Corry

Well, before I get a flame, the car came w/ the shifter, and didn't come with a stock one to put back in! (Or a hurst shifter for that matter)
Short description of the problem, starter doesn't crank (can you see where this is going?
Long description Starter never gets engaged. Turn key, Lights/non essential electrical goes off, then nothing. I figured my starter shouldn't be the issue here....I imagine they die slowly and painfully, not just all of the sudden, so I started checking my neutral safety switch....only to find it's broke, shorted. Now here's where things get fuzzy for me. I know that this means I should have never been locked out of starting it. I believe that there should be a 12 volt input, and an output that drives a relay, switched by the little microswitch on the shifter. Like I said I'm a little fuxxy about this. I checked voltages for both wires on the switch, both were negligible when the key was turned to the run position. I tried feeding them 12V from the reverse light wire, still no start...Now I might guess that this is because whatever circuitry this switch controls was never meant to have 12V flowing through it constantly. I have no idea when the switch broke, but from the slow starts I would guess about 5 days ago (slow because of the 12V drain) So this system had been energized for maybe 3 and a half days straight. I really don't think it was made to take that kind of abuse....problem is, I have no idea where to even begin to look! I can't imagine why I have no cource voltage, unless the operation of the system is totaly different from what I think it is. Any ideas? What could be fried?

Mark A Shields

I didn't use any fuse or switch that they said to use, neither have a couple others. And no problems for me so far (8 months or so).

Corry

you had to have done something, whether it was short the wires togather, or something. The problem is that this car should be named murphy....in fact, I think I will now call it murf for shor from now on, because anything that can go wrong *WILL* go wrong. BTW does your state have inspections? Do the mechanics care? Because without either of those switches, the reverse lights dont work....

Mark A Shields

My Dad did most of the install, and I guess that's why the reverse lights don't work.

Corry

ROFLMAO!!!! Oh well, stupid car won't freakin start....normally when computers don't start I first try and Jedi Mind trick them.....unfortunatly most of them are immune to that, so with a serious face, and a stern voice, I look at the machine and say, "If you don't boot, I'm gonna take you out to the parking lot and drop kick you! Got it?!" I do this in a very convincing manor....and usually the machines start right up....I tried the above procedure on my car.....I swear I heard it laugh at me and say go ahaead and try to drop kick me :P So I'm back the aquare one, what could be fried in here?

Vader

It was probably not laughing, but saying "Your Jedi mind tricks won't work on me, boy..."

I'll invoke the "Dark Side" and dig through some schematics to try to find the correct operation of the interlock for you.

Corry

:hail: Once again vader, I am sure I will owe you the driveability of my car

It was probably saying that about the jedi mind trick, but the threat I made of drop kicking it.....it probably laughed

TomP

You can call B&M, too. Their tech line should be up on their webpage, http://www.bmracing.com. In fact, they might have the installation directions for the megashifter on line; I know they have some of the shift kit instructions up there. I installed mine, back in.. uh.. 97, and no problems... I used the B&M cable, and wired up the Radio Shack relay, just as the directions asked.

Look for any fuses blown underneath the dash...

Are you SURE it's not the starter or the electrical system? The neutral safety switch is, I belive, just engaged to let the car start. You said...

...now, if you think about it, I can go on vacation for a week, and leave my car in Park or Neutral. Isn't that the same as having "12V flowing through it constantly"? If your neutral start switch was shorted, nothing would change; you can leave a car for a long time in neutral, and it'll still start.

Plus, you said "from the slow starts"- I'd check your battery for 12 volts, and then check the starter. I think the only problem with the Megashifter is the busted switch- which would've let you crank the engine while you were in gear.

Also, as a side note, with the relay properly wired in, or, with GM's original wiring- when the car is in park or neutral, the idle is lowered. This is because when the car is put into drive, and the brake held, the computer raises the idle a bit so the car doesn't stall. With the addition of the relay (or just by using the example of an original GM shifter), when the park/neutral start switch is closed, the RPM's drop. So, this means, your car might've been idling lower than it should've been while your trans was in gear and you were stopped at a light. I still don't see any cause for damage... it's gotta be the battery/alternator/starter.

Corry

Hmmmm, you know, you're right, I had myself thinking bass ackwards ...so I guess I need to know the flow of current. Obviously the switch switches something, there there could be juice at one of the wires at some point! I didn't check when the key is in crank, I suppose I'll try that...maybe even try and get out there in a few and check it...

