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This guy does! And what a car I hope it can be one day...
Hello all, I bought a Firebird from a neighbor a few months ago. Ive passed it by for years always wondering about it and finally struck up a conversation with the owner. Its a late year 1990 base model that he bought off the showroom floor with that limited 91-92ish front end and was disappointed to find just a 3.1 with rear drums. 43k on the gauge, older driver when purchased so almost 10 years of service records. Only thing that had ever been done to it was some unspecified exhaust work performed by a Midas for about $200 in 1998. A deal was struck and it began...
As she sat since sometime in 1998 when what I suspect is the VATS failed preventing the injectors from squirting but more on my scientific wild *** guess later, y`all aint heard about the great spider war that was waged while everyone was kungflu fighting.
From the front, my Harkonnen Devastator way back there out of danger.
Last edited by StratosFear1986; 07-02-2022 at 06:39 PM.
Reason: 1 by 1 the penguins steal my sanity....
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
(Continued)
A deal was struck, a flatbed rented and 4 brand new Falkens went on her to get it home only because white letter T/A`s are a bit expensive for a V6. Once home I discovered this car was a Trojan Horse for enormous brown recluse spiders that were in every nook and cranny they could fit. I mistook one for a mouse the first night running across the hood they were so big. I sat in the thing to steer it on the flatbed too! I ended up tying down a large tarp and set off 3 deep creep dry foggers(1 inside directed at a piece of wood so to not stain the headliner, one under the engine and the 3rd under the fuel tank) They didnt leave a residue or odor and after months now Ive not caught anything like that in glue traps I have everywhere. Still in the deep clean mode and assessing what parts she needs to get running. All the bushings and struts are going to need replacing, fuel gauge doesnt work, leaks fuel from above the tank, heavy surface rust on most suspension/steering parts but nothing some sandpaper and black paint wont fix.
It fits in just fine with the rest of the growing fleet of discontinued GM cars in the driveway that dont go anywhere either because I keep taking them apart.
And some of the mentionable POW`s that were executed.
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
So after a good wash on the outside Ive been taking parts out from the inside to clean and check out what Ive got. For the most part the interior looks remarkably new, all the plastic trim is intact and it even still has the roll up trunk screen and T-Top storage bags. Of course pull down motor doesnt work but the pop up headlights do and I freaking love that!
I did all the things one would expect to do on an engine that not ran for so long, did the "tune up" of wear parts, flushed and filled fluids, replaced filters, rotated by hand with spark plugs out ect. She cranks and runs like garbage for 1-2 seconds and thats when the leaking tank was found. Ive since dropped the rear end to find crusty drums, not digging that a bit, and pulled the gas tank and pump assembly out. Original pump too so I`m going to replace it before it goes back in as well as the straps. Its great theres so many source for parts for these cars, I`m used to having to JY treasure hunt for parts and pray to the car gods they were a 2 door when I got there.
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
Very nice, I also have the sickness for buying decrepit junkers. Mine came with only light vermin presence, but I did get the hostile mold package.
Try actuating the pull down motor trigger catch thing with a screwdriver. I thought mine was broke, but it was actually just stuck mid-cycle. Once I tripped it, it completed the cycle and came back up.
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
Im not usually huge on LS swaps but this car would be a hell of a sleeper with an LS between the fenders. I love the 91-92s and Its gona be a cool car Im sure
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
The hatch motor does work but theres some plastic parts in there that are completely disintegrated, looks like a rebuild kit has all those so not a huge deal. Yeah that 3.1 will have to have something done to it one day when funds allow for it. I want to make sure it stops real good first so I`m looking into rear disc brakes after I get it started and driving some.
The big one was from the night I fogged the car and was trying to get inside my house. It looked to be a wolf spider and the biggest I`d ever seen.
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
Looks like a great project. It is very difficult finding a later model Firebird with complete ground effects and a front bumper that wasn't drilled through. I would have purchased that too.
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
Originally Posted by 84 1LE
Great save, a v8 is in order. That cat bigger than normal too.
HA! Thats a tech checking out the broken lower trim piece on the front bumper/fender area unique to this brief 2 year model, I didnt even see him there when I took the pic.
I`ll update the thread soon, ive made some progress in spit shining a few things up. Yeah I`m starting to think an engine swap sooner rather than later, even with low miles this 3.1 cant be in the best of shape after sitting for so long.
Last edited by StratosFear1986; 11-09-2021 at 11:37 PM.
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
Originally Posted by soulbounder
Looks like a great project. It is very difficult finding a later model Firebird with complete ground effects and a front bumper that wasn't drilled through. I would have purchased that too.
