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The results are in on my lastest project and I must
tell you I am really elated.
First off, I would like to take this opportunity to extend my appreciation
to those that helped me reach my goals, without
them it would not have been possible.
A special thanks to Pat (Long beach Z28) for allowing me
to use his engine while I reworked mine.
A very "big" thank you to Jerry (Jerrywho) for lending his
expertise in reworking my engine parts.
A "right on" to all those lending their support
along the way, (Kevin) Kevin91z, (Allen)1989 GTA Trans Am,
(Rich) Parrydice7 (for getting his hands dirty),
(Vince) VincentZ28 (for his gentle push) and to
any others I might have missed.
Now for the details .....
Saturdays dyno testing resulted in an output
of 373 HP & 410 TQ to the rear wheels. (Kevin's awesome tuning)
For those not familiar with my set up, it is comprised of:
355 CI Vortec short block 10.6-1
Edelbrock E-tec 200 heads (reworked by jerrywho)
Crower cam 277/286 1.6 rockers
SLP runners (modded by jerrywho)
Vortec base (modded by jerrywho)
My 1 3/4" headers w/dual cats &
3" catback w/Magnaflow muffler
52MM TB
Thanks to all the guys who attended the dyno session,
for their support and putting up with my moddest
acceptance of their accolades. (he he)
Congrats on one KILLER combo uncle Don! You have once again raised the legit TPI performance bar. It's a good thing you had so many witnesses (credible and otherwise!) to the dyno tests because your results are gonna cause a big stir among all those high performance TPI naysayers.
That is Sick... Way to put down the power! Definitely sounds like a fun set-up you got there. How is the 9 bolt holding up? Posi still good?
One of these days, I am going to drop off my car and have you port and polish my superram, and get Kevins tuning, and hopefully join everyone in the High Power Smog legal group.
__________________
88 Firebird Formula 350 89k miles 13.1 @ 105... 1.8 60ft W/ low compression in 2 cylinders and smaller cam... Superram- Trickflow AL Heads- 268XFI *3290 LBS*
To Do List: Tranny (#3), Rearend (#3), Paint... Then DONE!!!
The local drag strip is going to be interesting this year with the cars comming on line with new engines. We are going to make a heck of a showing at the LA Invasion next year. Those 4th gen cars are going to wonder what is going on.
The local drag strip is going to be interesting this year with the cars comming on line with new engines. We are going to make a heck of a showing at the LA Invasion next year. Those 4th gen cars are going to wonder what is going on.
Looks like we may have our hands full during the Norcal Vs Socal meet...
Don I clicked on your link in post #11 in both Internet Explorer and Firefox and it didn't work in either browser. I think something is broken in that link.
__________________ "Aerodynamics are for people who can't make horsepower"-Enzo Ferrari
I stood there and watched the numbers come up, and his numbers crushed my numbers for a 383 long-tube true-duals car on the same dyno on the same day with the same tuner. It's not magic, it's hard work, lots of experimentation and testing, and working with others that are pretty sharp as well. Congrats and thanks for the help.
We have done that using the NHRA correction factors and that lowers our times quite abit. That would make a 11 second car out of mine and the others deep into the 12's. I'm sure using the correction factor Don would have an 11 second car with his new motor if he could only drive.
He should easily... my first passes at the strip in the heat were 11.6's at 116 and I dyno'd about 380whp/360wtq ish on my rough street tune. Dyno tuned in the heat with a heat soaked motor, it made 392/372 I think, with torque dropping off each run due to heat of the motor. Probly 400/380 or more cold and it ran 11.4's at 118-119 then.
You have traction,and can launch that T56 strong, you have 11 second car thats the key tho, getting a 1.6x 60 foot with that stick shift. I had an auto and easily got 1.55's without too much effort
A little lesson here in Don's story. First you cannot just bolt parts together and expect to make power. On Don's first version of the motor he cleaned up the parts for a little better flow and made decent enough power. More than one would get from just bolting the parts together.
After analyzing the situation he realized there was a lot more power to be had. So he went back in and worked on the heads and the intake manifold and had a substantial gain in power. In fact right at the top for a 355TPI motor. So there is more to it than just bolting on parts as most of us know.
Last lesson is don't believe the numbers put out by Edelbrock.
Last edited by 1989GTATransAm; 08-17-2009 at 02:21 PM.
Now even though they are not smog legal in CA, what do you think your numbers would be like if you slapped a miniram or a stealth ram on there? I think it would be interesting.
