bowtieguy01

Ok I went out to the street races and i blew an intake gasket. Well I work at a dealership so they were going to work on it while i was working. And they did. Oh yeah, I forgot to metion that my car hit 300 degeres + in about a minute flat. SO they gave me a new thermostat,gaskets,sensors. Well everything was going smoothly from what I was told. But then they started back up, It was misin like a m*f*. I mean bad. It sounded like i had a hella of cam. So I asked to check the plugs wires. He did. All normal. So i asked him to hook it up to a computer and see if it threw any codes. We did, and then somthing fummy happened. When he told it to get the data it said waitng for data fields, and then the engine started runing like SH*T. As soon as he hit cancel it went back to normal, and just missed. What the hell happened. I took it for a drive, the sob would surge at idle to keep itself from dyin. PLEASE HELP!

Bowtieguy01

86Trans Am

Sounds like you were in limp mode, maybe you fried your computer.?

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1986 Trans Am
305 TPI
"If it's not one thing, it's another!"
http://www2.hanover.edu/hierlmeier

bowtieguy01

If my computer is fried wouldn't that cause other things like my gauges to not work? Also Does anyone a way to check if the fuel injectors are working?

Bort62

Well, I know a good way to test if the injectors are WORKING

now as far as working properly...

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85 Z28 - Daily Driver
60 Ranchero - Project ( Money Hole )

Black Beauty

a)whta kind of engine
b)did you check for vacuum?


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Rick
90 Camaro RS 305 TBI
400 small block, Hooker 1 3/4 super comp long tubes, Random Tech Cat, Hooker aero chamber cat back on the way!!
TH700-R4 with Trans-Go shift kit
MacEwen Motorsports White Gauge Overlays
K&N Filter Charger (wooohooo)
GTS Headlight and Taillight covers
5% Limo Tint all around
Classic White Chevy Bowtie sticker on rear window

Man if my camaro were a rice-rocket all those mods would give me what...easily 50-60 hp!!!

bowtieguy01

86 tpi 350 vette

JP84Z430HP

300 degrees?!?!?! Check the head gaskets! Or even worse warped heads! That could be the miss problem. Check the injectors with an ohm meter. I don't remmeber the spec, but if one is bad, it will be way off from the others, and it is possible that the heat could have killed one or more of them.

Your gauges are independent of the computer, so they should work normally even if the computer is the problem. Does the Check engine light come on? Is it a dead miss, as in one cylinder constantly missing?

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Working on:
'84 Z28 LG4 305
Added dual elec fans.
145 MPH IROC Speedo
Building 430 HP 350
using primarily GMPP parts.
Block is in shop!

Starting to look like the Kicker poster child!

bowtieguy01

Another problem showed up today. When the car is running you can here a noise that sounds like something is jumping around in the engine, and when you turn off the car the noise goes on for a few seconds and the quits. It sound like coins tumbling around in a dryer while its running? Any ideas?

bowtieguy01

I heard that you can check the injectors by puting a screw driver on it and then puting your ear to the end, you should be able to hear a clicking sound if its working right.
Are there any easier ways?
I'm just tring the process of elimination at this point. I/m about ready to pull the tpi setup and throw it into a garbage can, set it on fire and send it back to gm.
Bowtieguy01

Stell1579

with that mutch heat DEFINATLY check the heads. then work from there, run a compression check and see if you lost a cylender compleatly. thats the easyest BIG thing to rule out.

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1988 IROC 305TPI MINT!!
Mods= Accell SuperCoil, MSD 6A, Ported Plenum, No MAF Screans , K & N, 160 Thermostat+ Temp Switch, Relocated MAT, Cols Air

JP84Z430HP

Before sending it back to GM, send it to me! I'd love to battle with it! LOL

I have a feeling that you're not haveing a problem with the TPI, but the engine itself. A compression test is definately the place to start. You could have warped the crap out of the heads, or the rings may have seized in the pistons, it's really hard to tell, but with that much heat, it could very well be something major. You also could have charred a couple bearings, and caused the oil pressure to drop, and maybe cause lifters to drop.

The screwdriver listening test is just OK for testing the injectors. It will let you know if they are at least trying to work. Testing them with an ohm meter is what you need to do though. To do this, unplug each injector from the harness, the test across the terminal of each on the low scale. Write down the values, and compare them. They should be really close to each other like within .2 or .3 ohms. As I said before, I can't remember what they should read for sure, but I can find out.

Hope this helps a bit more. I'm sure I'd have better luck if I could hear it!

By the way.....Where's Vader???? He'd have some good ideas!

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Working on:
'84 Z28 LG4 305
Added dual elec fans.
145 MPH IROC Speedo
Building 430 HP 350
using primarily GMPP parts.
Block is in shop!

Awaiting results from all 8 ASE tests.

Starting to look like the Kicker poster child!

[This message has been edited by JP84Z430HP (edited November 12, 2000).]

evilho7810

Definetly check the injectors. My car ran like crap, it would surge at stoplights the idle was erratic and I failed emissions. I checked the injectors woth an ohm meter and 2 of them read like 10 more or less ohms than the other 6. I think that the proper ohms were 12.5.

JakeJr

That "jumping around inside the motor" has really got me worried. This could be something really serious and will only get worse the more the engine is run.

You need to run the engine as little as possible until that's isolated.

