community

so im throwing around the idea of making a bolt on turbo kit that would be for sale with all the guess work takin out of it just a bolt on and go from headers to intercoolers and all the piping inbetween just looking for any input from you guys on what you would spend on a complete kit and what you would be looking for out of the kit i was thinking fully tig welded 1 3/4 inch headers and 2.5 inch cold side piping with twin intercoolers and would you guys prefer a twin turbo or sinle turbo and like i said just your input on the idea i wanna know if its worth my time to fabricate a kit cause i know for a fact that noone makes a kit for our cars so shoot me some ideas thanks for all your 2 cents theyll add up to something big someday

alex91z28

simple one turbo,intercooler,that will fit with ac and that will fit serpentine drive belt cars. price not to high

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

You would be best off just making the headers and piping to/from everything. There are too many options for turbos and IC.

antoine

That would be cool cause know one is making a complete kit for the thirdgen community.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Just hotside parts would be a great start for a single or twin. Likely a single with the turbo near the passenger battery area. Relocate battery to trunk, keep everything else the same. Use stock serp accessory brackets and such.

community

finally some replies to this man i do know that the hot side would be a big improvement over whats out there but the end goal would be a complete kit with everything and an option list thats a mile long and if i could get at least 10 people to say they would buy a kit then i would definitaly think hard about making a kit with jigs and tons of options. the very end game would be to make a profitable business out of this so on another note how does schedule 10 stainless headers sound they will be pricey but the quality of the schedule 10 would be amazing and im pretty sure the headers that everyone else is running are not even close to the quality of what i would sell so please every one give your 2 cents please i was also thinking about doing the twin intercoolers on a single turbo to start. the kits will probably be in the 5-8k range but hey you gotta pay to play so to speak if you catch my drift and you wont have to fab a kit yourself just bolt it on

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I thought about doing something like this myself and may venture into this later on this year. I was considering mild steel and also simple setups using weld els in schedule 10 to 40 for longevity purposes.

Custom headers out of normal mild steel or stainless header tubing could be done for more race applications.

Problem with all these options is alot of different fabrication requirements. Build one kit around a set of engine accessories and it wont fit another with a different setup.

Guys looking for 9 second setups likely wont be running stock L98 TPI engine acccessories so their kit will be different than the guy looking to make 400-500whp with some small GN turbos on a budget twin kit.

I love options but that will get difficult.

I like the idea of stainless but I know its pricey and starts increasing the cost to levels many in this market wont pay.

5-8K is reasonable for a complete kit, but MOST here I feel wont beable to go that direction.

Make a budget single setup for 3K or less and now your talking. Thats my goal, to make a simple mild steel setup for well under 3k because thats about what i have into my twin setup. Figured less piping, easier to make manifold, and less turbo stuff i can hash out a decent kit for 3K and make ok profit.

community

how about a log style header out of stainless schedule 10 pipe with 2.5 inch crossover and a t4 flange to start with on a factory accessorie car just starting out with the headers and if theres super interest in them then go ahead with a complete kit for a factory car say in the 4k range with a few different options

project89

iTrader: (1)

to build a hotside out of the proper stainless u would have well over 2k in materials alone

the stianless headers on my v6 car that i built are made out of 316l and 321 stainless with 321 stainless flanges, materials alone were in upwards of 1,200 bucks.
though it didnt actually cost me a thing since it was leftover material i had at the shop

put it this way one 316L 90* weld el .065 wall is around 37 bucks and the same thing in 321 is about double that

the only cheap stainless ur going to get is 304 stainless and thats about as good quality as the ebay turbo kits, they will be brittle and crack in the tubes under the stress of a turbo setup.

for n/a headers 304 would be fine though

project89

iTrader: (1)

this is what 1,200 bucks in materials gets u just enough to build something like this




and thats handmaking the collectors and flanges if u have to buy those predone add on another 600 bucks in material cost to build a proper set of turbo headers out of the correct stianless

i can build twin turbo header sets out of mild steel that will outlast the car there going on for under 200 bucks

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

^ dude you got bent over if you paid 1200 for that material, I dont know where you get your stuff but you should shop around... Plus you can buy fabbed stainless v8 turbo headers for less.

