NTChrist

Hi,
I've posted this over on the Electronics board, and even though it's been up for a few hours, I'm the only one to have even VIEWED it. I figured it might get more of a response here.


My '89 Firebird hasn't moved from it's spot on the driveway in over a year.
During that time, I have lost the ignition and door keys. I've got the door key re-cut, but the ignition is giving me a little trouble.
I bought a replacement ignition lock cylinder from Advance Auto Parts, that came with a key. The replacement lock cylinder has the correct wiring pigtail on it (that long bright orange wire), but the key has no resistor in it. It's just a plain brass key.
It was listed for an '89, so I'm hoping that the parts computer knows that '89 was the first year for VATS.
I made sure that the part was returnable, and left the store, $50 poorer.
My car will not start now, after installing the lock cylinder. I still have the steering wheel off, but I believe that everything necessary to get the car running is plugged in, including the bright orange pigtail.
I'm recharging the battery (it was disconnected over the car's sleeping period of a year and a half) to be sure that I have a proper charge, but I'm thinking that it's because of the lock cylinder, as I don't hear the sound of the pump priming or the sound of the starter ticking.

Where can I buy a lock cylinder that is VATS compatible? Anybody have a part number so I don't have to smack the parts boy in the head to get the right part?

Anybody else ever done the same job/had the same problem?

Is it another unrelated problem, and I have the right part?

Thanks lots for your help!

NTChrist

This may be completely unrelated to the problem up above, but now as my car is charging, I can hear something electric working in the vicinity of the hatch motor, in the rear. The hatch motor works properly, tho. Maybe a little slow from the low current, but that's to be expected.
Just in case!
Thanks!

NTChrist

OK, update #3.
The battery is not getting much more of a charge than before I hooked up the charger.
HERE IS THE WEIRD PART:
When the doors are closed (and I'm inside the car), I can hear the buzzing from the rear of the car pretty well. It buzzes for about 8 seconds, and stops. At the exact moment it stops, my CD player (an aftermarket Kenwood head unit, installed a long time ago, works fine with no known wiring problems) starts to eject an imaginary CD. At least that's what it sounds like. The grunting from the CD player happens for also about 8 seconds, stops, and then the buzzing from the back starts again.
This loop happens seemingly forever.

I've tried whacking the console, and wiggling wires underneath the dash, to no avail.

With the key in "Accesory" mode the electrics (like the interior lights, and the idiot lights in the dash) all die when the buzzing noise starts from the rear of the car. As soon as the buzzing noise stops, and the CD player starts ejecting, the electrics start to work. They are still dim, tho. The idiot lights are barely visible, and the dome light is equally as dim.

The car had no known wiring problems before it sat. Is this all related to my ignition cylinder problem?
ANY opinions are welcome, I'm going nuts here guys.

NTChrist

Update #4:
Sorry this is getting to be quite the read, but I want to give you guys as much info as possible. Nothing like trying to diagnose a wiring problem with no info.

Tonight, I disconnected the battery charger before closing up the car for the night.
The buzzing and CD ejecting stopped, but nothing else is working now, either.
No dome light, no buzzer, nothing.

As usual, I'm open to any suggestions!

Guest

No, you have the wrong part. You'll either need the right lock cylinder and key (my suggestion) or you'll have to bypass the VATS (which you are on your own to figure out). I cant help on getting the right part, I never even tried to find a lock cylinder on a VATS equipped car... might be a dealer only thing?

NTChrist

I will call a dealer monday morning.
I'm guessing they won't be cheap, tho!
Thanks, madmax. Anybody have any theories on the buzzing, CD player problem?

Vader

NTC,

Some of your other mysterious electrical problems may be due to the battery charger itself. If there is a marginal rectifier in teh battery charger, your system may be exposed to AC voltage while the charger is operating. That could explain some of the "buzzing" noises from loads which are normally powered by DC, the "confusion" of the CD player, etc. Once the battery is fully charged, turn off /disconnect the charger, than try the systems again.

The lock cylinder may have to be acquired from a real parts store or the dealership parts counter. Pepe Le Boys, Ought-Tow-Zone, etc., don't qualify as either.

NTChrist

Thanks for the advice, Vader.
My battery charger is ancient, so that may be the problem.
I price out new chargers when I go to return my lock cylinder.
Thanks guys!

NTChrist

My father confirmed that the charger was at fault. I was telling him the whole story, and when I got to the part about charging the battery, he stopped me, and told me that the rectifier was gone on that particular charger. Aparently he had tested it years ago, and found that it was putting out only AC. Vader, you are a genius.

One last question, Dad warned that the AC could have damaged my ECM. Is this a possibility? The car was on the charger for about 4 hours, aparently getting AC the whole time.

89RJcamaroRS

u have the right cylinder. the keys that come with it dont come with a chip because there are like 14 diff. values. u r suppose to take the key supplied with the cylinder to a locksmith and cut on a gm vats key. without knowin the value ur pretty much srewed. u can always bypass the vats. i had to do this to my car because when i switch out my 2.8 for my current motor i took out all the v6 wirin. along with the comp. so the vats wouldnt engage the relay in the drivers kick panel. all i did was ground out the green wire on the relay. and there u go the vats no longer existed

Guest

Sounds right. I just reread the first post, he said the pigtail matched fine. I'd think the vats and non-vats are different so that makes sense that you'd have to get the key cut from the one they gave ya.

NTChrist

Unfortunatly, I've already returned the parts store lock cylinder.
I still have my old one, and it was functioning properly, but of course the key is gone.
I will talk to a locksmiths about replacement keys. Lock cylinder or no lock cylinder.
Thanks!

LottaBallsCamaro

I had to replace my lock cylinder in my 91 RS, but I had the original key. The replacement cylinder comes with that brass key for you to take to the dealer or a locksmith to get a VATS key cut with it, and the VATS key is like $40. But I guess this is pretty irrelevant since you already took the lock cylinder back.

Vader

If I were such a freakkin' genius, I wouldn't keep spelling "THE" half-backwards "TEH". I guess my fingers aren't that well connected, or I have some really bad keyboarding habits.

As for your ECM, they are a really rugged device, as electronics go. The Delco Electronics guys really overbuilt them, with protections against overvoltage, undervoltage, shorted loads, and even AC voltage incursions from failing alternators (or errant battery chargers). There is a slight risk that the AC may have corrupted the BLM tables in the active RAM, but if you disconnect the battery for about ten minutes to completely clear the ECM "learned" data in RAM, you should be fine. Start up may be a little different, since the ECM will have to create new data tables - a process that can take several days of driving.

On replacement ignition keys, if you're paying more than $7 for a VATS key, you're paying too much. Reputable locksmiths around here charge that much for the blank and the cutting. Cutting from a key code might cost you a couple bucks more, but $40 is ridiculous.