CrazyHawaiian

I'm getting ready to do a head gasket job on my IROC-Z w/ stock L98 (64cc heads), trying to find out what parts I'm gonna need beforehand. Has anyone here done a head gasket job on a 350 before? I'm confident about taking the heads off since I helped my friend take his heads off, but I'm not so confident about putting it all back together. I'm kind of unsure about two things, first is the thickness/material of the head gaskets I should use, second is what to do with the heads themselves.

For the head gaskets I've been looking for gaskets for a 350 w/ 4.00 bore, most gaskets are between 4.100-4.166 gasket bore and the thickness ranges from .28 (GM perf parts replacement) to .40 (Copper Milodon replacement). I'm confused about this because I cant find a straight answer on the thickness of the stock gasket. I dont want to bump the compression ratio up, but I also dont want to drop it and loose power. I just want to end up with what it was stock, around 9.3:1

For the heads themselves I would like to try and replace the valve seals because the car blows smoke on startup (ever since I owned it) and the heads will be off so I figgure now is the time. I'm sure I can rent the valve spring removal tool from my local checkers but alot of the info I read on refreshing heads gets into alot more detail with specialty tools. I've also never done this before. I dont really wanna get that deep into it. This motor is almost done with, its not worth spending money or going crazy. If its gonna be a PITA I'm just gonna slap the heads back on. I'm also concerned about what I'll need to do to get the car running again. For some reason I fear the idea of setting valve lash while the car is running. Anyone ever done that?

Trying to get this thing fixed by the 23rd of March, its the Final Battle drifting event at the track. Wish me luck!

bluegrassz

iTrader: (3)

The gasket I just took off my L98 was .028 thick.

I ordered GM's #10105117. That should be the stock head gasket, and keep you from losing any compression.

My motor is a 92 and when I pulled the heads it had flattops. No dish at all.

pvt num 11

Hydraulic roller lifters require valve lash? I thought you tightened them down 'some' (whatever some means) and that was about it... Can you take a bunch of pictures of removing the plenum, rails and intake manifold to share? I'm going to have to get off my lazy behind one of these years and change mine out on the GTA some time.

Duck

Hardest part about doing heads is remove/install all the intake and exhaust stuff. I've done several SBC's, all were carbed, one was solid lifter, two were hydraulic. Basically, just set the engine at TDC #1 cylinder, drain fluids, pull the intake, exhaust, loosen the rockers, pull the heads. If the lifters are coming out, make sure they go back where they came from, otherwise just leave alone. Unless you have the machinery to cut valve seats, next step is to determine if the shop that's going to cut the valve seats and valves will do it cheaper disassembled or not. If not, then use the spring compressor to take the valve assy apart -- map everything so the parts go back in their original places. The shop will tank the heads and check the surface for flatness, if warped or pitted badly some milling will be required ... how much is removed will determine what thickness of head gasket will be needed. Shop will most likely do a 3 or 5-angle cut on the head/valves. Install the valve seals, I've heard "vitron" or nylon ones are the best.

Before reassembly, take the opportunity to clean the EGR passages in the intake, perhaps replace the EGR. Ok, check the pushrods for straightness and springs to determine if any have lost tension, clean the block head surface, decarbon everything, install head gasket, head and torque according to the book. Reinstall all the parts using plenty lube. Valve lifter lash for hydraulics is set by tightening the adjustment a certain number of turns after the slack is taken out to center the lifter internals. There's a map for which valves to adjust depending on the rotational position of the camshaft, but I don't have it handy. Basically, just do each cylinder at TDC to ensure the valves will be closed. Rotate the engine to the next cylinder, etc, etc. Easy. There is no need to do this while the engine is running. If you've changed to solid lifters in addition to the "cold" valve lash adjustment, you'll need to do it again after the engine is warm. I've never done it with the engine running, but have seen guys at the racetrack do so, using a special tool. I guess there's "new tech" tools to adjust the lash, but I've only done it with a feeler gauge. If the shop does the spring/rocker/valve/seal reinstall, the job is not hard, just make sure to correctly torque the heads, you might have to retorque when warm.

CrazyHawaiian

Worked on it for about 7 hours today, didnt get as far as I wanted. I got the intake off, only thing left before pulling the heads is the powersteering pump bracket bolts, the wiring harness bracket / ground behind the pass head, and thats it. So tomorrow I'll finally be able to see whats up with these heads. Here's some pics along the way:

Got the exhaust manifolds off:


Valvecovers, throttlebody, plennum:


Distributor, runners, intake manifold, fuel rail, alternator:

pvt num 11

Oh, so that's how you change our spark plugs, remove the exhaust manifolds... Why didn't I think of that?

CrazyHawaiian

Got the heads off, looks like I'm in business. Definately a head gasket failure between the cylinder walls (yay no exploded parts or anything). I'll post pics later after I get some sleep ...

3rdGenBlackBird

I miss my firebird....

If you need a valve spring tool, I've got one that I won't need for a little while. (Unless I buy 1.9 RR's before the track closes...)

