TomP

Hey weldors, got a question for ya... I'm going to replace my quarter panel soon, and right now, I've got one of those flip-up helmets. That was fine, but now I'm about to weld on my car- I want to be able to see. I'm looking at the auto-dim helmets by Hobart, they dim in 1/11,000th of a second. But another company, Morsafe, sells a helmet that dims in 1/25,000th of a second. I'll be using these for MIG welding, which helmet would you buy? What's safer? You can adjust the shade on both, so that's not an issue. Also, I don't flip these up, right? Do they cover more of the back of my head? That's one of the problems I have with my flip-up helmet- it lets light in through the back, which gives me a "mirror" effect on my lens from the inside.

Here's the Hobart, for $190: http://www.northerntool.com/cgi-bin/...1&prmenbr=6970

Here's the Morsafe, for $220: http://www.northerntool.com/cgi-bin/...9&prmenbr=6970

Now, I've heard of Hobart, but not Morsafe. Then again, I'm not a professional weldor, and might just be ignorant! But I'd trust Hobart more... so which would you get? I don't want to burn my eyes out because I bought a bad helmet.

And I was going to get the unpainted, boring, all-black Hobart helmet, should I get the one with flames? Hehe, I think I'll feel like a dork, though... but it's definately "hot-roddish", haha! But I'm more concerned about my eyes... after all, if I can't see, I can't drive!

ede

the quicker the better, but i've never used one whree i could really tell ,all worked great. got dark before i saw any flash. one thing you might want to watch for if others are welding around you is tripping your helmet to dark when they weld. personally i don't like them and have limited experience in them, but most of my welding is done i na resperator with a lens attachment.

racerx004

I'm a pipefitter/welder by trade and have seen a few auto shades.
Mine flashes in 1/25,000 of a second.
The other welders I talked to siad it isn't really noticible.
I think if your not doing welding day in and day out 8 hours a day,
then the hobart should be fine.
But If you weld alot, then I would go with a faster lens.
Others have said they notice a differenceover a long period of time.
Since you already owen a hood, you could probably save a few bucks by just getting an insert lens for your existing hood.
I have never heard of morsafe myself so I don't know how dependable there stuff is.
I went with huntsmen when I bouhgt mine.
You could also go down to the local welding store and ask there opinions. They may be able to give you some better advice and maybe offer you something a little better.
You also don't have to flip these up, they should just stay stationary.
As for light getting in through the back, what kind of hood do you have?
Most of your standard hoods, cover back past your ears and do a good job, but get at the wrong angle or have too much light behind you, or light shining directly at you and will get the mirror affect no matter what hood you use.
Hope this helps, anymore questions feel free to ask.

TomP

Thanks for the replies, guys! (And cool to know there's another pro welder here, Racerx!) Ede, remember any of the names of those helmets? I'm guessing tho if you tried a few then some of them must've had the "time" of the Hobart ones. My main concern was winding up blind because I didn't get a "faster" helmet. I don't really have to worry about other welders, since it'll be me, by myself, in my garage, but that's cool- I never would've thought of other welder's arc's turning my helmet "on".

Racerx, yeah, I won't be welding that constantly. My welding so far has been goofing around with brackets and small pieces (a creeper, a frame for a hydraulic pipe bender, etc). I welded up some slide hammer holes on a friend's car, and doing my 1/4 panel will probably be my longest job- and that'll just be doing a ton of spot welds, and checking/rechecking the alignment of the whole damn thing. Good idea about asking the local welding store, they're pricey, but that doesn't mean I have to get the helmet there. Plus, northern is offering "spend $250, get 6 months payments, interest free". I'm sure I can find another $70 to spend.

