94-6spd

Currently I am using nitrous and have a 10 sec. car. I'm really interested in running a single turbo like the BBS kit. I have a 406 that I plan to do this to. I need suggestions on which turbo to use along with wastegates and blow off valve. The kicker is that it needs to run on 93 octane. If I can't runs nines with a single then I'll just stay with N20. I'd say that 750-800 hp will get me deep into the nines. Any help will be appreciated.

high c

its recomended that anything over 350 cid needs twins

grover85

iTrader: (1)

You dont have to run twins. You would need like a t76 turbo to do it. If you are going to try and run that fast I wouldnt go with a bbs kit. Not that there bad kits. The headers just look restrictive. If I were you look into the B&G turbo kits. They would put you into the nines. You can get some good info on www.turbomustangs.com

BigL350

Really? Who's reccomendation is that?

JoBy

Generally one big turbo is more efficient than two smaller turbos.

Z69

Just try and prove that one........


T76GTQ .96 a/r exh


Do a search on TM. There was a guy on there with a 406 that used that setup. Dyno'd or strip tested, don't recall.
Bennet sells a kit 331 F*** that makes 900 fwhp at 18psi.
236 HR cam and lots of port work.
Your extra cid will make up for that part.

Kenwood

iTrader: (1)

LOL lol lol

Id like to know who recommends that.. I wonder why turbonetics, precision, innovative, etc etc,, waste time making things like T106 turbos.. Surely not just to power a 305 ...

Yes you can EASILY run 9's with a single turbo.. there are guys running 6's with single turbo...so 9's is no problem..Personally Id go a little bigger than a t76 with a 406 CI engine.. But thats just me..

D's89IROCZ

frig some of them six'rs are running big T-88's and doing that .


I got a BBS kit .... according to the books I read that were recomended on this site ....it conforms to a WELL designed turbo kit for the application it's ment for . MY I got the 650 hp kit ....and looks tight .... so you may wanna call them they to have bigger turbo's than my little T-62 Also very nice twin kits to deliver 1200 hp . But I am sure there are other good kits too .....just havent seen'm

tommyt

A T4 based exhaust housing will be too small for a V8 over
350cu.in. when used as a single. I would go either twins
or a large frame single. Twin T4 60-1's will get You in the 9s range and spool awesome. I am currently building a motor with a pair of 60-1 T4 Innovative turbos and the Innovative Turbo cast iron twin manifolds. I have a large bore
motown block, so could go to 400 , but I decided against it for durability concerns. I am going with a 3.48 stroke 377...lets You put nice strong parts in, long rods and strong pistons with nice ring packs. Leaves room for the cam as well... If I already had the 406, I would keep it tho...won't hurt any to have the extra cubes, although not really needed with turbos...

grover85

iTrader: (1)

This is the kit I was talking about.

grover85

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2

grover85

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3

94-6spd

grover, I really like the kit but it seems like the turbo and the headers are a little cramped. Seems like the heat from them would peel the paint off the engine compartment. That is a very cool kit though. Who makes this one? B&G?

grover85

iTrader: (1)

Yeah B&G makes this kit. They have been around a little while making mustang kits. I think the test car is just about done. I just like the design of the headers over the bbs kit. The only reason I say that is because of the log style header.

JoBy

They might 'look' better but you need to make a lot of power to see any gain over log style headers. The log style also have the benefits of less surface area to give away heat and they are more compact.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Most of the gains that anyone has seen going from a properly designed log to a tubular header are at the top end. The reason is that that they are more efficient, but that the log manifolds are end up getting too much heat/flow to the turbine and the turbine becomes a restriction sooner (and conversely, the turbo spools sooner also). If you swapped to a larger turbine housing the log manifold would make the same power up top as the tubular header would with the smaller turbine.

Z69

How so you properly design a log manifold?

For upping the a/r, are you say like a .69 to an .81 for twins or .96 to 1.xx for a single????

My T76 rec was based on seeing a sucessful app using the GTQ turbine and only wanting 800hp. Going above the T76 starts to get more expensive.

grover85

iTrader: (1)

I understand what your saying. I just look at this header and it just looks a little restrictive and uneven.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

well, the most important thing is to keep flow going towards the turbo at all times and even some nozzle setup that allows flow towards the turbo but restricts it from going back is helpful. There are dozens of patents, naca and sae papers about this if you really want to get into the finer points.

Within the constraints of the 3rd gen engine bay and packaging, the bbs setup isn’t that bad, it has some cronic bad points like the front port/wastegate setup, but it’s more good then bad.



Yep, something along those lines but the actual numbers really depend on what the engine is like (and it’s never as easy as “it’s a small block that needs…”)

The compressor side really won’t change, just the turbine side.

I’ve got an HX40 with a 22cm^2 turbine side (measuring it it looks to be about a .98 ar) that I’m going to try a manifold setup with (if I ever stop breaking driveline parts, right now I’ve got 2 twisted axles and a blown up 700r4 in the car parked in front of the house and a moser 9” and a 4L80e in the garage for it). I expect a very truck like power curve from it (maybe something like a stock GN), as in fully spooled well before 3000rpm, as a matter of fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if it is fully spooled significantly before 2500rpm. I suspect that later swapping for either the HX50 or 55 that I have sitting around I’ll still spool before 3000rpm (I don’t really see the point since even the 40 should move more then enough air pulverize the short block and want to do some more experimenting)… This is assuming a fairly open exhaust, but I’d be surprised if even the 3” cat back and even cat would be that big an issue with this setup.

JoBy was running a HX55 with his manifolds (which again, weren’t perfect) and I seem to remember that he was spooling around 3K… for reference, an HX55 can be compared to something like a T88 with a slightly bigger then normal turbine housing.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I *think* two pipes on the BBS pic could be improved. 1) cut off the cyl 8 pipe and go directly into the big (???diameter???) pipe in the center. 2) cutoff the WG pipe, tie the cyl 2 pipe directly into the center pipe. Tie the WG pipe directly into the center pipe.
I have looked at a thirdgen and don't understand when they didn't design the pipe that way. Looks like it would fit that way to me.

Are my thoughts really improvements? Or worse than the original design?

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Not sure how this really improves anything, but running it around like that lets you tuck it in tighter and leaves A LOT more room for a down pipe… I’ve done a few setups just like that, and hell, if you’re lazy you can snag a set of C4 vette headers and they are run that way also.

For the life of me I can’t figure out what he was thinking there.

I’ve gone slightly lower and further forward with the turbo, which largely takes care of that issue altogether

WhiteHawk

Can I get a link to the company who sells this? For a 3rd gen right?

CrazyHawaiian

To the original poster, if you need to do it on 93 octane, consider an intercooler and maybe even some type of injection. I know a few guys doing meth injection, some even spray nitrous. My good friend is able to boost over 2 bar with 93 octane and both of the above (different car/engine but still). As for single or twins, I think it depends on what the builder wants. Either setup could be configured to act any way you want.

grover85

iTrader: (1)

http://www.bgturbokits.com/
I dont think they have them on there web site yet. But they have them. I think they were going for 600 700 bucks a set.

94-6spd

I'm starting to dig the B&G kit. Especially for only $600-$700. How does the down pipe run? I do plan on using an intercooler for the 93 octane. When I go to the track I might add some 110 just like I do for the spray.

high c

corky bell auther of " MAXIMUM BOOST" PG.37
"over. 350cid, twin turbos become a virtual necessity

Z69

Old info
You can't make big power with a small single

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Old info... naw, big turbos have been around as long as turbos have been around, that was never correct info. Much like the rest of that book, most of what he presents as a fact is at best an opinion or advertisement for his own products (which don’t come big enough to run as a single for most V8’s).

The book does have some pretty pictures though.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Man you should go look at some real world cars then.
a quote from

TurboNova on the turbomustang site.

1236.1 hp and 914 ft/tq and it was still climbing when I lifted. These are Dyno Dynamics numbers and usually read low by 15% compared to a Dyno Jet chassis dyno. This was at 35psi

http://www.brianmacy.com/multimedia/...opull_0001.wmv

The car went 8.23 @ 172 last year with about 300-400 less hp and having trouble spooling the turbo. Lets just say it will be in the 7s somewhere.

http://www.brianmacy.com/horsepowerconnection.htm

Not just a DYNO queen either

http://www.brianmacy.com/multimedia/brianmacy8.74.wmv

http://www.brianmacy.com/multimedia/Run%20Bremerton.wmv

383backinblack

preston smith has been doing just that for YEARS in his turbo 305 iroc.....9.8 on race gas, very low 10's on pump.

most people on this board are familiar with that car its pretty legendary as far as thirdgens go.....the guy is awesome he lives right up the street, i pick his brain often.

i have tons of pics of his setup, but im too lazy to resize them right now so i can post them here lol......if you do a search for preston smith or smitty, im sure you'll find some good info on here about it.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

whats goin on man. Havent talked to you in a while.

Zip them pic's up and send em to me. I'll host em.

Unless they are the ones I already have.

http://www.cecoatings.com/images/oth...oCars/preston/

94-6spd

I have a few more questions about the single turbo. I plan on using a turbonetics T70 with a P-trim. Will I have much lag with this turbo. I'll probably also go with the ceramic ball bearing unit. I spoke to B&G about a kit and he recommends a Precision PT70. The headers are $950. A little more than I want to spend. They also are about 12 weeks behind and after the first of the year it'll be worse. Still I want the response just like I had with the N20. Low 60' times are a must. Is it hard to build boost on the starting line while foot braking? If their is much lag and harder to lauch consistently I may go with a Procharger D-1SC.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

I belive the 12 weeks and more behind. I ordered a set 1/2 year ago and he said 3 weeks. that turned into MONTHS and I finally said forget it and made my own.


If you size the turbo right you wont have any lag. Look for compresor maps and map out your setup. Call around to a few big shops like presision, Innovative and see what they have to say. After all THEY make the turbos