You don't have to set lash with the engine running but unless there is something that blocks removing/reinstalling the valve covers it doesn't get too messy. If you have an extra cover, just cut a hole in it. Don't know if that works with the centerbolt covers.

I would just replace the seals and maybe the springs and leave it alone. If you're putting too much money into it then you're better off saving up for something better. If you want stock replacement springs, I've got a full set of "z28/lt1" springs that I have never used and probably won't use. You can have 'em.

Any posi seals should be good enough, or use the viton if you can get em.

You can check pushrod straightness on a mirror or glass, and use a straightedge across the face of the head, and check for cracks, and measure all you want with calipers but if the rest of it worked before it will probably work the same when you put it all back. Did you do a leakdown test before teardown?

Scott

pvt num 11

About how long did it take you to get the intake manifold off?

Duck

That's good news. If the intent is to just replace the gaskets and not to do a valve job, etc, all that remains is cleanup and reinstallation. Personally, I'd refresh everything while the heads are off...

CrazyHawaiian

Scott, we're gonna have to set a date/time so you can come grab that transmission. Sorry my schedule is so whack!! I'll PM you about it.

Thanks for the tips everyone. Took me about 3-4 hours to take the intake off, lots of breaks in between. I think the entire job (off, seal replace, and back on) could be done in 3 hours. One thing I've learned, needing a "holder" for bolts and pushrods is a perfect excuse to go buy three six packs of beer (bottles). Who needs those trays!! hahaha

I think I might have found someone at the Hobby Shop (on base) that can do the heads for me for dirt cheap. We'll see what happens. I'm building another motor on the side w/ 113 heads but I wanted to get this one back together and running by at least the 15th of the month (to test/tune before the 23rd last drift battle @ HRP). Now I'm off to order copper headgaskets and a AIR pump delete pulley from GMPP...

CrazyHawaiian

I ended up taking the heads to Teds to have the valve seals done. It was $30 per side + parts so I got lazy. I also got them both milled since the gasket failure was between the cylinder walls. Total will be under $200 for both heads inc parts and labor so I'm pretty happy. They should be ready by Mon, hope to have the car running by Wed. I also backed out of the coper head gaskets since alot of people have had problems with leaking, decided to go with composite Fel Pro head gaskets.

What else should I do for cheap while these heads are off? Anyone got any ideas?

Duck

Good opportunity to replace the EGR with a new one, or block it off and disable it in the chip. No more Code 32's for no reason at all... Also decarbon the intake tubes and plenum with a aluminum-friendly tanking.

BTW, speaking of tanks, didn't hear from James yesterday. Called his cellphone, left voicemail. Hope he calls today, the leak in my gas tank is getting really annoying when I drift the car...

3rdGenBlackBird

Uhhm... cam? (Do it!)

Was Saturday DS?

CrazyHawaiian

I talked to James and he said he dropped the gas tank off, hope everything is going good with it.

Is it possible to service the EGR or do you buy a new one instead? I figgured it could use a new gasket, but I'm not sure what to do with the EGR itself. Maybe clean it out?

Man I would love to do a cam but I'm out of $$ for now. Doh!! Its ok though, gonna be saving up and building another motor on the side (with an aftermarket cam hehe!). Yeah DS was on Saturday. I missed it because of work. Both Chris and I are trying to make it to the last drifting event on the 23rd. If I can get my car running by Wed maybe I can make the one on the 19th too!!

3rdGenBlackBird

How's the project coming?

CrazyHawaiian

Its going slow, had a small cold this past weekend so I didnt get to work on it as much as I wanted. So far today got the heads back on, got the intake manifold on and EGR and distributor and stuff. All thats left is the fuel rail, runners/plennum/tb, valvecovers, exhaust manifolds, plugs/wires, and change the fluids and its ready. Should be running by Tuesday night if everything goes as planned. Then I need an alignment, some tires mounted, trip to the sticker shop and ready for the drift battle on Thursday the 23rd! Revlimit might be coming out too so check it out!

CrazyHawaiian

Well, I ended up getting the motor together but ran into problems with the new exhaust the night before the event so I didnt make it. It was a ground clearance issue with the new suspension and y-pipe. It needed to be shortened and I couldnt get the car to a welder in time. Chris did not go to the event either, he's not really into drifting anymore. FYI - If anyone wants to buy his car let him know.

Duck

Ack -- too bad those problems came up... BTW, how much does Chris want for his car? It has a few features I really like! Also, the "mobile mechanic" I've played phonetag with the past couple of weeks isn't interested in my gas tank swap. Also, thanks for putting me in touch with Tony, we're going to the Fort Shafter auto craft shop on Saturday to swap the IROC gas tank. At last I'll have a working fuel gage and be able to drift without fear of flaming out!

BigWhiteGTP

Hey Crazy Hawaiian, what did you do about the power steering pump and pulley? Did you rent a pulley remover or did you just remove the head with pump and pulley still attached? I am doing the head gasket replacement This week and that is the first snag I ran into.

