1BADDAM

Just a heads up.....

Smogged the TTA yesterday. Unknown to me they lowered all the maximum allowable emissions by 30% across the board since last time I had the car smogged in 08.

MAX HC @ 15 - 80 ppm (74)
MAX HC @ 25 - 62 ppm (61)

MAX CO @ 15 - .52% (.11)
MAX CO @ 25 - .42% (.07)

MAX NO @ 15 - 549 ppm (527)
MAX NO @ 25 - 507 ppm (381)

As you can see, I just sqeeked by. Normally I'm running in the 90's, low 100's on the HC, but this time I added 3 gallons of E85 to a half a tank of 91 which brought them down - good thing or I surely would have failed.

Anybody know when they did this?

Guest

To get rid of the older cars.

Funny how its ok for them to lower the standards but we cant do anything to the car to lower its emissions output as far as devices or changing programming.

injdinjn

Just greedy govt parasites.

Time to revert to the amount of govt we had in 1780.

injdinjn

That might apply to more than just TTAs.

Whoever gets a smog check on other F bodies should post the pass numbers. If they changed 30% also, a lot of people are gonna fail. My stock 80K 5.7 just barely passed last Feb.

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

yes it whent in effect in march, i posted replies on threads about it but guys here wouldn't believe me lol i found out bc my friends car didn't pass bc of that... and yes it applies to all of the cars that were made on the 80 and later models

Gumby

If you can approach it in a professional maner, ACLU, start a class action to stop them from stacking the deck.

Limits should be raised with age.

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

EPA would step up.... "CALIFORNIA" alone will stop global warming. lol

Gumby

If it wern't for people who took the time to fight, the EPA would of made you hand over any car older then 5yr old at gun point and then charge you for disposel.


Lots of unjust laws are past and not till fought do they go away.

Like the redlight ones, everyone passed those laws and put em up but here in Ohio, every time the law group shows up to do a local classaction, they win and the city loses and bye by to the law. But no one is taking them down till forced as it makes money.

thegooseman

How do you find out what the max numbers are for your car? I should be fine but I would still like to know.

Duane's 91 Z/28

iTrader: (1)

The ACLU could care less about Camaros and Firebirds or any other muscle car for that matter. They hate freedom and are doing everything to take all our rights away...even our rights to own musclecars!!

injdinjn

The ACLU would be of zero help. SEMA is about the only org that keeps us abreast of what CARB and the AQMD is doing.

Problem is most of the rules are established by a board that has no political connections, you can't vote them out, and their decisions are cast in stone.
The best way to describe them is a military dictatorship in a unarmed populace.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"The ACLU could care less about Camaros and Firebirds or any other muscle car for that matter. They hate freedom and are doing everything to take all our rights away...even our rights to own musclecars!!"

You have that right.

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

also you might be able to fight against laws on small states but not Killafornia specially now that the state is desperate on making money to get out of debt

ringo234

Funny I smogged mine on 3/29/2010 and these were the MAX.

MAX HC @ 15 -108 ppm (78)
MAX HC @ 25 -83 ppm (71)

MAX CO @ 15 - .71% (.17)
MAX CO @ 25 - .58% (.09)

MAX NO @ 15 - 767 ppm (479)
MAX NO @ 25 - 706 ppm (477)

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

it varies on the software they're running, so far i've seen 3 different software 3 shops use

morganrush1974

he is right i'm a smog tech. They did lower the limits, and they are going to make it harder and harder. They even want us to buy the "new" machines with cameras so we can't "clean pipe" cars. If they catch us "clean piping" cars now they will throw the smog tech in jail, the B.A.R. just threw in 6 last month (something close to that) I'm thinking of registering my car out of state. Its getting that bad. Just think about whats going on next time you see one of those "green" movements its those people you are voting in all the crooks in sac. That's why i say VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE!!!! IF YOU DON'T VOTE YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO BITCH because it takes people (votes) to get the crooks out. You might think your vote wont count BUT if we can get others like "us" fords, mopars, and yes imports, we can ban together we CAN get rid of these crooks!

morganrush1974

Nope the numbers (limits) are set by the state there ARE different machines but the limits are set by the state. IF YOU WANT register your car in rural parts cali where they do "basic" smogs the limits are lower and they don't do dyno smogs. They still do the old "two speed idle" test. Look it up there are two kinds of smog "areas" in cali.

1BADDAM

According to their map there are three: Enhanced, Basic, and Change of Ownership.

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

for some reason i cant agree with u lol... i took my truck t a smog station it didn't pass b/c it didnt had a cat, i installed the cat and took it to another facility and it passed, o compared the two tests and they had different max limits and at the bottom of the page it said the software they were using and they were different software.