The Mini-ram is too small for a 350. With the mods Jerry has done to Don's base and runners, I'm not sure that a stealth ram would make any difference at usable rpms. Kevin already tested the set up of stock but ported plenum with a stock large base and the modified runners Jerry made against a super ram on his car and made 10 more hp with the modded tpi.
__________________ "Aerodynamics are for people who can't make horsepower"-Enzo Ferrari
A little lesson here in Don's story. First you cannot just bolt parts together and expect to make power. On Don's first version of the motor he cleaned up the parts for a little better flow and made decent enough power. More than one would get from just bolting the parts together.
After analyzing the situation he realized there was a lot more power to be had. So he went back in and worked on the heads and the intake manifold and had a substantial gain in power. In fact right at the top for a 355TPI motor. So there is more to it than just bolting on parts as most of know.
Last lesson is don't believe the numbers put out by Edelbrock.
That is exactly right....
That is why we share our experiences here on this site so others may learn.
Pay attention to details, they are SO important!!!
The Mini-ram is too small for a 350. With the mods Jerry has done to Don's base and runners, I'm not sure that a stealth ram would make any difference at usable rpms. Kevin already tested the set up of stock but ported plenum with a stock large base and the modified runners Jerry made against a super ram on his car and made 10 more hp with the modded tpi.
I think you mean a 350 is too small for a miniram? A miniram with its short runner intake likes a bigger engine underneath it to get some torque back.
I think a miniram vs our modded TPI intake would result in less torque and similar horsepower numbers.
So I've been doing some reading,... this thread, the tpi shootout thread, and the quest for better flowing tpi, as well as many others. In the tpi shootout thread I see they are using flywheel numbers, and in this thread its rwhp/rwtq numbers. I know that the power loss between different transmissions will be different, and even different with the same trans depending on how its built and so-on, but my question is, on average, how much parasitic loss can be expected between the flywheel and the ground? Also will the gearing in the rear end give different hp/tq numbers on a chassis dyno?
That, and I was also wondering about the mpg. In another thread I've seen Kevin claim mpg as high as the low 20s. How well does your car do Don?
So I've been doing some reading,... this thread, the tpi shootout thread, and the quest for better flowing tpi, as well as many others. In the tpi shootout thread I see they are using flywheel numbers, and in this thread its rwhp/rwtq numbers. I know that the power loss between different transmissions will be different, and even different with the same trans depending on how its built and so-on, but my question is, on average, how much parasitic loss can be expected between the flywheel and the ground? Also will the gearing in the rear end give different hp/tq numbers on a chassis dyno?
That, and I was also wondering about the mpg. In another thread I've seen Kevin claim mpg as high as the low 20s. How well does your car do Don?
I believe the parasitic loss between the flywheel and the rear end on average is calculated at about 15%. As far as the gearing question.....I don't believe changing the gearing will give you higher or lower hp/tq numbers, what the gearing will do is shift the hp/tq numbers up or down in the rpm range on the graph....if I'm wrong someone please jump in and correct me.
I believe the parasitic loss between the flywheel and the rear end on average is calculated at about 15%. As far as the gearing question.....I don't believe changing the gearing will give you higher or lower hp/tq numbers, what the gearing will do is shift the hp/tq numbers up or down in the rpm range on the graph....if I'm wrong someone please jump in and correct me.
I don't think gearing changes where an engine makes torque or hp it just changes the speed of the vehicle where the torque and hp peak at. On the dyno, you won't see a difference, but on the street or strip it will effect all sorts of things from mileage to e.t. to trap speed in the quarter. On a road racing course it will effect lap times and how well the car will accelerate out of corners compared to top speed on the longest straight.
A car with very tall rear end gears will actually show lower torque/hp at the wheels if tested in the same gear vs a higher ratio (shorter) gears. However, it is a simple method to just test with the transmission in a lower gear, and it all comes out about the same.
I don't think gearing changes where an engine makes torque or hp it just changes the speed of the vehicle where the torque and hp peak at. On the dyno, you won't see a difference, but on the street or strip it will effect all sorts of things from mileage to e.t. to trap speed in the quarter.
Yeah the more I thought about it, I'd have to say yea I was incorrect about the dyno....shouldn't make a difference.
A car with very tall rear end gears will actually show lower torque/hp at the wheels if tested in the same gear vs a higher ratio (shorter) gears. However, it is a simple method to just test with the transmission in a lower gear, and it all comes out about the same.
TA
I really liked the numbers mine put out when it downshifted into 2nd.
. Those are great numbers! Weren't your hp numbers before around 325? Besides the tune what else did you do to the car? Congrats on that. 