That was a huge factor in deciding to go for it with having the vast majority of parts intact and no body damage save for that one spot on the rear bumper and a minor dent in the hood. Ive spent alot of time in the GM section at junkyards and have seen what sort of stupid things some have done as "repairs" to these 3rd gens first hand. My sort of mods will be more in line with improving reliability and strengthening the areas that will allow the car to last a very long time. Getting it into the driveway is the most important part, at least there I know it wont be crushed and recycled into something bland and boring.
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
Originally Posted by StratosFear1986
HA! Thats a tech checking out the broken lower trim piece on the front bumper/fender area unique to this brief 2 year model, I didnt even see him there when I took the pic.
Holy crap! talk about trick of the light or lens, still looks like a big cat though.
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
A small update lacking any pics. A small disaster occurred during a storm. I guess the wind blew the car off the jackstands or the 1000lb limit was BS but she came to rest on the ground bending the rusted trailing arms and jackstands. Using some scissor jacks I was able to lift it high enough to get the rear end reattached and the wheels on so it can sit proper. The rear bumper has a small crack in it on the underside and its scratched it some but it already was getting sanded and repainted anyways so really lucky thats all the damage.
The interior has been cleaned and a few of the rear suspension parts that are staying have been refinished. Ive got several parts on the way for the classic "tune up" as well as some goodies from Hawkes like the rear hatch rebuild kit and some seals for the TTops. I do want to replace the fuel pump and sender an an entire assembly and see options for the V8s and not for the V6s. Is there one that would work for both should I go the V8 swap route in the future to prevent having to buy another?
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
You'll want to confirm this because I'm not an expert on the v6, but it looks like your fuel injection system is designed to run at 43psi. If you plan on running a fuel injected v8, then you can get a pump that will work for both. If you plan on running a carbureted v8, you'll need a different pump that pushes out less PSI.
A common upgrade to a fuel injected system is a 255lph pump, which should support about as much hp as you can make n/a. I was thinking about a setup like this:
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
Powered up for the second time, the first time both lights popped up but the passengers sided dragged a bit. A few electrical issues to be expected like speakers and bulbs and the fan runs constantly but seems like easy things to figure out when I get there.
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
Ive got the fuel tank back in with a new Spectra unit and new rubber lines and clamps. I`ll go after market at some point to upgrade some suspension components but to save some cash I restored what I had. As awesome as the FSM is to have it could be a little bit more clear where the dang upper strut bolts are to the rear struts. The originals are surprisingly still good but the rubber bushing is mush so KBY it is.
...would likely have 3.42:1 gears, "LS" rear disc brakes, and perhaps a Zexel Torsen differential. You can run it as-is if you don't mind the extra 4th gen width. Or, transfer the carrier, gears and brakes to your third gen axles. Add a pair of 1992 3rd gen (28 spline) axles from Rock Auto, and you're in business.
At least I hope that's all true. Because that's my plan!
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
Tempting in the wrong way, a very bad wrong way. I`d have that in the driveway on jackstands as well, codes wouldnt be happy. I know its no V8 tire smoker but how is that a parts only car I wonder.
And Thanks a ton for posting in that particular way with that info, I dont want to be the "internet fix/mod my car" new guy as I like the learning curve,
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
I want life to be interesting so I am the way I am and the rest of the world gets to deal with it, just like many of the cars here from the signature specs and links.
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
Alright so in the latest update on WTF am I doing to this Firebird I bought that continues to sit...
No check engine light in "ON" and my Ebay find Actron tool will not connect to the ECM, so instead of trying the paperclip in the OBD port I bought another Actron that I confirmed works on a similar year `94 W-body Cutlass, another gorgeous derelict GM that sits next to this one. Yup FUBAR ECM. So now I`m contemplating a repair, a V8 swap or just find a big dude to hit me in the back of the head and put me down clean like Ole Yeller.
Will trade for a C5 Z06... not giving up yet.
Last edited by StratosFear1986; 06-25-2022 at 05:58 PM.
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
Originally Posted by StratosFear1986
Yup FUBAR ECM.
You'll have to do a little more diagnosis to know what's up here. It could be a failed ECM, but it could also be some other things (no power or ground to ECM come immediately to mind). Stick with it. You'll get there.
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
Oh yeah not giving up, I`m following the A-1 chart in the FSM for a no check engine light scenario. Ive tossed the rear end suspension together minus the flimsy 18mm sway bar(aint going to use it no ways) and got the front up in the air now. For a crank but no start I`m given a few things to check.
Continuous battery- fuse or link open
ECM ignition fuse open
Battery CKT 340 to ECM open
Ignition CKT 439 to ECM open
Poor connection to ECM (Probably not this one.)