My helmet now is by Lincoln Electric, a cheap little $25 helmet. I thought about just getting a replacement lens for my current hood, but I'm hoping to get a better quality hood. When I did my friend's door, I couldn't see the holes (used to laying beads, not filling holes). I bought one of those dual 1000 watt tripod lights, thinking it would help- it hurt more than help. Like you said, if I tilted it the wrong way, I couldn't see thru the lens. Hopefully I can eliminate all that with the auto dim helmet! Most of my time on those damn doors (a deer ran into the side of his car) was trying to "see".

I couldn't find a website for huntsmen, bummer. But if your friends say it only matters for long periods of time, I'll go with the Hobart. Here's something strange; Hobart's website says 1/11,000th second. Miller's website at http://www.millerwelds.com/weldinghelmets/ says 1/16,000th of a second! I thought Miller & Hobart were two different companies, why is Miller selling Hobart's helmets? Odd. Everything I've seen so far says the helmets are 1/11,000th... maybe miller's site is wrong. I sent them an e-mail asking. EastwoodCompany.Com also says that helmet is 1/16,000th speed. Hm.

racerx004

If your not doing a lot of welding then the speed won't be a big factor.
What will hurt your eyes is using the wrong shade lens for the type of welding your doing.
With MIG I believe a 10 shade should be fine, but double check at the welding store.
If all your doing is just playing around in your garage and all your doing is MIG, then a single shade 2 x 4 lens would probably be the most economical way for you to go.
You said you have a 25 dollar chaepo lincoln electric helmet.
If it's a home depot helmet then it's probably not that big.
A normal welding helmet will usually cover all the way back past your ears.
If you go to the welding store, they usually have them on display and you can see what I mean.
If you do want to check out the huntsmen stuff there website
is www.huntsmanproducts.com
They don't have any prices because they only deal through dealers, but it will give you an Idea of what they offer.
As for the flames on the side, it does kind of look hot rodderish.
I like the plain black because I'm always putting on diffrent stickers and stuff. You can do that with the flames too though.
Anymore questions just feel free to ask.

TomP

I see if I can put that helmet on tonight, and find out how far back it goes. I noticed that these Hobart helmets "always block UV", and UV is what would burn out eyes, I think, so the helmet's looking better and better. Those Huntsman helmets look really professional, I bet they'd cost quite a bit more than the Hobart one. (And I see I was searching for Huntsmen, not Huntsman... oops.)

I showed the two helmet pictures to my girlfriend, basic black vs flames, and she laughed, and said I'd look like a Transformer robot if I wore the flamed helmet. I think I'll wind up with black... looks more professional, anyway.

87transam5.7tpi

get a piece of flame retardent material for like $5 and put it on the back of the helmet, that helps with the like comming in.

racerx004

All your welding lenses block out UV. When I bought my huntsman, I got the 4x4 lens with the fiber type shell.
I htink it was only like 38 dollars at the time with a regular welding lens.
The auot shade inserts are definitly expensive though, granted any auto shade is. The lenses do vary in price, depending on what you are looking for.
When I bought mine, I went with the top of the line 4x4 fully adjustable lens. Cost me $300 for that paticular lens. I like it though because I do A LOT of welding at work at times.
The rest of there lenses are definitly not that expensive.
If you like the hobart, then go for it.
Even if you do just get the plain black, you can always put some cool stickers on it, and make it look the way you want it.
You could even go as far as having it airbrushed if you really wanted too. I'm a sticker person myself.
And if you want to see some really wild welding hoods, go to
www.weilerwelding.com
Then scroll down and underneath the gorilla hood click on where it says "click here for hoodlums".

By the way the one thing I noticed about auto shades is that they are GREAT for small prcision work. You don't have to worry about striking an arc where you don't want to.

Merlin

I don't weld for profit, just for recreation. I've never tried an autoshade that I liked. There is always some delay. Granted, the last one I tried was over 10 years ago, and I'm sure they've improved since then, and I'm one of those old-fashioned "nod-down" kind of welders.

I DO have some background in industrial health and safety, however, so I'm not a complete novice.