BUT u are a smog tech so i wont try to lecture u

morganrush1974

don't get me wrong I have seen some WEIRD stuff I have seen max limits change (same car on the same day!) The bastards don't give us the limits AFTER the 15/25 is over it does suck! What i hate is i got a $500 fine for telling someone (it was B.A.R.) that their M.I.L. (check eng. light) was on and it was going to fail ( i was trying to be nice and save them money and save my time) and for doing so i got a $500 fine because they said i have to run the car "as it came in". Funny thing is most people dont know is IF all smog techs followed the rules to the number a smog should take about 20-30 min EACH car so most of us "miss" somethings. I know how it feels i failed 8 cars on friday alone! I REALLY dont want to fail cars because i have to do a free retest and that's time i could be doing a passing car that pays! So next time don't bite the techs head off (unless he did f-up) blame it all on the b.a.r. , c.a.r.b. ..... they make it a nightmare for all of us (both customers & shop owners) , just ask any repair shop they will tell you or better yet ask a "gold shield station" ask what hoops they must jump through to get the state to pay them.

Guest

That is completely retarded. Leave it to our government to screw people over for doing someone a favor.

Just sitting here thinking about that and I would have sued the state. There is no benefit to the state for you telling someone that they're going to need a repair or else they're going to fail, because regardless of whether you told them or not the car would still need to be fixed to pass if thats what they decided to do. Only reason the state has to do something like that is to make fanfare of data.

camaromike222

I smell a revolt coming.

injdinjn

Thats because they want cars to fail, it pumps up their numbers that the program works. They probably have dozens of cars out they run thru stations constantly to push up the fail numbers.


Govt has two purposes, Make govt bigger, and make themselves look good no matter how useless they and their job is.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

The state may also think if these cars fail then there is a good chance the owner will buy another car and the state will get more tax revenue. If it was about "clean air" then all that should matter is what is coming out the tail pipe save leaking gasoline. This whole global warming issue with CO2 etc. has proven to be nothing but BS and a scam.

Guest

Thats very true, many of the reports they issue rely on failures to tout how wonderful and effective their program is. The BAR isn't really interested in clean running cars, the dirtier the better. For their statistics.

jrfidencio

iTrader: (1)

yes its true im a ase tech and thats the rules. it does suck alot **** i hate cali for it but **** it

jhp73

I say we all get together on a certain date and have a million car drive on the capital and when we get there all of us keep reving our engines until they fall to their knees and leave us alone.

morganrush1974

But you forgot something after we are done we all all over the front lawn!

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

lets do that but lets take the mufflers and cats off hahahahaha ooo but dont forget to take ur NIOSH approved respirators

jhp73

Sounds good I'm in lets figure out a date

The Devastator

Thank god I'm military and can register my car in Mississippi. I couldn't believe how the local government operates in this state. It should be abolished. You guys need to move or register your cars outta state. The way you guys are treated here if ridiculous. If this were my home state I would be violently angry over this stuff.

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

Former USMC here, now a military spouse. I've had my cars registered out of state since 02.

Don't think that you are safe because you are military and have out of state registration. The police will still harass you and coerce you into consenting to a warrant-less search for "illegal modifications".

I have been ticketed for out of state lic and reg.. Even though I beat the ticket it still doesn't make up for the waste of my time and the harassment.
I have a friend who was pulled over and detained for 45 minutes while they combed over his Z28 with a Mississippi plate, active duty military I.D. and base stickers. They told him they didn't care whether or not his registration was out of state, they wanted to look for "illegal" modifications" anyway. This happened basically right outside of the Camp Pendleton main gate in Oceanside. The cop's probable cause? "Your car smells funny" as in, it smells like it is polluting. Mind you this is a stock LS1 with an aps t.t. kit. Basically runs like a stocker at part throttle.

To add insult to injury, the cops were harassing this guy that had just gotten back from tour in Iraq training Iraqi police.

injdinjn

Too bad our military isn't allowed to open carry when off base.

If that's a constant thing in Oceanside, harassing military, the base should make Oceanside business off limits. All the base would have to do is make the announcement and the city fathers would be begging for mercy.

Its all about money, all govt agencies are broke and the easiest cash cow is the local citizens.

captain_camaro

aaawwwww maaaan....i gotta smog nex saturday..oh well

KiLLJ0Y

iTrader: (1)

well crap, glad im registered here in UT... funny thing is... most of the cops up here are car guys, hell half the city police just got new high performance unmarked cars..

they are now driving 3 black Challenger R/T's and 2 of the new Mustang GT's. Very cool policemen...i only see them pulling over the Subaru and STi crowd since they are so many of them here... Ive been pulled over, asked whats under the hood and how much power does it make, even before they ask me for "License and Registration"..

and a side plus.. we only have 2 counties in the state that require safety and emissions.. but even though i live on one of these counties.. i have whats called a Situs Address.. means my car is technically stored at a location in one of the other counties where emissions are not manditory.. perfectly legal to do as well.

