wire wheeled all the threads shiny on the main ground bolt.

Cut the cheesy factory ground cable and crimped it into new battery cable connector, wire wheeled the terminal end. Wire wheeled some bare metal on the crossmember hole it mounts in where it’s raised up so the crimp connector now clean has bare steel to hit. Wire wheeled the coarse thread 10mm head bottom and coarse thread 10mm threads super clean.

.1 ohm resistance from battery negative to alternator casing on an area I scraped clean, .1 ohm battery negative to 14 gauge chassis ground that I tied together with the other ground Next to it which was wire wheeled clean (now that’s battery direct grounded sandwiched)

i have ALMOST 13v on interior voltage gauge when key is switched before run to on. Pics.




New ground cable and ground check for resistance unloaded at the new sandwich chassis ground all clean.

SHINY AND CHROME!

Battery negative to alternator casing unloaded

Battery voltage at ancient gauge with key switched to on.





This makes me a bit happier. They noise it makes with the key in doesn’t sound garbled strangled and weak anymore. The lights that come on the dash are amazingly bright.

Drained the gas and oil in crankcase. Tons of it probably 9quarts. Lovely.

More soon.


Factory oil cooler and heat exchanger.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Stop throwing parts at it, and focus on why the crank won't turn. If you think the starter is binding things up, pull it and try turning the crank. Usually you can just grab the serpentine belt and pull and the crank will turn. If it doesn't, take the belt off the tensioner and try turning the pulley again. If the crank don't turn, don't bother with anything else because the engine is probably junque.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Have you checked the fuel psi regulator for fuel leaking through vac line into the plenum ?

Pulling the gauge cluster and cleaning the contacts on the printed circuit really help gauge readings a lot too.

AudiGary

Not turning at all. Starter out. All 8 plugs out. It’s probably ****ing seized from a stuck injector and fuel being dumped into oil. It turned over prior and then stopped.

Yay.

AudiGary

Yep. No fuel being sucked in via FPR vacuum feed is dry as a bone. The leak is probably a stuck 1-9 injector. It sat forever.

Got the tank drained.

Its seized. Not sure if crank or rings. Probably both with my luck.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Really odd. Normally injs fail shut or gum shut. Either way, good luck!

Also, 89s didn't have a cold start inj so the rail has been replaced or its a leftover 88 engine in a 89 car

JT

iTrader: (1)

What you don't read my posts, Tony? I pointed that out earlier in the thread

I think the VIN is too high for it to have been an early 1989 with a 1988 engine. Of course checking the code on the right-front of the engine to see if it matches will atleast tell if the block is original to the car or if the entire engine was changed out.

AudiGary

It has a cold start injector AND an extra coolant temp sensor on the front of the intake manifold that’s not connected to anything.

The starter was a bitch to get out I dropped the solenoid off the old one while in there.

My my thoughts are the fuel leak diluted the oil enough to cause it to stick but it was only 200-500rpm cranking. It wasn’t at operating temp or high rpm.

Let me
jam this new starter in after I dremel the connections off and clean, then If it doesn’t crank let’s get creative to try and unseize it before it’s replacement time.

If it runs like **** after it runs like ****. I have the fuel pump disconnected anyways and tank near dry so that problem is solved. Fresh 10w30 Walmart oil and a fram in the sump. Looks like someone tried jacking the oil pan it’s pushed up 1/2 or so in the middle.

Yay antique project cars.

AudiGary

Yep. **** this. Cutting the y pipe. It’s welded solid to the headers anyways, so that will all have to be redone eventually. Not even fighting the starter subframe and crossover upside down with that heavy thing or pulling a solenoid to try and install where two hands don’t fit.

Sawzall time!

MrPackstin

iTrader: (9)

Take serpentine belt off and try to crank it.

AudiGary

Mill try this in the morning. I deleted the smog pump and did the belt routing as the third gen tech guide says with the proper dayco belt. That would be amazing if it spun. The oil and gas mix drained wasn’t full of moon shavings or magic bearing glitter.

Cant find my sawzall and a previous owner welded the headers to the downpipes 100% solid. As if engines don’t torque a certain way.

Yay antique car fun!

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Sleepy me missed it.. oops

AudiGary

Where is this code exactly? I will take a look at it. I can't recall if the motor refused to crank after I did the serpentine re-route post smog pump or not. When I get home I will pull the serpentine again and see if I can crank it by hand. I could have goofed belt routing, or an accessory suddenly stuck. I really think the excessive gas in oil may have caused it to seize starting. That would be cute. Buddy says to pull the valve covers and all to try and unseize it. I have to cut the Y pipe anyways, some prior Cletus welded the headers to it and then welded the Y pipe to the cat and rearward. I guess engines don't move under load or this is magical flexy metal.

Such awesome cars, but when they were all over and cheap people did some really stupid **** to them it seems. Just like everything else cool that ends up cheap for a while.

ironwill

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AudiGary

No liquid leaked out of the cylinders, but multiple plugs were soaking wet and a few were only a bit wet. It was stinky ancient gas. It seems to be leaking bad enough into the cylinders by just key on before start and priming fuel pump. I have the fuel pump/multi function fuse by battery pulled now and hotwired pump to drain the tank yesterday also to derust it.

Going to find my sawzall or borrow one to hack welded y pipe and install new starter. If that does not do it, and no crank I am pulling valve covers, intake and injectors etc. Intake/injectors have to come off anyways. Pop rockers, pushrods and all see if it turns. Then maybe unbolt headers, and then remove heads to pour some fun lubricant into the cylinders. I can try some deep creep or other lube in via plug holes.

The 16mm crank pulley bolt feels like it is going to snap whenever I try to turn it clockwise.

I'd like to try and unsieze it before the heads come off, fluids all get drained, and the hoist comes out. This was supposed to be get it running decent enough to park it next to the other project to be finished now it may be stuck in the prime parking spot at the house. Misses is not too happy about that.

ironwill

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TransamGTA350

iTrader: (2)

If it won't turn over with a long breaker bar on the crank pulley nut, a new starter motor isn't going to crank it over either. Don't risk damaging the starter gear or flywheel until the motor turns over freely.

The previous recommendation to remove the serpentine belt is a good one. I've seen a locked up alternator misdiagnosed as a seized motor.

I don't think cranking the motor over while flooding it with fuel caused it to seize. If it is seized, it's more likely that there was a lot of water in that old gas and if it sat in the cylinders for a while, the rings are probably rusted to the cylinder walls. If that's the case, squirt some ATF or Marvel Mystery Oil into the cylinders, let it sit for a couple of days and see if you can break it loose with the breaker bar.

AudiGary

It cranked fine prior to fuel pump install then once after install when pump was working. Then next try BAM nothing at all!

belt coming off when I get home. I did re route the belt per FAQ smog pump delete.

AudiGary

All accessories rotate fine and easy. Crank does not. I grabbed it with my hands and nothing.

I know these are timing chain motors, can a tensioner go slack and then jump timing? Are they interference?

Going to pop valve covers on it unbolt rockers and remove pushrods to see if it moves.

I can’t even get the injector harnesses off it’s sat so long.

TransamGTA350

iTrader: (2)

There’s no tensioner on the timing chain. It’s just a short chain with 2 sprockets. Unlikely the problem lies there.

A stuck open valve could be contacting a piston, but you would be able to rotate the crank in reverse until it came around again and hit. If it’s locked up in both directions, that’s not it.

Before pulling the valve covers, I would pull the distributor and try to rotate the crank. The camshaft runs the distributor which runs the oil pump. That will take the distributor and oil pump out of the equation.

How long did it sit from the last time it turned over until you tried it again and was locked up?

AudiGary

60 seconds