RyanSS

I have a TPI system(runners, plemun, base, ECM, wiring, some sensors) laying around and I can trade it and $600 for a freshly rebuilt L98 long block. Does this sound like a good deal? I would use a performer or RPM manifold and stock(for now) TBI unit. I will eventually swap the heads and cam for better ones. Would this make ok power?


My second option is to trade the TPI for a shortblock then add aftermarket heads and a cam. Any recommendations on which heads and cam? I want a cam with good idle vacuum-- I was thinking either LT4 hot cam or bigger.
For heads I was thinking vortecs(on a budget). I want to run 12's at least with good gas mileage. I might supercharge later on, but it will be a couple years.

I don't really have a place to store a partially built engine and keep it clean for very long (sucks!), so whatever I do I would have to assemble and install the motor pretty soon after I get it.

I really need some help with this, it's so hard to decide upon one thing.

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89 RS parts car

Daily driver 91 RS auto LO3 63k

New project- 89 Formula 350 WS6
383 or 400 to come!

HrdRockA4305

I'm sure the TBI guys aren't gonna like me for saying this, but it would be SOOO much less hassel to just put a carb on it. I mean think, you'd need the full wiring harness and computer and everything hooked up to go TBI which would give you less power if all other things on the engine are identical assuming good tune. You'd need to spend hours/days chip burning to get any power out of the TBI setup, it'd just be so much more hassel. But hey, thats just lazy me speaking, and i'm sure people are gonna drill me about this... Im not trying to be a jerk or anything (I mean it is the TBI section of the board) really but hey you guys have every bit as much right to disagree with me as i have to post my opinion

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88 Camaro (The mighty LO3 SC!)
305TBI/700R4/2.73/123,XXX miles
14" Open Element and Flowmaster 80 seires

Next up: headers and gears

RyanSS

Oh, that was stupid of me, I forgot to mention what kind of car this is going into. It is the 91 RS in the sig, it has open element and cat-back delete. It has an LO3 in it at the moment, which is already TBI. It may be easier to switch to a carb, but EFI is the way of the future and I am determined to learn.

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89 RS parts car

Daily driver 91 RS auto LO3 63k

New project- 89 Formula 350 WS6
383 or 400 to come!

HrdRockA4305

Hey, if your not afraid of the chip tuning, which everyone says isn't really all that bad, why not? Its not that TBI itself sucks, its the LO3 engine that happens to be under it. Sounds like a cool project, I'd like to see how it turns out. Its been done before with good results.

RyanSS

I have pretty much decided to get the short block & build it up.

What duration at .050" do cams start to give bad gas mileage(17mpg&below), and require a vacuum canister for power accessories?
Also what lift?

What are some good flowing heads for under $800 or so?
I was thinking some kind of votecs or dart iron eagles.


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89 RS parts car

Daily driver 91 RS auto LO3 63k

New project- 89 Formula 350 WS6
383 or 400 to come!

RyanSS

ttt

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89 RS parts car

Daily driver 91 RS auto LO3 63k

New project- 89 Formula 350 WS6
383 or 400 to come!

JRoy91RS

See my sig for my mods. The cam I have works great and provides plenty of lift. Still have some fine tuning to do, but the cam is very streetable. I'll try to get you the full specs


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91RS convertible 355 TBI 65# inj. custom compcam grind .480/.480, Edelbrock TBI manifold, open element, hedman hedders, Y-pipe, cheap cherry bomb muffler, Hypertech cop car thermomaster, Accel coil, wires. 2.02/1.6 cast iron heads. Engine specially made by Pflugerville machine shop. Forged bottom end, balanced. Coming soon: Vacuum controlled FPR, better exhaust, Torque converter, DIY PROM, bigger TB.

JRoy91RS

By the way, you're going to have to be burning chips to get in the 12's and get good gas milage. Expect to spend a lot of time doing so. This is very difficult to obtain on TBI. If you were going with a superram on a TPI, it might be more feasible. But at the expense of much more money. I tried a TPI swap at first. An 87 TPI didn't work too well for my car and I had lots of problems (which weren't necessarily related or caused by the TPI system itself). I thought about carb, too just for the raw power, but my Camaro is the only car I own, so I would be compromising both driveability and gas milage. I chose TBI because it was a good compromise between carb and TPI. Every time I turn the key, the engine fires, regardless of weather or altitude, and if I want to go faster or run more effeciently, it won't break me like TPI ($400 for a decent intake?!?!). Plus I don't have to worry about adpating a TBI car to accept TPI components. I can also keep the same type of distributor and transmission that came with the car, which I wouldn't be able to do with carb without serious modifications.

Here's how I think of the Carb vs. TBI vs. TPI debate. I realize this is oversimplifying the advantadges/
disadvantadges of each, but this is a good guide:

If you want to go fast quickly and easily (and cheap), get great throttle response and awesome power throughout the entire RPM range of your engine, but don't care too much about driveability in varying conditions without tuning or gas milage, go (non-computer controlled) carb.