The Devastator

This is ridiculous. I'd never believe this is how a police force would act if I hadn't seen it myself. I guess in a situation like that you just have to stick to your guns and tell them to go get a search warrant. I've found that the best thing to have in these kinds of situations is a memo pad and a pen. You just have to be patient, professional, and **** about writing down every detail that happens.

Diggler86

I dont think its under question at this point but I can also verify that the limits were indeed lowered from two years ago. I thought they looked lower so I went back and checked and sure enough. Had I failed would have been furious.

Good idea on the E83 anyway.

oscarfromla

iTrader: (9)

Man that sucks....I guess that was the only good thing about being stationed in upstate NY, cops were VERY lenient with Marines, and you know us, we abused that a lot.

I was planning a 350 or even 383 build on my IROC but now I'm considering a 4th gen LS1 (don't kill me) for this reason. Limits like these are a huge impediment for 3rd gen enthusiasts.

Duck

What are some other tricks one can use to temporarily lower emissions? The reason I ask is because it is apparent the govt isn't playing fair, so why should I?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"The reason I ask is because it is apparent the govt isn't playing fair, so why should I?"

My line of thinking as well.

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

one i know for a fact is running the car for 30min and have it running while ur waiting ur turn to be smogged, it makes a huuuge difference.

ringo234

because, like my mother always said, just because johnny jumped off the cliff is no reason for you to do the same.


JUST KIDDING

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

human nature my friend,

p8dnful

1 trick I was told is to run the engine as hot as you can without overheating.... The hotter the engine runs = the more emissions burned or Run the engine as lean as you can

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

I called that one first ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ lol

morganrush1974

I just received this from the B.A.R.
“New obd monitor limit
June 28. 2010
On July 6, 2010 BAR will switch the number for incomplete OBD readiness monitors from 2 to 1 on 2001 and newer model year vehicles. Model year 1996-2000 vehicles will still pass the OBDII inspection with no more than 2 incomplete monitors.”
What else can you say than the BAR is If they keep up at this rate they will get a revolt!!!!

injdinjn

The worst part is these people are appointed.

Right now I can only think of one way to get rid of them.

bungo78

iTrader: (1)

What is the legal way to have this fought.

What I mean by that is, for everyone to find a happy median... The boys up top continue the "Clean" process of smogging cars. Without the raining on the parade of people who have clean running older cars like ours???

I was told by my tech last year when I had the bird smogged that the numbers were going to be lower. I have a vapor leak and due to the new numbers I will most likely fail next year when due... I'm not looking to get around fixing my problem. I am planning on it this year. However to fix this issue and to still fail is rediculous if this is indeed a possibility

I believe there are enough folks out there for us to begin some form of "push" to get this started and possibly get some action going that benefits all

Any thoughts?

Adrian

injdinjn

These people are appointed, some by the governor.
The Feds set standards and if not met withhold funds, such as highway const funds, and other BS programs.
Areas such as LA, Vegas, Denver etc are in a hole and have a inversion layer, basically the wind blows over the top and keeps the ground produced air pollution in the basin.
With all the vehicles here, the largest shipping port in the world (boats, trucks, trains), and China's airborne $hit blowing here, there is no way we can meet the Federal standard let alone the lower one set by CA.
Since older cars are the least powerful we get the brunt of their laws. Doesn't matter that we are producing a minimal amount of pollution and even a 50% decrease probably can't be measured they will continue to pick on old cars. Of course, those of low income that have polluting cars get paid by the State to fix it or buy and better car.
SEMA has helped us in the past, but this is just BS legislation that only needs CARB/AQMD board approval, from idiots to make themselves look like they are doing something good. And it does force people to upgrade to a newer vehicle resulting in higher license fees and sales tax revenue.
Whats unfair is the changing of the pass/fail limits. Take the LG4s with a carb, it's now required to limit a pollutant that it was never designed to control. They are systematically eliminating older cars.

If you think this is bad, wait for Obomba to pass his CAP & TRADE bill. Buy your bicycles now.

1BADDAM

Fresh oil, new plugs (I cut the back the ground electrode to unshroud the center electode, .005" overgapped), new O2 sensor, 87 octane (burns faster) in the tank. I tried the E85 thing, worked for me - some throw in denatured alcohol, fresh cat, disconnect the low and hi speed fan(relay).

I have a smog chip that leaves the fans off (keeps the car at 205*) and locks the torque convertor on the dyno (25 mph test) which loads the motor - reducing emmisions, but twice the smog guy freaked and f'ed up the 25 mph test - which causes you to do it all over again .