mypontiac

I am going to increase my boost on my stock bottom end 1991 TA w/ 305 and ATI D-1SC Procharger.

Currently running 10# w/ no problem.

I have talked to Tim B. who is pushing over 400 HP w/ nitrous on his stock bottom end 305.

I figure that I can do the same with my Procharger.

Will be changing to the 15# pulley soon. Sitting in a box in my bedroom as I write this!

I am currently working with Steve at SMC who is the inventor of a sweet alky/water system.

He has recently developed a system that will work specifically for a supercharged setup.

It increases spray as boost increases so that there is no bogging of the engine.

I plan on getting this system as added insurance to running such high boost on the stock bottom end.

Will get her dynoed with the new setup and will post the results.

This with my new MSD Digital 6 ignition system will hopefully get some impressive results!!!!!!

Go 305!!!!!

StocRoc

iTrader: (1)

Good luck buddy, and keep us posted. I am also interested in the new kit, let me know how it works. It would make me feel better when I bump up the boost on my hyperucraptic pistons.

-Ryan

rooster433

Good luck!

Hows the tune doing?

mypontiac

Hi Rooster433,

Tuning is perfect with the current set up. Will want to watch the A/F Gauge with the added boost.

Was starting to run a little rough 2 weeks ago with surging idle, but just needed the TB and IAC cleaned.

Send me a PM to let me know how your project is going.

Willie

iTrader: (1)

Sean,

The stock bottom end will sustain 400+ hp, but the safety margin starts to become rather thin. But with your mods (cam and bolt-ons), you should be okay.

My concern with running 14-psig and over is the stress applied to the crank snout by your blower belt. The force applied perpendicularly to the crank at this boost level is high. You will discover that in order to prevent belt slippage, the ribbed belt will have to be tightened as much as possible. This force can literally cause your balancer to crack and will possibly cause irreparable damage to your stock crank snout. Why do I say this? It just happened to me. As I type this, my engine is completely disassembled, awaiting some 4340 parts (to name only a few mods I've decided on to make my 305 absolutely bulletproof).

mypontiac

OK

How about this senerio for now.

Run the pulley, but tension it with some belt slippage.

Say get 12 or 13 psi instead. This would be OK for now.

Is this possible? Or were you losing more boost before tightening the belt?

I am wondering if this was also the cause of your pulley bolt breaking??? Sound like the culprit!

If I do go with the smaller pulley, do I need to upgrade to a Fluid Dampner HB ?

I am very well tuned and was going to take a chance on the higher boost with the SMC alky/water kit made specifically for the supercharged cars. Worth looking into. Good stuff!!!

But your new insight has questioned whether I should go to the next level.

Please let me know if you think I can gain with some belt slippage.

Say tune to 13# and allow some slippage.

Got 78,000 miles on the engine. Figure a bullet proff rebuild is years away as long as I do my homework and have help from others like you!!!

Thanks!

rooster433

Can you some how fab a bracket with maybe two small idler (not tentioner) pulleys that gets more belt rap around the pulley?

Tention is not your enemy, belt contact is. You shouldn't have to put so much tention on the pulleys, Its probally the best way to break or wear out stuff.

I wouldn't see anything popping except for the ring lands. Make sure you listen hard for spark knock. If you hear any rattle or flutter get out. Check the plugs for spotting too.

I have seen the crank snout break clean off a LT1.

Please let me know about the SMC water injection, I'm considering building my own kit but if hes got something that comes on linear with boost that would be awesome.


My project is going well, i make 7 psi at any RPM and coming hard at anything past 25% throttle. I've still got to tune it in a little better, the instant boost is proving to be a little tough to tune. I'm also having overheating issues.

mypontiac

Overheating should not be related to the boost unless you have an intercooler impeeding the air flow to the radiator.

Maybe crap in your radiator.

Mine was old and started to fail. Got a new one and problem solved.

The SMC alky/water unit is designed exactly for the needs of a supercharged boost system.

You can go to www.turbobuick.com and search for SMC.

Steve gets excellent reviews and his units are priced such that they are an excellent value for the features they provide.

Keep us updated!

'91 Formula

iTrader: (1)

Willie is right. I snapped my crank snout on my 305 idleing in my driveway.

mypontiac

Idling in your driveway????

Guess it cracked under boost and finally decided to break off in your driveway?

How much boost were you running? I see 10 # in your signature.

If only 10#, how often were you using boost?

I rarely race, so my frequency of stress on it is very low.

Thanks for the update.

mypontiac

Spoke with my Rep at ATI and apparently this problem is more prevalent with the 12 rib set up.

See response to my inquiry below.



I do like to see the factory balancers replaced with a high quality aftermarket piece. Especially if your original balancer has a ton of miles on it. Since you are using an 8 rib drive system, you should not be able to hurt the crank, but as far out as the crank pulley sits, you don't want to get the belt too tight. The onlt time I've ever seen any problems with the crank on that application was on a very modified engine, 12rib drive, D1 blower (oil fed), running the belt very very tight, and a stock balancer. I think an aftermarket balancer would be worth doing, and it would still be useful later if/when you modify your engine.
Let me know if you have any other questions,
Thanks,
Dorian

B4Ctom1

I guess the good question would be then where does one get cog sets for prochargers then and around what kind of price will we be looking at?

mypontiac

Search for posts by Willie.