Since we are throwing ideas around about fabbing turbo kits and such, I have access to a shop with casting capabilities, and I have considered making a set of solid works files to print out on the 3d plotter and use to cast some SBC manifolds that are basically header style inside but really thick like LS truck manifolds to be used for turbo setups. If I ever get around to it it would be easy to pop out 10 or so sets.

I feel like the header/manifold is the most difficult part of the hotside for people to make, if you just make a couple well designed, quality header types with 2.5" v-bands on the collectors I think they would sell well and allow people to make their own cross overs (which is the easy part) and let them tailor their setup to their individual cars.

If you makign third gen specific ones, your gonna need to atleast have a mild steel option because the third gen market (on here atleast) is not gonna pay for SS

project89

iTrader: (1)

noone relizes what hi quality stainless actually costs go price up some 321 stainless and tell me that the cost isnt on that isnt some .025 thick 304 stainless thats .065 wall 321 stainless the only thing better is iconel

community

a friend of mine makes the s10 turbo kits and he uses schedule 10 304 stainless and has not had any cracking issues and he has made and sold alot of kits and no problems

project89

iTrader: (1)

http://www.burnsstainless.com/90degreebends-3.aspx

55 to 200 bucks a single bend

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

Its $43 bucks for a 1.75" u bend in 321 SS on that site(first one when you google.. you must really deal with this stuff a lot... ). I have built plenty with high grade stainless for marine applications, you need to find a supplyer thats not so high if you really paid 1200 for that small amount of material....

and inconel* you've gotta be kidding, thats a bit extreme for a set of turbo headers.

project89

iTrader: (1)

the stuff i used was actually the best stainless u could buy it was for medical stuff, but even standard 321 is hella exspensive, i didnt have to pay for the materials but i did total up what it would have cost to buy

u gota rember i had some 321 stainless plate and 321 3 inch tubing in there as well to make the collectors

i dont buy from burns we had our own suppliers that are cheaper but ur average person wont be able to buy from these suppliers

i used to do alot of work with stainless from headers to medical field stuff for hospitals , stainless machine guards, hoppers ,and scrap bins etc

yes iconel is way overkill for any of us, i wa sjust stating that the only thing better then using the right high quality stainless is iconel

304 will work if done right but it has to be much thicker and it has to welded just as carefully as the 316L and 321 stainless


if u want to build headers most can afford use mild steel i would rather have a set of mild steel header over a set of 304 stainless in a turbo application

304 is just not rated for the amount of heat seen in turbo applications and eventually it will fail,when noone knows it might be 6 months it might be 3 years it depends on alot of things

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I would be interested in a SBC cast manifold set that looked like the LS manifolds. Count me in. I would install a boss on both sides to accept a T4 twin setup in addition to the outlets for the single turbo piping. The end user can install block off plates on the T4 ports.
Selling turbo kits to thirdgen owners is a tough go. The desired quality and price desired varies so wildly that it is hard to make a kit and sell enough to pay for the tooling.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Your friend is very wise, schedule 10 304 will last quite a long time, and will easily support the weight of the turbo without it needing a bracket. I also find schedule 10 being a lot cheaper than 16ga bent tubing. 321 is a waste of money...

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

If you can just make the headers, that would be the hardest part. Most people won't mess with turbos because of the need for good headers.

community

so after hearing all the talk i think ill start with the headers and downpipe out of schedule 10 and see how that goes so knowing that in the real world what would you guys pay for a good set of schedule 10 turbo headers with i mild steel downpipe with either a t3 or t4 flange i want a reality number for the price

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Just for reference, a set of 10secgoal's headers in 16ga mild steel can be had for 600-700 bucks. Small shorty type with collector that dumps in front of the valve cover.

You'd have to compete with something like that but make it fit thirdgens more specifically. His were kinda universal but do work in these cars.

If doing it for a single turbo it must be atleast T4. Option for a T6 borg warner S400 series would be a good idea since those turbos are so nice on a budget.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I just completed mine using 409ss, but I only did the turbo header and half of the crossover, the shorty header on the drivers side was already done. I think BBS used to charge something like $500 for just the turbo header itself, and I'm not even sure what he used for materials, although I have been told that it was pretty hefty stuff. Don't even bother with T3 flanges unless you conisder making a twin setup as well. As far as price, just calculate the parts purchased to make them, then factor in what you think your time in making them is worth...