The first thing to check is a 20A battery fuse that the FSM says is located on the cowl in a holder and also the ECM fuse which I`m assuming is in a box. I`m looking for the battery fuse now as I`m cleaning out the engine bay. Fingers crossed for a gnawed on wire! Its never JUST a blown fuse. I want to hear the glorious noise of a 3.1 roaring out of the cat converter for the 4th.
Edit: Found the fuse in question on the fender behind the air filter and coolant reservoir. The fuse is not blown and I get 11.5 volts when testing the socket, moving on to probe the ECM connector.
Last edited by StratosFear1986; 07-02-2022 at 11:48 AM.
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
I dont want to give an impression I`m frustrated, I enjoy this. 20 years walking by this car and its my mess to sort now and I know I`m close. I`m going to go through the tests again to confirm but according to the book its bad PCM grounds or bad PCM.
I ended up answering alot of my own confusion and couldnt delete the entire post which became unnecessary. Cant pull this engine out until I finish another car anyways.
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
Alright Ive got a working OBD and CEL on key "on". No codes stored my Actron can pull and I can view the live data. Looks like it was the PCM for whatever reason, got a nice core unit for em to rebuild.
On to the next issue, the fuel pump doesnt prime when the key is ON. But I think alot of the stuff posted here https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...mp-wiring.html, is relevant. Next step is to test that drivers side firewall relay and the oil pressure/fuel pump switch next to the oil filter and the grey wire leading back to the tank associated with it all. (as a note to self)
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
Yeah I gave up on it for a few days and thought to sell it off but after the correct amount of foul language I went back to looking at the very few things it could possibly be the issue. My car, my problem($). I found the relay on the fire wall that commanded the fuel pump was stuck open so the fuel pump would have gotten constant V when the battery was connected and also found my dumb *** never plugged the fricken fuel pump up to the sender harness before it went into the tank!
The pump primes as it should now, but I get a weak light when using a test light on the coil and theres a fair bit of crud in the fuel system ahead of the filter I need to clean out. New coil on the way as well as cap and rotor to be sure, tossing on a new crank sensor all from Summit and a used 3rd gen tank from Hawks and I`ll try and start it again.
Last edited by StratosFear1986; 10-03-2022 at 04:11 PM.
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
Lol, progress! Sometimes you just have to keep after it. I try to do one thing every day to get my car closer to where I want to be. Some of my attempts have been total fails, but all investigative knowledge is good.
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
Well things were looking good up to the moment they didnt. The fuel tank seal isnt 100% so the tank has to come out, again. Also worried I fried the ECM trying to crank it last night, I had an inline spark plug tester installed when I lost all power mid crank. I removed the negative cable on the battery and tested it. Load tested good and when I threaded the cable back on I got power again. But now the security light no longer illuminates with key ON and the 20A fuse in the holder on the fender is good. I do know the injectors are working, #1 was wet and smelled like MMO and gasoline.
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
It does crank now, yes and a few sprays of starting fluid down the intake had little to no effect. I will investigate the passkey fuse and take a better look at the distributor and ICM.
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
Interesting, I tested the ignition coil and its getting both 12V from source and the reference signal from the pickup coil when cranking. I did find the area where the rotor rests on the distributor had some decent surface rust on it and the points inside the cap where starting to turn green. Ive wired brushed all that clean and now scrounging the part stores for a tester that looks like a spark plug with a clamp on it.
Last edited by StratosFear1986; 04-16-2023 at 11:58 AM.
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
Fairly sure I have spark now, but looks like no fuel pressure. I can hear the pump running as it should but no pressure at the schrader valve. Now I question whether I even had a spark issue this entire time and just had a fuel issue the whole time. I still have no "Security" light come on with the key on but to the best my knowledge it shouldnt crank nor run the pump if it were a VATS issue. Since I replaced the tank I`ll bet the gasket didnt seal right and I`m going to have the drop it again, I suppose I could unhook the fuel filter and turn the key to see what happens.
Last edited by StratosFear1986; 04-18-2023 at 11:40 AM.
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
VATS controls the start enable relay and sends a square wave to the ecm. It has nothing to do with the fuel pump.
You could certainly try disconnecting the fuel line and see if it squirts. Could also blow air back into it and listen for bubbles in the tank to check for a blockage.
Re: Who buys a Firebird thats hasnt ran since 1998?
Ive almost got it, there is pressure at the filter and the schrader valve now. My fuel pressure tool has grown legs and walked away so I dont know what it is exactly though. But I did find I had the wires backwards on the distributor, the FSM could be more clear. With those back in place and new cap and rotor its on the verge of coming to life. It cranks much better and almost seems to run roughly for a few seconds after I stop, the exhaust manifolds are almost too hot to touch too.
10-12-2021, 03:00 PM
