Darth Mole

Hi guys,

I have a urgent question and need your opinions...

A friend of mine has done my a favor and removed my bushings from the front suspension arms because I want to give them to the sandblaster tomorrow. It has been a long and tough job, but I noticed there are a few small cuts, not too deep, in the suspension arm, please see the pictures below.

Can I still use these suspension arms or do I have to throw them in the garbage bin? I am just a bit worried about cracks during operation...

Thanks a lot and best regards from Germany!

Marcel

G-Performance

Should be ok but i would maybe hit it with a welder.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

I would not run that. It's a stress concentrator at the worst possible place.

Doesn't make much sense to replace bushings in those weeeenie stock LCAs (or otherwise waste money and effort on them) anyway; you can flex those tinfoil things with your bare hands. Very weak.

I STRONGLY recommend throwing them in the trash and getting something else. I have Lakewoods http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lak-20140/overview/ on my car, FAR better than stock, probably for less money than getting that garbage powdercoated. Several of the sponsors of this board (UMI, Founders, Spohn, maybe others) also make them, probably in the same general price range.

Here in the US we have an expression for spending money or effort on something that doesn't deserve it in the first place and that no matter how much money you spend on it or effort you put into it, it doesn't make it any better. We call it "putting lipstick on a pig". Those things in your hands are just such a pig.

Darth Mole

Thanks a lot for the replies! I will talk to my welder tomorrow, maybe he can help me out with that...

I just want to mention that we are talking about the front suspension arms - seems I was a bit "lost in translation", sorry for that! I edited the post above.

For the rear, I will go with the LCAs made by Spohn Performance... If there is something similar for the front parts, I would definitely check that out...

Best regards,

Marcel

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Also note that the end link hole has egged out.

JamesC

tvc 15

Those are cut marks from the sawsall.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

I'd try to find other ones.

The same front control arms fit A BUNCH of vehicles; not sure which, but likely candidates are S trucks, Monte Carlo / Malibu / Grand Prix etc., all of which have front suspensions of very similar design. Here in the US, when we go to the junkyard and ask for a pair of them, they ALWAYS have several of them sitting on the shelf, even if there's not a single Camaro or Firebird on the lot, so they're clearly getting them from somewhere else.

THINK about what would happen if your control arm broke at the spot it's been damaged, while driving down the highway: what direction do you suppose the car would go? ....

I can't predict that either.

Makes my skin crawl just thinking about driving with ... THAT .... as what I'm depending on for my LIFE and the lives of all the people around me.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Here's some general info that might prove useful:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...s-created.html

JamesC

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

It's important to remember the direction that the bushings were originally installed. The bushings are more easily removed with a bushing kit similar to the link below. If you get a kit that does not fit, you can try various large sockets etc. You need a smaller tool to get in-between the a-arms vs. a large press which most people try to use. If you cut, then cut up to and be very careful to try to score it and pull apart etc.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...-Tool/_/N-26rb

Here it appears that they are using common clamps to get it done (found during search for above):
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/125401.html

Can also try searching this forum for other ideas for bushing removal/install as well.

I had a problem with after-market bushings not fitting correctly. There was an offset of 1/4” on each side and no amount of adjusting would allow them to fit. If I rememberer correctly, this was an issue with Energy Suspension. I received a set that was already powder coated with new bushings and was told that they are Prothane bushings.

Best bet imo is to try to find a relatively low mileage car being parted out where you can see pics that it wasn't in an accident. Or at least buying outright with decent pics of the a-arms.
Good info on the link about the differences in the a-arms especially when looking to purchase. Not everyone knows about the difference in the size of the bushings.
I might have a set packed away and can look for them if interested. IIRC, from a later model that I picked up for the spindles.

Darth Mole

Thanks a lot for all your input!

I took the decision to throw the parts away. sofakingdom is absolutely right, my life and the life of the people around the car depends on these parts, I don't want to take any unneeded risks.

By the way: I did not even noticed the egged end link hole before, I didn't know that this is a weak point on our cars. Thanks a lot for this advice!

Those were parts that were laying around in my garage for years - just wanted to get them done to save time. I hope the ones mounted on the car are a way better. I will try to get the right bushing removal tool or just let them remove in a shop to avoid this damage in the future.

Thanks a lot guys!

Marcel

SlickTrackGod

Those arms are perfectly fine to use. Like someone else here stated, they are simple marrs from the sawzall from removal of the old bushings. THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME people!!!They are fine. There is plenty of extra material and the way the force is applied they will never break.

There went two perfectly good arms in the trash because of inexperienced advice.

To add to this, the bushings are actually METAl inserts themselves with rubber inside that metal sleeve. That sleeve distributes the load in a radius and not directly into a so called crack in the radius. The sleeve itself would have to crack also for bolt to direct force to get that cut to split wide open...not going to happen.

Beside all of this, what is so hard about simply inserting the bushings then turning over the arms and hitting a few little tack welds onto the bushing sleeves like are VERY COMMONLY done when you install new bushings in old arms. This is a standard practice to tack welds so the bushing does not come out of an older fatigued arm bore.

F*uck people, I would far rather trust a slightly cut arm with a properly tack welded replacement bushing then one of you installing new bushings on an old arm without welds. You guys need to get your priorities in check and learn proper facts.

SlickTrackGod

Here is a shot of my arms I did years ago. Not only did I tack the new bushings into olace, I welded reinforcement brackets along the ear span so as the prevent collapsing of the mount distance so the bushings retain solid and the arm does not flex under push/pull opposite loads the two bushing areas constantly encounter. I also as you see braced the area of the ball joint so it does not twist flex under hard cornering load/ and especially braking forces.

Get those arms out of the trash and duplicate this. They are perfectly good arms to use.

SlickTrackGod

Matter of fact I just did this a few months ago to my Mercedes A-arms when I replaced those bushings. I drilled a few holes into the old bushing bfore I pressed them out, then once I pressed the new ones in I tack welded the new bushings soild into place through those holes using them like spot welds so they do not ever rotate of slip out one side and misalign or rub with unwanted friction.

I do not have pics of the holes, but here is pics of me pressing out and in the new offset bushings. it is very standard practice to weld new bushing into place when they are not original installs into virgin cylinders.

Darth Mole

Thanks a lot for all your different opinions and replies! Seems that this is a controversial question...

OK, I just wanted to get sure that these sawzall marks don't threaten the stability of the front suspension arms. I definitely don't think they will, because there is plenty of material around them, but I am unsure about cracks which could occur from these marks.

I will not thrown the suspension arms away. Instead, I will take a look at the original ones in a few weeks. I will remove the bushings by myself, with all the necessary caution, and if anything goes wrong with that arms, too - I have a backup. I talked to a friend of mine who would weld and grind the marks - and he will also tack the new bushings, too.

@SlickTrackGod: Your reinforcement looks great - I will try to duplicate this! Thanks for the input!

Best regards,

Marcel

SlickTrackGod

I would suggest welding the bushing support plates in place prior to removing the old bushings. 1) the heat will ruin new bushings, and 2) you want to keep the proper shape and spacing of each bushing cup when heating, pressing, etc etc whatever means you take to get those things out. I cut bushings lateral with a sawzall prior to pressing. them out to help relieve pressure.

The balljoint support only needs to be that small and only boxed between the spring cup and outer walls of balljoint socket. No braces are needed between the spring cup and the mount bushings. The spring holds the force so that little section between the balljoint and cup is what can flex changing alignment geometry under hard dynamic loads.