Pull all the plugs and examine them for any parts that may broken off.

Remove the BAT wire from the distributor and screw in a compression guage. Remove the injector fuses and pump each cylinder the same number of cranks.

There shouldn't be more that a 10% or so difference between the highest and lowest reading.

Pull the valve covers and inspect all the valve train parts, rockers, springs, etc.

Depending on what you find, you may have to look further.

300 degrees may have warped the head, block or both but checking that out calls for some rather major surgery involving pulling the heads.

Once the source of the 'jumping around' is found, borrow an ECM from a friend and see if it wll eliminate your ECM concerns.

Keep us posted.

Jake

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1986 Corvette Coupe, 415 CID, Edelbrock 6073s, ZZ9

tf0r1

I'd start with a compression test and work up,
just my 2 cents

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(Kill the headlights, and put it in neutral)

--George
92 RS 25th Aniv.
350 Goodwrench (NEW LO5)
700R4 Raptor: high performance intermediate billet servo,Mega Valve,13 vane high performance pump,1800 heavy-duty stall converter and a 29 element heavy-duty forward input sprag

formula90

On thirdgen ecms, do not control or have anything to do with the gauges. the ecm controls timing and monitors sensors voltages and corrects them with stored tables the computer has pre-installed on. if you were to bypass the ecm, put in a vaccum advace distributer, and non-feedback carb (non-electronic) the gauges would still work the same.

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bowtieguy01

OK! Found out that the harmonic balancer is cracked. SO I bought 1 at the dealership , and im puting it on tonight. But How can a harmonic balancer crack? What is a liquid dampener? Should I get one.
Thanks for all the replies, they helped alot.

Bowtieguy01

bowtieguy01

Oh yeah I forgot to say that i have aluminum heads. They can stand up to heat better, right or wrong? I heard that from one of my not so reasuring friends today.

Bowtieguy01

Kevin S

8 out of 10 times the actual temp may not have hit 300.When the intake gasket went so did the coolent.Right into the oil pan(atleast mine did).when the coolent sensor had no coolent making contact the sensor picked up the temp in the coolent routes.
I would first check for any knid of vacumm leaks.Mostly around the throttle body.And anywhere close.
In a worse case senerio,you may be looking at more damage then just the gasket.Like a crack or warped head or a cracked block.


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http://www.camaroforum.com/
http://v6fbody.com/
http://nethirdgen.org/
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/tristatecamaro

[This message has been edited by Kevin S (edited November 14, 2000).]

scoob8000

wow i bet your happy thats all the more it was.. theres a good chance that caused your idle problem too, the knock sensor picked that up and compensated, causing it to run like crap.. hope that fixes the problem.. arnt all harmonic ballancers liquid filled?

Vader

BTG,

I may have missed reading some of what you wrote, but after the error codes were retrieved, the first thing I would do is to clear and reinitialize the ECM. If the scanner can't retrieve the error codes, revert to the trusted method of shorting the ALDL diagnostic terminal to ground and counting the MIL lamp flashes.

Unless the temperature in the passenger compartment got to 300°F, you shouldn't be eager to blame the ECM. It can only act on the data that the sensors provide. If a compression or cylinder leak down test reveals no problems with the cylinders, there may be component problems. (I'm guessing the compression leak down test will reveal something.)

Blowing a gasket and dumping coolant can raise the temperature of the remaining coolant beyond the boiling point. If the ECM gets a temperature reading over 285°F, you'll definitely set a DTC and revert to base lookup fuel and spark curve tables. Clear the ECM RAM, then restart. If your dash gauge read over 300°F, it has nothing to do with the ECM. You may have shorted the gauge wiring to ground or to a 12V+ source.

Just out of curiosity, why did they replace all the sensors? That sounds less like good diagnostic skill, and more like parts-changing the problem to death by process of elimination, at your expense. Personally, I would have tested all the sensor outputs if I suspected a bad one. After all the parts-swapping, it sounds like they'll get to do that anyway.

And for reference, a Bosch injector solenoid coil should read about 16 ohms resistance. Unfortunately, you can have a perfectly good solenoid in the injector and still have a puked injector valve, pintle, screens, etc. If you do have a low-resistance coil, the acceptable range goes down to about 10 ohms. After that, the excitation current required to operate the solenoid core will exceed what the ECM was designed to switch, and you could experience pulse-width problems on that bank of injectors.

You might want to check the MAT and CTS sensors for correct resistance at a given temperature. The FPR might also have been affected by high temperatures, so a fuel pressure check is a good idea. Ans as long as you're waving the meter around under the hood, you should check the TPS output voltage at idle and through its range.

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Later,
Vader
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"Make Me Bad"
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bowtieguy01

Thanks Vader you always seem to come through.
I was starting to get a little dissapointed that you werent repling. All do what you said, probably not all at once though. Unforntunaltey my car is my only transportation, so when its out of service so am I. And thats my next problem, the chapter on this cars life might becoming to an end. My dad is starting to get pissed at all the repairs(about every month) and he's thinking about getting rid of it.(even though its my car and i paid for it)But on a good note I might be getting a 70' formula firebird. Finnally a f-body! It's 90% restored and it has a 455! It has 15k miles on the new motor & tranny. It looks good so im going to go take a look. He wants $4900 for it. That seems like a steal? All keep you posted.
Thanks for the help!

Bowtieguy01