Corry

Alright, so I went out there, checked for voltage on crank...it was there so the safety system is not at fault.....Originally I thought weak battery, so I tried jumping it....no go...hmmm didn't check the water in the battery, but that should be fine...does this sound like a starter solenoid problem? Since the starter motor never turns, what would the solenoid sound like if it were being energized? I get 2 clicks, one that sounds like it is on the drivers side, then another shortly after that sounds like its on the passanger side. If you need any other info, I'd be happy to run out there and check

CAMp3RO

oh, and if you wanna get rid of the shifter, i'll trade ya the stock one and take that b&m off your hands....

Corry

I've actually invested too much into the B&M...not to mention I can't get the handle off it (I trifle too much loctite ) Anyways, I need my car to start! it's a useless piece of trash right now! LOL (Yes, I hope it hears me!) hehe

82camaro

Try a known good battery from another car, or replace it with a new one. It can be difficult to jump start a car if the battery is really bad. Still no start--verify the cables are OK. If the cables are OK try a new starter.

TomP

Hitch a ride to the local "chain-type" auto parts store. Buy a $10 "remote starter switch", it's a trigger-style switch with two alligator clips at the end. Go back to the car, remove the coil wire so the thing doesn't fire up, and keep the key off.

Carefully (so you don't short any wires/terminals out), connect one clip to the B+ terminal of the starter solenoid. Connect the other clip to a positive battery source. The big terminal on the starter's a good spot, but if the aligator clips lean against each other, you'll get a nice spark (and maybe the engine will start cranking). I usually go to the + terminal of the alternator.

Anyway, press the remote starter switch when you're clear of the fanbelts. If the remote switch turns the starter, you know you've got a problem with something other than the starter. If the starter doesn't spin...

I posted something similar to the guy who said "$100 to anyone who fixes my problem".

In fact, if you pull the starter, you can test it yourself, on the ground, with a set of jumper cables. Clip the + jumper to the big solenoid terminal, the - jumper to the case. Then rig up your remote starter switch, hook the cables to the battery, put your boot on the starter (so it doesn't run away!), and press the switch.

Corry

The problem is getting to the starter solenoid. I live in an apt complex...and they don't appreciate jacks/jack stands. I couldn't even see the solenoid...probably because I dunno what I am looking for, but if it has to be accessed from uder the car, I'm pretty much screwed in that respect. The reason I want to narrow the problem down, is well, almost every time I take the car somewhere, they try and rip me off! One shop says oh, and you need this too! Take it for a second opinion, they say nope thats fine, but you need something else! ... endless cycle. So basically I just want to tow the thing in w/ a part and say, "Put this in. Don't do anything else, don't even look at anything else. k?" Usually they respect that, and just do the work asked for. While I might be putting myself at risk should there be an actual problem that they would have seen, I don't like the wild goose chases I was thrown on. The first time, I started pulling parts myself and checking if they were indeed bad.

As for the battery, the battery is a year and a half old. I am 99.99999999999% sure it's not the problem....I will check it's water level anyways later...

As for pulling the starter, that I know I can't do at these apts, so I am pretty much screwed in that respect.

Corry

hmmmm vader mentioned something about fusible links and not having the juice to start a motor in another thread....where are these fusible links located....I'd really hate to have this thing towed to a shop to have them fix a fusible link that was easily accessible....

TomP

If you pick up the Haynes 82-92 Firebird book, I'm pretty sure it has a picture of a starter/solenoid inside. Can't tell ya much more if you're not allowed to work on the car...

Corry

I can work top end....if it involves going underneath, they will have a problem. They just don't want the car jacked up for "insurance reasons" I am sure that is a valid reason though, so....

All I really want is to know if it is rerally the starter. Based on the symptoms described...and what I can reach...I'll try and se if I can't reach the solenoid post tomorrow or saturday....

spartyon

u can go from the top to get to the solenoid. just unhook the battery so there is no charges going through get yourself a lil kid and stuff his body in their then go in between the number 2 cylinder header tube and the block right above the engine mounts. you can reach the solenoid. hell u can probly even do it youself. if u get a kid to do then just reward them with some ice cream, we/they love that kinda stuff!