Tom 400 CFI

The last T&T of the year here in SLC , UT was Aug 18 (!), and of course, I had to go.

Now here are my issues w/the most recent trip.
1. Every time you go to that track, they issue a "run card" w/5 slots on it. Everytime you pull into the staging lanes there is a staff member there that walks around to every car and punches run cards. This ensures that you CAN'T get more than 5 passes on an "open T&T" night...even though w/o that policy, you easily could. Tell me what you think about this policy, reletive to what YOUR local track does.

2. I sent an email to the track manager asking why this policy was in place. Why not just let people make as many passes as they want to or can while the track is open on a first come/first served basis? Here is his response, copied and pasted: ..."we could, but what would a person learn from just making passes and not taking the time to look at everything and make adjustments to the vehicle for performance and getting the best performance and personal goals out of the vehicle. In the past we had no limit to the passes and one individual made 14 passes and I asked him what he learned and he said "nothing", he was just making passes, his times were all over the board and did not improve with more/less runs. That's only one guy, there were more with the same response. This person still comes out and get's his 5 passes and watches his friends, no real change, just not beating his car to death." What do you think about this? I heve plenty of thoughts (the underlined part blows my mind) but am looking for more input.

-Tom

Batass

Interesting. Sounds like the track owner has good intentions on helping people get their car faster, but is it really any of his business? What about guys that just need a lot of seat time, practicing their launch technique?

I think its a silly rule, but if I owned a track I would have a few of my own "silly" rules. Such as no street tires in the water box and no open headered rotary engines.

igotta355z28

iTrader: (1)

id be your number one patron with that rule lol.....i dont care how far the drive is lol

my local track has no limit i wouldnt like there to be one either.......i agree about what if someone wants seat time....and the owner shouldnt care if someone goes out there and beats their car sensless its their stupidity and not his problem.... is there any other track near you? my local track usually closes mid december through bout the first week of march thats all.and i have another track thats about 15 miles farther away i could go to i guess im just lucky though.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Might reduce the number of Hondas breaking on a given night. . .

We don't have a limit for T&T (although they punch the run card each time), but our car count is usually so high they've had to limit our race-day time trials to two.

Well, I take that back. When T&T car counts get high and the staging lanes full, they'll say, "Cars with fewer than 2 runs", etc., so that those who hot-lap won't be filling the staging lanes and keep "real" testers from making a decent number of runs.

Tom 400 CFI

Yep, I've seen that before too, on comp nights. I'm talking pure, open track, T&T only nights. 5 run limit. Track's looking out for my and my car's well beinging...apparently.

EDIT: I get what you're saying now. B.S. EVERYONE is a serious T&T'er. Whether they're running 10's or 16's; To THEM it's just as important to go faster. When I got my cam-only (literally) LG4 to run 15.3 was just as big a deal to me as runing 12.89 in my 'Vette, bone stock...at 4500'.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

i've heard of other track having a limit on runs, luckily ours does'nt, but i think that is because our population is lower and economy kinda stinks around here so not as many guys with toys into the ddrag racing thing, more into the mud packing stuff.

IMO, so long as the track is'nt waaaaay overcrowded to where a guy can only get 1-2 runs in even if it was an open T&T, everybody paying to get in should be able to go round robin if they chose to do so. Who gives a rat's azz if the manager is trying to teach something, 90% of T&T crowds could give a crap, they just come out to go round and round and round. Having stupid rules like this is what leaves a bad taste in patrons mouths that do show up, and this takes away from the fun and possible future racer since they're pizzed right off the batt.

Stupid rule IMO, but without knowing the logistics and typical car counts, I cant blast'em either.

AlkyIROC

I've gone to T&T days and only gotten 2 passes.

With a low car count, limiting a car to only 5 passes is BS. As mentioned above, a driver could be just practicing his launching and trying to improve his reaction time. Maybe he wants to hot lap and try different shift points. Limiting it to 5 runs means the day is over very quickly and not learning anything.

Since you should only change one thing at a time when T&T, it takes me longer to refuel my car than it does to change my launch rpm or tire pressures. If I can make a pass, change tire pressures and have the car cool enough to make another pass in 5 minutes, as long as there isn't a long wait in the staging lanes, I could get my 5 passes done in a hour. If I paid to T&T, I want to T&T with as many passes as I feel I can make. If car counts, breakage or anything else delays the program, so be it but if everything is running smoothly, why should I be restricted to how many passes I make.

Paying for T&T is technically renting the track for as long as it's available. Some people can hot lap and make lots of passes, some need more time in the pits to change things or cool down.

When I raced my truck years ago, I went to a street legal night with a low car count. I didn't even have to open my hood between runs and made 18 passes in one evening. Best I've managed with my car with a low car count was 8. I could have made more but it was getting dark. It's hard to check and adjust stuff in the dark.