Any helmet that uses a polycarbonate filler plate will block almost 100% of UV. Polycarbonate (like Lexan) inherently scatters UV rays instead of concentrating them. Pick up any pair of safety glasses with plastic (polycarbonate) lenses and the specifications will likely say "100% UV blocking". Just select the appropriate shade plate and a clear outer cover plate, and the UV shouldn't be an issue.

The problem isn't simply the UV, however, since intense levels of visible light can also cause retinal damage, and has a cumulative degrading effect on the cone receptors in the rear of the eyeball (the ones that give definition to images and help see light and dark, not colors).

RacerX has an excellent point. Select a helmet and fillers based on their function. You can make the helmet look pretty later by whatever means you wish. Having painted several amateur goalie masks, it isn't too difficult to get some really "interesting" designs. (My favorite was the skull.)

TomP

Thanks 87, I'll have to hunt some down. Racerx, those helmets look funky! The neighbors stay away from me already, with that white skull helmet, they'd probably all move away! And yeah, the precision is what I'm after. I hate not seeing what I'm doing!

And Merlin, yeah, I wasn't choosing the helmet based on the looks alone. I was picking it because it was a name brand (not like the ones a local store sells for $100) and the cost was affordable. The flames would've been a "bonus". I wonder what part of the spectrum the visible light from a MIG falls into? The Hobart helmet says the lens has a 3.5 shade in it's "light state", so I'll always have some kind of shade going. Maybe that's enough to block any extreme flash that sneaks past the auto dim. That's cool about the polycarbonate; I always wondered why my safety glasses said "UV resistant" on the packaging. I thought it was strange!

racerx004

Just wanted to let you know, i checked with the local welding store, a shade ten lens will be fine for MIG welding.
Like merlin said, there is always some, delay, but if your not doing a lot of welding I think you will be fine.
The auto shades have definitly come a long way. Welders I have talked too said the new auto shades don't hurt like the old ones used too.

Low C1500

What you have to understand is that the human eye only can detect a visual change in about 1/60 of a second (thats why the old floresent lights flickered because they where only 60 Hz, they make new lights around 66 Hz and they apppear fine to humans), furthermore the human brain can only process a visual change approx 1/6 of a second (give or take a little with each person, it is thought pro sports players are twice a fast as a normal person). So even thought the helmet stops you from the seeing the arc, it is still hitting your eye. This all said I don't think the slower helmet is going to be bad for you. I have been flashed many times and I don't think it has empaired my vision. Also with a normal hemelt you probably get more arc flash from accidently arcing when your helmet is up.

DSaylor

I bought the Hobart helmet your talking about earlier this year. I don't weld for a living,(I do weld at least once a week though) and I'd say buy it. I've had no problems at all with mine.

I bought mine at Harbor freight Tools for $100, so look around a little bit. If you don't have harbor freight around there, they're a discount tool store.

A freind of mine already had the flamed one so I bought the one with the blue, tribal looking design on it.

Jza

I've always used regular welding helmets, but at work I like to use this other guy's auto-dimmer. It works awesome and I've not had any problems with delay or whatnot. The only problem I had (and it really wasn't a problem), was when I'm welding and the arc shadow goes over the photoelectric sensor, but you can still see the arc and you get a little flash in your eyes. It's still dark enough it doesn't hurt as much as, say forgetting to flip down your helmet first..

The one I used was made by Blue Point. Nice, but something like $200.

ede's right about the fact that it gets dodgy if others are working close by. I was welding up a conveyer the other day while someone else was cutting the pieces, and the sparks from the torch or grinder kept dimming my helmet. It's still not enough to really get annoying, but something to consider.

If you use a regular helmet, it's hard to break that habit up flipping the helmet up and down to line up the next weld when you switch to the auto-dimmer.. hehe

Merlin76

I think that if you're not welding stuff that often, how much time are you really saving by having the auto-dimming helmet? No more than I weld these days, I don't mind taking the time to get everything in place and "nod" my head to get the helmet in font of my eyes. It just seems to me that you're wasting more time talking about this than you'd ever save actually using it. Just my two cents.

matthew

this is what I weld with



I like it alot, lots of features and stuff.

