PaveTim

I got the engine together a little bit ago. I put new main and rod bearings, piston rings, cam, gear drive. I was gettin alot of metal in the oil so and a squealing when the car gets up to temp. The squealing is coming from the bottom of engine and is damn loud but does not squeal when cold. I took the oil pan and all the caps off, no spun bearing. What is it? Could it be a oil pump starting to go bad? I did notice I lost about 15 psi of pressure. Help please. Thanks. Oh besides the squeal the car does run good.

ede

i'd remove the belts and run it to see if the noise stops, if not i'd suspect the flex plate. did you have the oil tested or just going by looks and feel? there should be no metasl in the oil. check rockers, push rods, guide plates.

felo72

Oh yeah, ede made a good point, the guide plates. Did you purchase new pushrods? And are you running guide plates?

PaveTim

Well I have guide plates. But everything is the exact same on the motor as it was before except for the gear drive, cam, bearings and piston rings. How do you disconnect the belt when it is a serpentine belt, everything will shut off then? And I don't think it is the flywheel becuase when the car is cold it sounds perfect, it gradually gets worse when the car heats up to temp.

felo72

Ok, did you start getting shavings in the oil before or after you rebuilt it? If you're getting shavings now, I wouldn't be running the engine anymore.
Did you have the block machined for the timing gear? The block has to be machined for the idler gears.

RB83L69

Is it coming from the front, or the rear, or the middle? Constant shriek like a loose belt, or more like a RPM-related sound? Does it affect the idle speed? What kind of metal is in the oil? Steel, cast-iron, copper, aluminum?

PaveTim

Well the metal is like glitter in the oil, there is no shavings. I will try to take the belts off later when it gets hot. I guess if it is the oil pump I will get it to squeal and then prime it to see if that does it. A little more troubleshooting i guess. Thanks guys I will let ya know

RB83L69

Glitter = shavings

Some things to look at:

• Main one would be piston/rod assemblies put together or put in backwards. The pistons should have a mark on the top, which should face the front. The rods should be assembled onto them such that the bearing tangs go "down", that is, away from the cam. If you imagine laying the piston/rods out on the table with the mark on the piston up, there should be 4 rods with their bearing tang notches to the right (left bank) and 4 with their notches to the left (right bank). If any of this is done wrong, the bearings will ride on the chamfer of the rod, and will be forced hard against each other by this; with some pistons, it will also force the side of the small end of the rod hard against the side of the pin bore bosses of the pistons.
• Look carefully at all the crank counterweights, and make sure they're not being forced up against the block or main caps.
• I'd recommend losing the gear drive no matter what, it's pointless, power-robbing, and a potential longevity problem. Put a high-quality roller chain set in it; the $60 kind of real roller, not the $20 bushing "roller" truck chain. That kind is inferior to the regular stock car Link-Belt chain.
• Highly doubtful that it's the oil pump. But if you can't find any other source of the noise, it's so cheap, just change it out. Get a Melling M55, the Mr Gasket 26 spring, the 55-S screen, and the IS-55E intermediate shaft (metal collar instead of plastic BS).

Again, identifying the material that's in the oil will help greatly at pinpointing the problem. There should be no metal of any kind whatsoever in the oil, ever. This clearly indicates something wearing very rapidly, and whatever it is, is surely not long for this world. I would suspect that the noise and the metal shavings in the oil are closely related.

ontogenesis

i had a friend that had the same prob in a truck he picked up for $100, thing drove nice for a while, started squeeking real bad and if it continued to run after the squeeking started it would eventually die. It was some HORRIBLE looking main and rod bearings.

radiateu2

Pave Tim,

When you put it back together how did the lower assembly rotate by hand was it really stiff It should only take 35 to 40 ft lbs of torque to rotate it. I had a problem with a bent rod and a rod that was put on the piston wrong by the machine shop. What did you use as a lube for assembly?

PaveTim

I am almost positive it is the thrust bearing. I did get the clearance but did not have enough endplay. I think when it gets hot it everything expands and it binds becuase when i took out the bearings the thrust surface was a little worn. i have to see if I can get the proper end play and sand the bearing. But do you think if I loosen all the main caps and disconnect the torque converter I can get out the top half of the thrust bearing? Thanks.

radiateu2

I dont think you can get the bearing out without removing the crank. But it is certainly worth the try. Is that the only place you see wear?
What brand bearings did you use? Rember the bearings are locked in there with the oiling key.