If cost is not an issue, and you want to go fast, maintain driveability, and get superior gas mileage, and are concerned mostly with making power below 5K RPM's go TPI and learn to burn chips. (I also think TPI looks the coolest!)

If you want to make decent power above 5K RPMS , but don't have a lot of money and want to maintain driveability and decent gas mileage, and don't mind a little trial and error with varying combinations of air/fuel delivery components (which includes everything from the fuel pump to the throttle body) to achieve optimum performance, go TBI AND learn to burn chips.

I haven't learned to burn chips yet, but the vacuum adjustable FPR seems very promising for people in the same boat that I am. Sort of a band-aid until I learn to tune the fuel curve. Hope this helps. Sorry this is so long, but I think others will benefit from my deconstruction of a debate which crosses over several boards on this site. I hope others will add to the points I've made here to help others out.

Tas

The weiand 7525 intake would kick *** on a L98 and 670 TBI. Shane B. was in mid-low 13s on a vortec 350 with TBI on the Torqer 2 intake. The bigger Weiand 7525 single plane would be even better. It has EGR too if you need/want it.

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-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6

305, TBI, auto, 14x3 chrome flat based open element with K&N, Milodon 160* thermo, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips....

To be installed eventually far far far into the future: Yours if the price is right and I don't have to ship :
Hooker 1-5/8" 50 state legal headers, Dynomax 3" I pipe (PN 44063 and 43248), Catco 3" cat, and injector spacer.

Super GRK_Taz World
F-Body Dual Exaust
EFI & Intake Options
AOL IM: superGRtaz

RyanSS

Thanks for the replies. I have been pouring through the archives looking for advice on a cam that will work well with what I want. Everything I come across is either about TPI or an LO3. I have learned that anything less than 112 LSA on TPI is a b*tch to get to run right, is this true on TBI? Also, I wan to pick the right cam the first time. I was thinking about a cam with around 224-230 duration and maybe around .500" lift. Used with a set of GMPP Fast Burn heads. How would this work? I don't have a whole lot of time to dedicate to chip burning, so my learning will probably go slowly.
I am trying to decide if I should just get the L98 long block and then learn to tune it slowly so I can get good at chip burning, then do a cam and head swap to get the car where I want it(more expensive). Or just build up the shortblock and tune the bad*ss motor that results as best I can(cheaper).
I am not the richest person in the world so I am inclined to go with the cheaper option, but I also need my car to run well in the least amount of time.

I guess I can't have my cake and eat it too.


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89 RS parts car

Daily driver 91 RS auto LO3 63k

New project- 89 Formula 350 WS6
383 or 400 to come!

RyanSS

I just remembered and re-read the post on the tid vacuum afpr. Would this provide enough of a band aid until I really get the hang of chip burning?



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89 RS parts car

Daily driver 91 RS auto LO3 63k

New project- 89 Formula 350 WS6
383 or 400 to come!

JRoy91RS

Ryan, here is a link to my cam specs:
http://www.compcams.com/base/process...asp?Known=264h
Mine is grind number CS 264h-r12. It works great! Very good yet streetable cam.
The compcams site is awesome!! If you don't find something you like there, they will custom grind you a cam. Like I said in my last post, I think the vacuum AFPR is awesome for TBI cars. That will be my next mod along with a stock Caprice cop chip. Hypertech is crap. Good luck!

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91RS convertible 355 TBI 65# inj. custom compcam grind .480/.480, Edelbrock TBI manifold, open element, hedman hedders, Y-pipe, cheap cherry bomb muffler, Hypertech cop car thermomaster, Accel coil, wires. 2.02/1.6 cast iron heads. Engine specially made by Pflugerville machine shop. Forged bottom end, balanced. Coming soon: Vacuum controlled FPR, better exhaust, Torque converter, DIY PROM, bigger TB.

RyanSS

Hey Jroy, what kinda gas mileage do you get ?
Got any track times with that combo?

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89 RS parts car
Daily driver 91 RS auto LO3 70k, 14x3 K&N Open element, cat-back delete.
Coming soon: 350, headers, loudmouth exhaust.

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

LT4 Hot cam
Vortec heads
Victor Jr single plane

415 hp or so
will need some big injectors, another regulator to bring the pressure up too be it external or the GM version

too easy
oh youll need to burn chips. Which is no harder than burning chips for TPI in my opinion and I can do both(sorry to dispell that myth)
3.42 or higher gears too

it should be brutal, in fact its so brutal its what i plan on building next

RyanSS

I was thinking of going with the Fastburn aluminum heads and the hot cam. Should I go with the fastburn's or save some money and go with some iron vortec's?
I was kinda wanting to go with the fastburn's so I can upgrade the cam later.
I just bought desktop dyno so I'm gonna play around with different combinations.

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89 RS parts car
Daily driver 91 RS auto LO3 70k, 14x3 K&N Open element, cat-back delete.
Coming soon: 350, headers, loudmouth exhaust.