Duck

Hi BWGTP -- CH has been busy for a while, not sure when he'll be online, but I can comment ... the PS pump mounts to the aluminum frame for the serpentine belt, not the head, so easiest way is to simply remove the whole thing, about six bolts. My engine schematic shows three of the top bolts near the alternator actually screw into the driver side head, so no need to mess with PS pump. If your intent is to remove the PS pulley, the only way it can be done without wrecking the pump is with a special tool, available as a rental at Autozone, etc.

CrazyHawaiian

I removed the serp. belt but I left the power steering pump and pulley attached to the accessory bracket. I believe there are 2 or 3 bolts that hold the accessory bracket to the drivers side head, just remove those bolts and the head cam come off without having to remove the power steering stuff. Good luck!!

BigWhiteGTP

How do I get to the bolts. It looks like the power steering pump ( or resevoir or whatever that bottle is) is in the way of at least 1 hex bolt. Did you leave the pump in there? I'm swapping L98 heads in, so I need to get that bracket off. But If I must rent the puller to get it off I will.

CrazyHawaiian

Yeah there is one bolt right by the cap/filler for the power steering. There are two others I believe closer to the water pump but on the same bracket. I used a 3/8ths ratchet, an assortment of extensions, and you'll need the star pattern sockets for the bolts, forget the exact size. Its a tough place to look because there is pretty much no room to get a good angle. I would go by feel. You dont need to remove all that stuff to remove the heads, only the 3 bolts attaching the accessory bracket to the head.

BigWhiteGTP

I'll go at it again tonight when I get off from work. Any pointers you can give me?

Was the AIR system on the passenger side as big of a bitch to get out of the way as it looks? It's tubes and hoses and black plastics boxes everywhere.

After the PS steering bracket and air, about how far have I gotten in terms of time....half way, 1/3 way to getting to the gaskets?

CrazyHawaiian

Well, I kinda cheated on that one, I removed the old exhaust manifolds and all the AIR crap and deleted it all. My cat was already gone so I just undid the manifolds and ripped it all out. I also re-did all the heater hoses and stuff, got rid of that black plastic box w/ hoses on the pass side and really cleaned everything up. When I put it all back together I installed aftermarket headers (Edelbrock TES) w/o AIR ports and I did the throttle body coolant bypass mod. Lemme get some pics

CrazyHawaiian

Earlier in the thread I posted three pictures, the bottom one shows pretty much everything disconnected and heads about ready to come out. Here is what it looks like when they are off to give you an idea of how far you have to go. I'm not sure how far along you are, there's alot of stuff that needs to come off:



The only tips I can really give is to go slow, take your time and make sure you do it right. Also keep track of every bolt, bag and tag them, and label everything you can. I was pretty lucky I remembered how to put everything back together, I took it all apart in such a rush the pieces were everywhere. Here's some pics of it back together. When the TPI was off I cleaned and painted it with aluminum paint. I'm gonna be making another thread entitled "CrazyHawaiians Ghetto Fab $20 Engine Beautification" where I show the difference between stock 100+k mile normal dirty engine and $20 in paint, sandpaper, ceaning materials, and time applied. It made a huge difference as far as looks of the engine itself for damn cheap. Here's some pics so far:

BigWhiteGTP

That TPI looks nice. What paint is that? Did you bake it?

I have gotten the PS bracket off and the plenum, TB, and unhooked the injectors. Now I am stuck on the compressor bracket. I have removed all of those bolds, except for the one in the middle that goes under the compressor and above the thing below it. Do you know which one I am talking about?

Also, the previous owner tucked the fuel injector wiring cables between the runners and valve cover. I believe I will have to remove the valve covers to move the wires out of the way to pull off the tpi, then injectors, then distributor, then intake, then heads. But that damn compressor bracket is holding me up.

CrazyHawaiian

Yeah the thing below it is the AIR pump. I removed mine since I was deleting the AIR system and put in a delete pulley. I disconnected the A/C compressor from the bracket but left it cradled in the bracket. Like the other side with the PS pump, you just need to remove the bolts that hold the A/C compressor bracket to the head, no need to go further.

The injector wiring harness thing usually tucks between the valvecover and the runners there, in that picture I posted of the heads off you can still see the harness there hanging over the block. The pass side valvecover is a major PITA in my book, tough to get it off because of that wiring harness and the height of the rockers inside. When you're taking the fuel rail off (w/ injectors still attached) it feels like you're gonna break something when it comes off. But dont worry, just use a screwdriver w/ a rag or something and wedge it below the fuel rail lines at the front of the intake and force it up. Each injector has its own seal that needs to come free. They should be re-usable seals too. When I put mine back together I used the Fel-Pro complete TPI gasket kit so I replaced my injector seals for the heck of it. Be sure to mark your distributor referance points too, I used a string and marsh pen on the firewall. Dont wanna have to deal with setting TDC and stuff when you put it back together. Good luck!
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Oh yeah the paint, just regular cheapo rattle can high temp aluminum paint. I didnt even sand it because I was in such a rush! doh!!