zapo

Here is the deal.

Car is a 88 350 TPI camaro. Has a fresh engine with Forged pistons and a mild 212/212 flat tappet cam. Otherwise the engine is stock TPI 350. It has full length headers and 3.5" single exhaust. The transmission is a fresh 700R4 with a transgo and a S10 stall (about 2400 RPM). With stock 2.73 gear and slicks the car runs consistent 8.6 cool and 8.7 fully warm in the 1/8th.

This winter a 255LPH intank fuel pump and 42# injectors are going in along with megasquirt. This is my 5th megasquirt install and am not to concerned about this area.

I have decided on a D1 (non SC) procharger system with a 3 core intercooler.
I plan to run the largest SC pulley for the lowest boost (still about 12 psi).
I picked the D1 for its 4.44 ratio and the fact that I can run huge pulleys, make lots of cool boost and not eat belts or even come close to maxing the supercharger out. From what I have learned so far the biggest problem with superchargers is belts. Overtightening and small pullies fighting to make boost seems like bad news, the D1 should be very relaxed at only 500hp. I have done the P1SC thing on a different car already and don't really care for the self contained supercharger oil change mess and oil prices.

The car is a daily driver, often driving 4 hours to race a weekend then driving back (yea there is trailers around for the next season when the 10 bolt or 700R4 blows up). I considered turbos, but aside from having to throw away headers and exhaust that I just did, I want to keep this car a very consistent bracket racer, turbo's are a little tricky to leave consistent with and I feel the a supercharger will do better in this area. Also when the engine was built, someone mistakenly stuck flat tops in it instead of the dish top pistons I requested. With around 9.5 to 1 compression I don't see typical street type turbos with full boost at or below 3000 RPM as an easy pump gas tuning scenario. The later and slightly cooler boost of the Procharger will actually work to my advantage in this area. I do expect that I will have a little trouble with pump gas and may need a little meth injection even with the prochargers later boost curve.


So with that long rant, if you see flaws in my logic, or have some new information about the procharger system that I should know, or have had trouble with superchargers4less.com (where I am sourcing this from), then please respond.

84z28350

Sounds mean!

With 9.5:1 CR and 12psi boost, what kind of fuel do you plan on running?

Sounds pretty steep for pump gas, even with i/c

86Z

iTrader: (4)

i run 9.5:1 with 11psi of boost on my D1SC 305 TPI with 93 octane

1987CamaroZ28

I know this is an old post, but ...
86Z, you are running a very similar setup, to where i'm going. I spoke with two different people ATI, and they said i'd have a really hard time tuning the 305 TPI with anything even close to 10psi. I too want to go with the D1, since it will grow with my next engine. I know you said you would have gone with a 350 or a 383 if you did it again, but i'm going with the underdog. Who tuned your car? Based on seeing some of your sig codes, i'm thinking maybe you tuned some of it yourself. Any help is appreciated. Was wondering if you ran into major tuning issues

86Z

iTrader: (4)

i tuned the car myself, i have no problem with the 14#'s max i make, although it's far from stock no FMU, 42lb injectors, etc.. check out www.nec-f.org i hang out there.

Shinobi'sZ

I will be watching to see how you like this kit and if they give you everything they need to do the job correctly. Best of luck on your project looking forward in seeing the results.

When you rebuilt the motor did you put in a block that uses a 4 bolt main. I broke 2 stock cranks on my 87 IROCZ...crappy 2 bolt mains.


What kind of tune do they give you?

AC

iTrader: (3)

Shinobi, they DON'T give you any sort of tune. Procharger provides a FMU to manage fuel pressure and is typically considered a band aid approach. The real way to do it right IMO is buy bigger injectors to handle the increased fuel demands and tune around that.
86Z knows his stuff, he's the one that taught me what I didn't learn on my own for tuning and was a big help in getting my beast running last season.

Shinobi'sZ

I am hoping that it wasn't interpretted that I was stating that anybody else didn't know their stuff (86Z). I was simply asking what Procharger was offerring? I agree that simply tuning with fuel pressure leaves a lot left desired.

You see when the P1SC first came out for the C5 01/02 they sold injectors and a hand held tuner...both along with the kit were exceptionally bad. This is why I purchased the D1 Tuner kit so that I wasn't purchasing parts that I knew weren't up to the task. But it ended up that the bracket system with that first kit had horrible quality control (pullies and brackets not milled correctly) this led to belt shredding and also the cofiguration of the bracket didn't wrap enough belt around the pully and when at the drag strip and under load would slip horribly....it took aftermarket tuners to correct this issue...and is well known in the Corvette coummunity.

But the point of my question is that if I decide to not do a Turbo system on my 91 or 2000 Fbody...that I may go back to a supercharger. I may get the bracket for the Corvette and see if I can mate it to the L98 so I can use a Vortec or Novi.

After all that I will be hitting the guys up on this board who know their stuff with respect to tuning because I don't know squat about how to tune these cars for FI.

AC

iTrader: (3)

Shinobi, no prob. I didnt' mean to say you thought 86 didn't know his stuff. I was just giving him the props he deserves. I also didn't read or realize you had already had experience with Procharger. Maybe they do give you handhelds with D1's. That's a novel idea for them but its like a Superchip for other vehicles....IMO, useless.

Sounds like what you posted in the #1st thread makes sense and you're on your way. The only thing I change or consider is a self contained setup. For the extra money, the piece of mind is worth it IMO.