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

BBS header is MASSIVE. Super thick schedule 40 stuff. Way overkill for most applications I think but then again, depends. Most guys wth turbo cars arent going to be dailly driving for 10's of thousands of miles so what is longevity really?

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Schedule 10 would by best. Use 1 1/2 pipe. I think 1 1/4 pipe is too small but most people make headers out of because it is a lot easier to fit to the header flange. With 1 1/2 pipe you have to make adapters from the header flange to the pipe. I think it is worth it.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I've been trying to find this guy, lazily, for the last month.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

theturboforums or yellowbullet.com is where I normally see him. Not sure how active he is, but used to be for sure.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Did you hear that Community? I'm looking for a set of turbo headers....

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

I'd be interested- looked at a single turbo system myself:

- make it flexible and compact for those who transplant the TPI into other vehicles, think trucks.

- build the manifolds to the horsepower/torque expected- 650+hp= tubular, maybe the rest of can get away with cheaper log style.

- instead of ss maybe mild steel coated.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

If anyone has seen how the LT1 guys do it, they have a few kits available depending on hp goals. LT1boost.net . they have log manifold kit with Turbonetics turbo for 4500+ shipping. Hot side parts only, no cold side. I think its abit steep but its a nice kit. 650-700hp can be made. For higher hp they do the tubular header style stuff with larger turbos. 700+ hp and 5000 bucks later. Hot side only.

My budget twin turbo deal had roughly 3500 into it for everything, turbos/coldside/hotside/intercooler/etc. I'm not sure how a log kit would run that expensive but it is what it is...lots of fab time involved so the builder charges a premium.

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

Anyone actually see a running combo with the single turbo being driven by one side only?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

project89

iTrader: (1)

think he meant the turbo only hooked up to 4 cyls i.e one side of the engine

volvo tried a setup like that years ago and it worked but it wasnt all that great.
the camshaft was ground with 2 different lobes one set of lobes for the side hooked to the turbo and another set of lobes for the side of the motor that didnt have the turbo

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Yeah, I just reread what he wrote. Would need individual cylinder tuning...

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

Yea- saw a couple of installs on the net- Martin kits, older stuff. Seems to me the breathing would be compromised. For a single turbo for a 355, afr heads and tpi is there any oe apps that are close- I want torque for bottom end and mid range towing, 9:1, auto. I'm thinking diesal maybe?

breynolds

iTrader: (1)

Any more details on this? I'm definitely interested if the price is right.

community

i am starting to get prices for the materials and the kit is in r&d as soon as i start making the kit you guys will be the first to see pics and have updates

Ice cold spit

Also very interested

ChristianZ28

subscribed...I'm listening!!!!

jpearcy1

iTrader: (1)

If the price is right i could use some headers for a single turbo on my 2.8 v6. Starting to set my budget and would like headers instead of the under k member style I am looking at right now. Let me know how things go. Good Luck

Badass355ciz28

iTrader: (17)

subscribing...would also like to see what you have in mind

kilroy45

I am very interested in the complete turbo kit....just bought a new 2.8l shortblock and getting ready to do the rebuild...what would be a good cam set up to use for a T4 turbo set up...thinking of having the Trans rebuilt also...should I put a shift kit in it and any mods needed for the computer...

11ellswray

iTrader: (1)

This is freaking me out! Very exciting. I would pay for a single turbo setup, about 6-8psi on a stock or slightly warmed over TPI 350. I would put 3500 as my max price.(more if it truly is bolton and go) also an option for the guys with really worked over or higher cube cars. Maybe allow retrofit to increase the power. The fabrication is one of the major challenges holding people back. Second in line may be tuning. what could we do to simplify or streamline that step?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

If you only have up to 10 psi on stock motors, then do same thing as supercharger kits do. FMU and maybe larger injectors. Definately a walbro 255 pump and it should compensate enough. Need a strong fuel pressure reg tho. High pressures may risk damage to the diaphragms.

11ellswray

iTrader: (1)

I think a simple, single turbo setup would be great. A factory type setup with quick(ish) spooling middle of the pack psi and low maintenance. BUt i think we may already be asking too much from a 3-4k turbo kit

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I eventually will be looking into a hotside kit myself. Mild steel, basic, cheap. Wont be the longest lasting but works. Could expand that to more expensive materials like stainless or thicker weld els, sch 10 or sch 40 pipes. We shall see. Basic single kit. I think it could be done well under 3-4k