What's the cost of your T&T? On our street legal nights it's $25. On the Wednesday night drag car T&T nights it's $35 so the extra fee goes to prep the track with VHT which they don't do on the street legal nights. If your track is limiting you to 5 runs and it only cost $10 then that's a good deal. Pay $30 for a chance at 15 runs.

Tom 400 CFI

Cost is $22, for 5 passes. By comparison, A track day at MIller Motorsports park which is $350, is $1.50/minute of actual driving.

IF they do any track prep, it's extremely minimal.

If they didn't have a staginglanes "guy" they'd also save $10/hr or more.

Stephen, I agree w/everything that you said, totally.

KWIK84

iTrader: (5)

Crazy question, but if someone wanted to spend the $$ could they buy 2 tickets and get 10 passes in? Yeah, I know that it doesn't make much sense, but if someone was really pushing on a car for a given reason and like many of us who trailer to the track, the extra $$$ for another card would be cheaper than having to put fuel in the tow vehicle to come back the next week.

Tom 400 CFI

That's a great question. You SHOULD be able to, but I'm betting that at THIS track, the answer would be "no", and for no good reason.

Once (at this track) I asked my GF to come down to be w/me. Due to work/life, she didn't get to the track until about 7:00 PM. The ticket window was already closed, and there was a guy at the gate. Guy wouldn't let her in b/c she didn't have a ticket. She asked how she could buy a ticket when the ticket window was closed. He said, "Caint". She asked if she could just go in, since it was late, tix window closed, can't get a tick anyway. "Nope. Caint git in with out a ticket."

You know how hard it is to get girls to come to a place like the track in the first place?? And the to treat them like THAT??? Mean while, there was about 10 people in the stands (family of drivers) watching a non-event that was almost over anyway. Lastly, the track was spending more money on a staff keeping "all" the people out, than they could have made by selling tickets to those people (my GF). In fact, the track had already condemned themselves to no more revenue, by closing the window!! Yet they won't let anyone in! Why not pay the "gate keeper" to sell a ticket and make himself uselful....OR just get rid of that position, and just LET THE GIRL IN.

I told that story to give just ONE example of what we're dealing with out here. I could cite many examples of lunacy here, but the point of that story was to give clarity to my answer to the question above. Would they let you buy two entrances and make 10 passes? I highly doubt it. Why? I have no idea.

kcb37

On open street night, at my track you can make as many passes as you can get in.
When they are racing and someone is doing T&T they are somewhat few and far between so they can get the racers down the track, but you still get 5 or 6 passes. The only porblem with that is they start letting you run passes in a shorter time frame towards the end so if you need to let your car cool down you may not have the oportunity to do so if you want to make the most out of your time.

1983Z28

At our track there is no limit on the number of runs during T&T. Friday night street legal cost is $30 and you typically get 3-4 runs in when they have 225 entries. On a T&T day (Friday as well) they limit the number of vehicles that can participate but there is no limit on the number of runs. Last Friday I got in 14 runs and the cost was $70.

Kevin84Z28

iTrader: (3)

That would be a reasonable policy then given that set of circumstances. But the first reason about not learning about one's car is total B.S.

Jay

iTrader: (2)

The two tracks I go to ( Lebanon Valley NY, and Atco, NJ ) don't have a policy like that, but most street nights are so packed you are limited to 4-5 runs anyway.

327???

I'm glad our track isn't like that, we get as many passes as possible and decent prep(as good as I can tell with my 12sec car) for $13.

automec

i have heard so many bad things about the way that track is run that i have never gone there . even though i live just up interstate 15, 275 miles away in idaho. my favorite place to go is lost creek raceway in anaconda mt. its a 1/8 mile track, but, lots of runs, good people, and camping/campfires in the pits. FTW

ross

My local track is $20.00 to race $13.00 to watch on T&T nights and if you are there early you will have 6-8 pass in a night if you are late 6:45-7:00 pm you may only get 3-5 pass in. It really depends on the import count.

Tom 400 CFI

Thanks for the input, everyone.

AlkyIROC

I went to the street legal last Friday. $25 and made one pass with a defective timing system in one lane. After waiting over an hour for them to fix the timing system, I could have made a second pass with a race car priority because of the noise bylaw but by then it was dark and getting cold. The track was too slippery for high HP cars anyway.

They got restarted around 8:30-9pm. Up until then, I estimate about 20-30 cars at the most got down the track. They ran until 11:20pm when a Corvette blew up a diff and covered the track with synthetic gear oil so they shut it down for the night.

Official car count through tech was 197. I doubt few if any got 3 passes.