TomP

Actually Merlin, I'm not concerned about saving time. I want to see exactly what I'm welding, no questions about it. And nodding my head up/down is a big pain in the ***.

Matthew, sweet, that's the model that's one "level" higher than mine! Glad to hear it's not a bad unit.

Dsaylor, thanks for the tip! I used to get the Harbor Freight catalogs, I guess since I haven't ordered for a few years, they stopped mailing 'em. I used to love when I'd order, and they'd ask me "is this a house or a farm"? Thanks also for your "approval" on the helmet!

And Jza, the Hobart helmet's $180! I'll go check out Snap On's website for the blue point helmet.. hm, I wonder if Snap On makes a helmet? Haha, I could imagine a price of $800 for a helmet- but I bet it'd be a damn good one! How'd you get the shadow over the sensor? Were you welding directly in front of you, or, was something between you and the arc?

So the old helmets were worse than the new ones, eh? Maybe it has to do with the time-to-dim.. along Low C1500's train of thought. (I wonder if that's why my old flouresent light seems to flicker; I'll have to look at the bulb when I get home! )

Thanks everyone! Maybe this message will help out the next guy looking for an auto-dimming helmet.

TomP

Got an update on the helmets!

I saw that conflicting info about the Hobart helmets, also sold by Miller Electric. Turns out that the *original* helmets dimmed in 1/11,000th of a second. The current helmets dim in 1/16,000th of a second!

So now you just have to "make sure" you're getting the new version of the helmets. Hm; I should write back to find out when that changed. If it changed last week, the 1/16,000th helmets probably aren't out of the factory yet.

TomP

Well, I decided on a helmet! RacerX, I went to the local welding store Saturday, 10 mins before they closed (oops), and asked about their helmets. The guy showed me some Hornell Speedglas helmets. They were a bit pricey-- $400 for the auto dimming, adjustable shade, wide view helmet! But I know this store sells to the pros, and all I'm doing is working on a car! So I think I'm going with the cheapest auto-dimming helmet they have... the Speedglas Utility. It's a fixed shade, and autodims from a 3 to 10. What I like is that they flash in 1/25,000th of a second, and, they have dual sensors, one on each side. I think the Hobart I was looking at only has one sensor.

The adjustable Hornell auto-darkeners start at 9, and go up to 13 (and cost twice as much!), but when am I going to go up to 13? I don't see that happening any time soon. The only thing I'd do is go down to a 9- and I don't see why I should pay double for 1 shade lighter.

As usual, I've got a link, too... you can find the Speedglas Utility info here. They also show their 9000 series helmets, which have more features than the Utility, but I don't need that stuff. One nice feature would be that "CO2 breathing vent", but I won't be welding 24-7. I think too that if I wanted, I could put that vent onto the Utility helmet, but it's not a priority. http://www.aros.net/~spedglas/hsihome.html

I'll try it out either tonight or tomorrow and give a "review"!

TomP

The helmet worked great... it was amazing... I could see everything, from right before I struck the arc, to the arc starting (helmet darkened right away), to as I was welding, and then when I stopped and the helmet lightened.

One thing I noticed; I was just doing a quick welding session (took 1/2 hour to drag all the welding equip out of the basement, lay some beads on a scrap piece of 1/8" steel, and put the equipment away), and didn't mess with wire speed or amperage for my first few welds. Wire speed was too fast, and my arc started "popping"- as the popping happened, the helmet would un-darken, and then re-darken. Any sane person would've lifted off the trigger to "fix" the wire speed or amperage or etc, so this shouldn't be an issue with normal welding. After I slowed the wire speed a bit, and got a steady weld, the helmet was fine.

Most of my welds will be spot welds, anyway. But the helmet is great! Shop around, on the 'net, I found this helmet for only $125- and I paid $45 more.