1987CamaroZ28

Guys! I have the right audiance, something I just read here made me reconsider my build plans, and now I need some help. I have the MAF harness, and not the MAP, so I can't do any of the programming like 3 bar 59 programming. I have to use the FMU setup (unless i convert to a MAP harness). That being said, should I NOT get the 30lb injectors that were recommended for my build plan? I have the 305 TPI, and I'm planning on getting the intercooled ATI P1SC. Based on the displacement and boost, 30lb injectors were suggested by ATI and Ed Wright. Now, since I need to use the FMU, should I NOT get the 30lb injectors, and get instead, something like 19lb Ford injectors, and let the FMU handle? Please help!!

AC

iTrader: (3)

19lbs or 22lbs would do if you can't do any tuning. ATI's kits were designed for the use of ALL OEM original equipment. ie, the injectors. For the 305, I'd stick with the 19lb'ers. Hope this helps.

1987CamaroZ28

Thanks man. I did read quite a bit up on the fact that OEM 19 pounders lock up when the demand is high. Are you familiar with this?

vipershark11

iTrader: (6)

i hear that a lot on here about the factory injectors so the easy solution is either aftermarket or svo injectors same size.

8T9 BANDIT

I have a p1-sc with a 305 tpi, I run 24# ford motorsport injectors with the stock tune, and FMU, car runs great. Im ordering a smaller pulley this week, im aiming for 12pds.

1987CamaroZ28

Thanks Bandit, for the info. This is encouraging news. What made you go with the 24 lb over 19? You didn't change your prom? My next job, is to determine which head gaskets i'll need for my trick flow aluminum heads.

tom86iroc

iTrader: (1)

87 get cometic HG those are the ones im gonna use

1987CamaroZ28

Thanks, I'm still trying to decide which ones to go with, man. I went to their website and they look like serious gaskets. I'm going with the gaskets that Trick Flow suggests using 1003, its part of the of Fel Pro Performance line. who knows..

Those cometic gaskets are $137 beans! Man, this build has got me in the RED. Can't stop now... I just ordered my heads, head gaskets, roller rockers, head bolts, etc from Summit. Eek, another $1600 bucks!

86Z

iTrader: (4)

is your engine modified in anyway? my 305 is modified with heads, full exhaust, accel runners and base all ported out, crane cam. etc... and i had 30# injectors and the supplied FMU was all the way up and i still had to edit the ECU to add more fuel at 100kpa

AKS_Racing

Even though these are awesome head gaskets and I myself use MLS gaskets, they are overkill unless you are pushing over 1BAR (14.7 psi). I have run many combos with the FelPro thin gaskets with no failure issues. But you need to make sure the tune is correct, as detonation will eat through head gaskets (not to mention pistons, ring lands, spark plugs, etc) in short order.
Aaron

1987CamaroZ28

Yep, here are the basic 305 TPI mods:

• Trick Flow 175 56cc aluminum (TFS 30300006) heads
• comp cam #08-304-8 (266HR-14) in/210 220/ex dur and 500/510 lift @50 with LSA 114
• ported stock intake base
• AS&M runners
• Ported plenum
• TES headers, Random Cat, flowmast muff
• gutted MAF, air foil (is that even worth mentioning?!)... MSD 6AL, TB bypass...etc etc

hmmm, i'll contact ATI again and see what they feel i should do about the injector size. I do appreciate the feedback. Man, there's nothing tried and true because of the endless combinations.

8T9 BANDIT

do the 24# motorsports, trust me, ive done all the research. lb9 + boost and supporting mods(intake, exhaust,cam, ignition) works perfect with those injectors. Instead of the reg msd6al, get the 6btm with timing retard. I really do want those heads. Maybe ill wait for a rebuild though. what do you have for the tranny, stall and rear?

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

I would have to disagree on the 24# for your combo. Even 30# on my stock engine with 10psi was pushing it. If you can get into chip burning you can pretty much pick whatever injector you want.

1987CamaroZ28

Thanks. I'm leaning toward the 24 pounders since I can't do any of the 3 bar, etc etc programing with the MAF system. I still have yet to check with ATI, i'll do that now. I spoke with Ed Wright a little while back and he thought he had a PROM program that fits my build.

1987CamaroZ28

Would you still have the same response if you knew my harness is the MAF setup? I have to use the FMU, and am limited on the programming side.

8T9 BANDIT

put it this way, Technically you can use the stock injectors, but they suck, most likely there worn. And under WOT they "lock up" ive heard. the 24pds are perfect. when using an fmu. Ask ed wright.

1987CamaroZ28

Thanks again man. It makes sense to me. You are right, the kit indicates it's made as a bolt on and requires no modifications. I've experienced the lock up when I was experiementing with the AFPR. However, getting injectors that are more suitable for the application would be nice. I'm still planning on contacting ATI, and I'll verify it will Ed Wright like you said. I'll follow up.
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Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

Yes I would and I do know your running a MAF setup, you can still program your chip for bigger injectors and I'am pretty sure if you wanted to you can program it to run without the FMU by setting up some of the tables since running a supercharger is linear in the way it makes boost. Coarse you could always do what I did and covert over your MAF harness to run with the $59 code.

Either way just make sure you get a WB02 hooked up to the car, probably will be your best tuning aid.

tom86iroc

iTrader: (1)

87camaro there are acouple of guys from a new england camaro forum that run prochargers you should check it out they can help you a bunch and they are local guys