He was running a cog set up w/ 12 rib and just blew the stock crank.

Guess it is a fine line!

B4Ctom1

a cog setup with a 12 rib? that sounds like alot of extra belts...

mypontiac

He did have the 12 rib to start. Then went with the Cog. Maybe less ribs.

Look for his posts.

As per his response to my post he is rebuilding the 305 to be bullet proof. Aught to be sweet!

B4Ctom1

I will search are they pretty old? I dont remember seeing them before...

mypontiac

Here is one:

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...&highlight=cog

Can't find the post that he shows some photos.

Better send him a PM for that post.

'91 Formula

iTrader: (1)

I should also tell you that I had the Accy. belt routed like stock instead of what Vortech reccomended. This is the same direction the Vortech belt pulls. (both pulling towards driver side) Alot of lateral stress I suppose.

Also my cold start was so bad, with the s h i t Superchips PROM, every time I started the engine it would shake like crazy untill closed loop. Thank goodness for DYI prom burning.

I have determined that Superchips really has no idea what they are doing. You should see the programing in the PROM they gave me.

Guido

Sorry to hear about your mishaps Willie! Thats too bad. I know you were working towards some good news with the new cogs on your blower.

Get her back together and let us know how it does.

Unleash the fury. hehe

Willie

iTrader: (1)

I need to clarify a couple of points here.

First off, this is what happened: My Fluidampr balancer cracked at the keyway (a balancer's weakest point). It was an eventual process that started months prior. This caused the key to distort, causing irreparable damage to my crank keyway (pic attached). It was NOT any kind of internal crank damage.

The crack in the balancer started months prior to the cog installation. I believe it was caused by the blower belt tension. Sean, although the stress on the crank by the blower in boost is higher than when freewheeling (no boost), the tension of the belt itself imparts a side load on the balancer (and crank snout).

I believe the cog setup actually reduces this side load on the crank as the belt does not have to be tightened nearly as much as with a ribbed setup. And Sean, the cogs REPLACE the 12-rib pullies and belt!!!!

Tom, ATI makes the cog pullies. They have them for the P1/D1SC. However, their crank pulley is a generic piece and will not bolt on without an adapter. The adapter is custom fabbed by ASSC Racing. Also, you will need cog idlers. ATI as some, but my setup necessitated custom diameter idlers. Again, ASSC provided me with these. In addition, ASSC also fabs two additional blower bracket support members. There are a couple of other mods they highly recommended in order to strenghen the balancer where mine failed.

I decided that as long as my crank is being replaced, I am going with a 4340 piece, 4340 rods (I already have forged pistons), adding four-bolt main caps with splayed bolts on the #2 thru #4 journals and replacing my cam (again). Anyone interested in a used (12,000 miles only) custom Crane roller hydraulic cam for a blown 305/350? If so, e-mail me.

Willie

mypontiac

Thanks for the clarification Willie.

I am still using the stock GM ballancer on my car. Mechanis said it looked fine upon inspection when I started doing the mods.

In your opinion, do you think I should change it out?

Looks like it might be just one of those things that has to go when it is it's own time????

Keep us updated with the rebuild.

Willie

iTrader: (1)

In your opinion, do you think I should change it out?

No. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. BUT if you develop any hint of a vibration in any rpm range, I'd inspect the balancer immediately.

I do not know if my balancer started cracking open from the inside out or from the outside in. It would be easy to see a crack that develops on the outside, but not the inside, along the keyway. If this were to happen, you really cannot see it unless you remove the balancer.

I will not be getting my engine back for at least another four weeks (today = 06/26/03), so for the time being, it's scubbing and repainting my engine compartment and parts!! Oh, what fun in 106 degree heat....

Willie

mypontiac

I know what you mean about the heat!!!

Some days I work on the car after dark with a flood light.

Cooler, but mosquitos like light!!!

I will look out for vibration. Car runs very smooth now. Probably the best running car I have ever owned.

I will be adding the Alky/Water kit soon. The new SMC supercharger kit is now available.

I love technology!

Might wait for Fall to get a break from the heat though!!!!! Not !

RMK

Have you got this stuff instlled yet? I'm interested to see the new dyno numbers

mypontiac

Not yet.

Waiting to get in touch with SMC to place the order. Holiday slowed things up and I only have car time on weekends.

Will order the SMC kit monday.

Stay tuned.

mypontiac

Just to update everyone, I ordered the progressive kit today from SMC.

Steve was very helpful and we spoke for some time concerning tuning issues.

Due to the lack of space in the engine compartment I needed to place the fill bottle under the hood latch area behind the front bumper. Steve provided the additional braided steel hose and wiring at no extra charge!

I should get the kit in about 2 weeks. However, I am going to take my time installing it as the weather is really bad this time of year in southern Louisiana.

Once everything is installed, it will take a little more time to get it tuned properly for optimum alky output. Too little alky and it will still knock, too much and it will bog the engine.

The progressive unit is a little easier to tune as it incraeses the pump speed as boost increases.

I will update once I begin the install.

Yarnboy

How's it going with the alky injection? Any news?

mypontiac

Steve of SMC said that my kit would go out last Thursday.

I am expecting it no later than Friday, otherwise I will give him a call.

I will update as I progress.

Slow, but sure!!!

mypontiac

OK. I have started with the Alky install.

Got everything done except for the routing of the alky line to the throttle body hose.

Should have everything done this weekend.

I will set it at the basic setting for now. Once I change to the 15 # pulley I will spend some time at the dyno to get it all tuned.

Here are some photos of the controller.

Will update as I progress.

mypontiac

One more.

Murt TTA

are u using straight 100% alky? How are you results?

I have the same kit on my TTA and I can run around 26 psi of boost w/ a 19 deg chip. Alot better then the 18 I could squeeze without alky.

I use 100% denatured, it seems to give the best knock detonation while providing more fuel.

How much more boost were u able to run??

~Murt

mypontiac

Hey Murt,

I just got the kit installed and it blew the 10 amp Gauge fuse as I have it powered to the ign power on the fuse box.

I decided to try the test again and even after 6 pump runs the fuse did not blow?

So I am going to keep testing it over the next couple of days to see if it does not blow the fuse again.

Where do you get your power from for the SMC?

Once I am confident with the kit I am going to increase the ProCharger pulley from a 10 # pulley to a 15# pulley.

This should put me to the limit of my cast bottom end. This is why I am adding the alky. Want to ensure no knock!

Will update as I progress.

mypontiac

I just installed the new 3.40" pully with the help of my wife. I had to remove the driver's side top bolt, the two passenger side bolts and loosen the bottom driver's side bolt of the blower to get the belt onto the pulley. I then pulled the blower into place and she threaded and tightened the two larger bolts. I took it from there.

The belt is a NAPA 25080635 and rides on the pulleys just fine.

I took it out for a ride and was able to get 12# boost . Too much traffic to go all out. ATI expects the blower to produce 15# on my set up.

This will give me 460 FWHP. Not too bad for the little 305!

I plan on tuning the alky injection over the holidays to ensure that I am getting zero knock.

This is the end of my project. Hope others will benefit from my experience.

Happy holidays!

RMK

When are you looking to get dyno figures for this cunfiguration? Soon, I hope.

Looking forward to hearing how it is with no traffic around.

Robert

mypontiac

During the Christams break if Thunder Racing can fit me in.

I had a new dissapointment this morning.

In the cold morning the blower was jumping around like it was possesed????

Sounded really bad. Knocking and jumping. Goes away after about 5 minutes of warming up.

Anyone else ever had this problem?

Later in the day I loosened the belt and topped out the oil to see if that would help.

Only thing I could see is that the tightness of the belt is causing grief to the bearings when everything is cold???

Waiting for it to get cold to test it again.

Always something!

B4Ctom1

I have seen lots of prochargers and vortechs and some roots blowers even doing the "chug, chug, chug-chug" thing. it has more to do with idle quality or light missfire at idle than the interior of the blower. the strong and weak intermixed cold engine firing impulses "chug" the blower against its gears from the drive face of the gears to the slack face of the gears and it makes the blower seem "poppy". It does seem more common on a cold engine for obvious reasons but I have even seen it on warm ones.

mypontiac

Yea. It happened a year ago when I originally installed the blower. I had to change a damaged belt and it did not do this with the new belt. The new belt was a little longer (a NAPA belt) than the Procharger provided Gates belt.

It has not done this again until I changed the pulley and went to a corresponding smaller belt.

To try to fix the problem, I loosened the belt as far as I felt comfortable and topped off the oil in the blower too. Wanted to try to relieve any stress on the blower bearings as best I could.

Just started her up (aound 8:30 pm and cool). No problem.

Wonder if a tight belt (even tighter during cold weather) adds more stress on the bearings and results in this problem?

mypontiac

The blower was torquing and popping so badly this moring that the belt got frayed on one end. Ended up cutting it off. $40 gone!

Looks like I am going back to the 3.90" pulley. Engine just doesn't like the idle air produced from the 3.40" during cold temperatures???

Probably should just be content with 10# pulley and 343 RWHP on the stock bottom end anyway.

But just for the record, when the engine was running smooth the boost with the 3.40" pulley comes on much faster than the 3.90" pulley. Very nice response!

mypontiac

I put the 3.90" pulley back on and things are back to normal.

Looks like the 3.40" pulley adds more air at an idle than my ECM can tune. As a result I was getting misfiring through the intake.

Since I am not using an adjustable fuel pressure regulator (kept blowing them under boost) I can't adjust my idle fuel pressure. So I will just be stricking with the 3.90" pulley now.

Anyone else going with the D-1SC and 3.40" pulley, please update this thread with your results.