RB83L69

It is nearly impossible for that to hapen. The crank only grows a thousandth or so in that dimension, while the end play is typically around .012"-.020". If the crank could somehow mysteriously grow enough to wipe out that much end play, the .0015"-.002" of bearing clearance wouldn't stand a chance.

You need to do some actual investigation and gather some facts before you jump to some wild conclusion about some mysterious force affecting your engine that nobody else has ever heard of. I will guarantee that what your are talking about doing will accomplish nothing, you'll put the motor back together, and whatever is realy going on will still be going on, except that now you'll have a sodomized thrust bearing on top of whatever the real problem is.

What did your bearings look like when you tok them apart? With as few miles on it as it seems, there should be virtually no visible wear whatsoever. The silvery-gray material should all still be on the copper, no copper should be showing anywhere at all. That includes the thrust bearing. Remember, you had metal shavings in the oil; metal shavings come from solid metal (duh); something in that motor is eating something else metal!!! All you have to do is stop guessing about what's going on, and instead look around and find whatever it is that's grinding something else to powder and filling the oil with metal. It should be glaringly obvious when you look in the right place. If you don't see a trashed thrust bearing, then the thrust bearing isn't the problem. If you mess around with that and don't fix the actual problem, then whatever is eating itself will continue to do so; and bearings don't like it when their oil supply is full of metal shavings. They will not last hundreds of thousands of miles, that's for sure.

PaveTim

Well I may not have found the problem yet but I have done the research. The metal is coming from the distributor gear becuase the teeth are pretty damn worn. I have taken out the bearings like 3 times already and no copper on them. But the thrust part of the bearing is starting to show wear, and because of the clearance, there should be no wear on the thrust bearing right. The whole problem is strange a very loud squeal when it is hot the comes from bottom back of motor. The bearings I used are the federal mogul with the 3/4 oil groove.

PaveTim

Found the cause of that nasty squeal and you guys would have never guessed. I still don't know why and how it did it. But I blocked on side of the valve cover so I can run one pcv and get a vacuum for sealing. I put on an open breather back on the one side and it went away. Somehow the vacuum in the engine caused the squealing. I would like to know why or how but probably will never know. Thanks for all the help guys, now i'm happy.

radiateu2

Glad you found the squealing noise but it still doesnt explain the metal shavings and ground down timing gear. I wonder if it is possible for the vaccum to suck the oil from lubing that area? I am sure RB would know

PaveTim

I was wondering the same thing because there was quite abit of vacuum. I used the old gear I will have to call comp cams to see if I should be using a cast iron gear or steal gear. The gears could have been off alignment too because I did change cams, the cam I had in there before was a lunati so maybe they are a little different. i will get a new gear and see what happens.

RB83L69

That's interesting.... I don't think I've ever heard one do that. Does the PCV valve rattle and otherwise seem normal? Also, is there any sign of an intake gasket leak? The bottom of the intake runners is next to the crankcase (lfter valley) and a leak there lets vacuum into the crankcase, and oil into the affected cylinder.

The dist gear shouldn't wear heavily like that. I'm assuming that it was good when you put it in there, and has wiped out quickly. That usually points to an oil pump issue, since the dist drives it. A HV/HP oil pump will cause that from excessive loading on the gear (too much force required to turn the pump).

You might want to just go ahead and change the pump out, as cheap as they are. Get the pupm as I described, it's less than $25 for all that. And of course a new dist gear.

If your cam is a street falt-tappet or hydraulic roller, the stock later-model dist gear will work fine. Don't get a bronze one, those wear too rapidly in a street motor.

On your other post, the thrust surface is a bearing, just like the other surfaces. Don't sand it, it isn't necessary, and will not do any good to do that. It will often show wear more than the other surfaces do, but there's nothing really wrong with that. I'd strongly recommend just putting it back together like it belongs and leaving it alone.

88IROC350TPI

I had the same problem. A nasty screechy noise coming from the front of the motor....... turns outs: