Error404

My cam (hydraulic non roller) and lifters should be here in a few days, and I have a good idea for how to break the cam in.



install and lube up all the parts (with the cam lube, right? not oil?)
run the engine at 2000-2500 for 20 minutes
change the oil


correct?

I am running synthetic oil... I have heard thats bad for breaking in a cam? Is it possible to switch back to regular oil after running synthedic oil in my engine? or can I break the cam in with synthetic?

And after the 20 minutes (assuming it makes 20 minutes with out over heating), do I shut the engine off at 2000 RPM, or let off the gas then shut it off? and if something happens during the breaking (over heating, or what ever) do I shut the engine off at 2000 RPM, or let off the gas and shut it off?

after the 20 minute breakin and oil change, how should I drive the car? very light? very hard? normal?

any tips for the install/breakin? I did some searching on the board, and got quite a bit of info already.

Thanks!

wesilva

iTrader: (35)

I would throw in a bottle of Crane Cam break in additive. If you have to shut her down because of a leak or some emergency, just take your foot off the gas and turn it off. It does not have to be shut down at 2000 rpm. Make sure everything is buttoned up before starting. Have a buddy watch the motor for leaks and such while you keep an eye on guages. My last cam break in was a bummer because I didn't have the proper tension on the alternator belt and it started squealling right from the start. I let the belt ride it out for the 20 minutes and watched it smoke and finally break when I shut it down. Had to replace the belt before I could properly set the timing, set the idle air mixture, set the valve lash, etc.

RB83L69

DO NOT try to break it in with synthetic. That is asking for trouble. Use dinosaur juice for break-in, and the first oil change afterwards.

You'll probably have to let the idle speed back down if you have to shut the engine off.

Doesn't matter how you drive it, except avoid over-revving it. Doesn't matter if you drive it hard or easy, beyond that.

kfoley

I don't think it really matters what oil you run, just make sure you get plenty of breakin lube on the cam. Also makes sure the lash is setup correctly (wiggle the pushrods up and down and tighten until they don't wiggle anymore then go another 1/4 turn). Start the motor and bring it up to 2000 rpm asap then vary between 2000-2700rpm to break it in. Setupp some big fans in front of the car so that you can get adequate airflow to the radiator. If it still overheats, let off the gas and kill it, then as soon as it cools down start it back up again and bring it up. I had to this on my truck b/c it was having cooling problems. After about 20-25 minutes I let the motor come back down to about 1000rpm for afew minutes and then back down to idle to let it cool off for a couple minutes. After that, double check everything, and look for leaks then you can take it for a test drive. I'd take it kind of easy, don't beat on it for the first 500 miles or so (at about 300 miles you can get a little more rough with it, but at 500 miles its definitely ready to go WOT). Hopefully it goes well for you... Good Luck!

Error404

Hey, thanks for all the info!

dinosaur juice, I assume you mean "normal" oil?

is it ok to fill up the engine with normal oil after having the engine running with Synthetic?

wesilva

iTrader: (35)

I agree with RB83L69 on the synthetic lube. When I worked a Honda Shop years ago, someone purchased a new Goldwing. The thing was in 2 times in 4 months because it smoked and the rings wouldn't seat. Found out the owner drained the crankcase right out of the showroom and used Mobile One. The stuff is just too slippery to allow proper ring break-in. Plus synthetics are to expensive to use for just 20 min.

Error404

I have heard that once an engine is synthetic, you can't go back to regular oil.

do I just drain the synthetic, and put normal oil in? or what?

wesilva

iTrader: (35)

I'm quite sure that's an old wives tale. You should'nt use synthetic in an old high mileage motor because the molecular structure is smaller than conventional oil and it will seep past rings and guides.

Just drain it out and use conventional. I hope you didn't just change oil. If so, store it and use it after break in.

Error404

I'm actualy due for an oil change here in a few weeks or so, just in time for the cam install :-)

Good, so I'll just drain out the synthetic real good, and what type/weight oil should I run for the cam breakin? (plus some breakin additive as mentioned?)

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

You don't have to worry too much about believing anything RB says.

When you do the cam swap, drain out the synthetic. Use cam assembly lube on the face of the lifters only. The Crane break-in additive isn't a bad idea. Straight 30 weight oil of a non-synthetic type is good, although you shouldn't have a problem with multi-grade non-synthetics, either.

After the cam break-in, drain the oil, change the filter. Another fill on non-synthetic wouldn't hurt anything.

I did the above, drained the non-synthetic after a couple hundred easy miles, then went to full synthetic again.

Where does this stuff about "can't go back to petroleum after synthetic" come from, anyway? The no-synthetic-in-high-mileage-engines isn't any more credible, either.

MrDude_1

you should NEVER use automotive engine oil in any motorcycle that has the crankcase oil shared with the tranny.
it will make the clutch slip(motorcycle clutches are submersed in the oil) and burn it up.




you can flip back in forth HOWEVER, most synthetics will allow the seals to shrink a lil bit....and if they are already worn, it leaks more. and THATS why people say not to put synth in a high mil SBC. note that later model engines like the LS1 have seals that were designed with synth in mind.

kfoley

Is there a specific reason for this? I've always put it on the lobes and the lifters, do you just put regular assembly lube on the lobes or heavyweight oil or regular oil?

Error404

I dont' know where I got the idea that after synthetic oil, regular was bad for the engine. I guess thats just something that floats around.

Thanks for the info! I'll use 30 weight oil with some crane breakin additive.

Thanks so much guys!

MrDude_1

i wouldnt run STRAIGHT 30.... regular 10W-30 is also fine... but thats more of a opinion thing then anything else.


i still donno what that crane additive actually is, but ive never heard anything bad about it.




just be sure to drain your engine oil when its still warm.... that way most of the cam lube comes out..

Error404

thanks for the tip!

"to avoid blistering of hand when taking off a hot oil pan bolt, have a friend to it"

MrDude_1

keeping in mind that it could REALLY FRIGGIN BURN YOU if you screw up, i try to do it when its still warm... as long as you can hold your hand on the oil pan, its mmk..


i like to use a rachet wrench on the plug while holding it in with a rag over my hand... so if oil does come out early, it goes on the rag...... once i get the bolt unthreaded, i still have it pused up in there... jsut pull it quickly away and it all drains nicely into the pan..



thats the idea anyway. dont do it if its so hot you cant hold your hand to the pan....... between the time it takes to go from under the car to the water faucet, your hand will get burned pretty damn bad.

MrDude_1

also.... wait until the oil filter cools off COMPLETELY before you take it off... because you will get that oil on your hand, even if you have a big rag.... no sence in burning yourself over nothing.



and you may already know this, but fill the filter with oil before installing with every oil change..... that way the engines not sitting totally dry while the filter is filling with oil. just a lil thing, but alot of people dont know that.

Vader

Motorcycles don't have engine oil and transmission oil in a common sump. Motorcycles have a dry sump and external oil tank/cooler. Honda might do that, but no real motorcycle would.

I use the moly break in lube on both the lifter faces and cam lobes. Don't forget to polish the distributor drive gear on the cam with a stiff wire brush, and lubricate it as well.

I wouldn't use synthetic for cam, crank, or ring break-in. It might be O.K., but some friction to polish off the grain structure of the metal for the first 3-4,000 miles can be desireable. Some "wear" on a new engine can be a good thing. The longest I've ever seen recommended as a break-in period is 10-12,000 miles, but that was not from an engine manufacturer, but a builder. That would be for a freshly ground crank and everything new.

In my opinion, switching between synthetic and oil is not a real problem, other than you lose the advantages of synthetic for the duration of the mineral oil use. Major brand synthetics will not cause leakage - period. As 5-7 mentioned, those are myths and misconceptions. Major synthetic have seal conditioners to keep seals in better order than mineral oil. The problem is that if an engine burning oil has leakage, the sludge in the oil will help seal the leaks. Switching to synthetic will start cleaning away this sludge, and reveal any leaks that were already present but masked by the sludge formation from the oil. It won't actually create leakage. I have a 120K mile LT1 that doesn't leak a drip. I DID have an oil cooler hose leak, but that's a common problem on them, even those that use oil instead of synthetics.

MrDude_1

if you're talking about thoes POS oil dripping designed in the 30s harleys, then perhaps... but i was talking the greater majority of bikes.......


i like harleys somewhat.. i LOVE Vtwins, but be honest.. if it wasnt for the fact that everyone gets pissy when they change stuff, even harley wouldnt still be running thoes motors.


all hondas with a big H on them suck. hondas with a hawk wing are cool... i like all motorcycles.. regardless of make... and what i said still holds true.


and btw, the Buell firbolt was the best handling bike ive ever ridden..... and ive ridden most modern sportbikes including ducati, aprilla, and vespa (hehe )... erik buell got it right.

if only he didnt have to work with that air cooled POS in the middle it would be THE bike.


but alas, my 90 honda hawk 650 Vtwin is still faster then it



OLD pic. anything you mention, problys been fixed.

25THRSS

I understand you want to seat the rings, but why the cam? It is my understanding that you want no wear on the cam at all. I used assembly lube on the cam bearings as well as the lobes and have had no problem. I used mobil 1 synthetic also on break in and have had no problems in my LS1 at all, but maybe roller cams are different?

Error404

yea, you don't really have to "breakin" roller cams, right? thats why they are "roller" and not solid. correct? just gotta let everything settle in place?

AJ_92RS

Yes. Roller cams are different.

As five7kid said, with flat tappet cams, you don't want any assembly lube on the sides or the cup of the lifter. It's thick stuff and can clog the holes the lifter uses to send oil up the pushrod.

If that happens, the valves and springs may not get enough oil, ever.

Error404

ah, another tip! thanks!

cam lub on the BOTTOM of the lifters only, not the sides. *checkmark*

:hail:

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I guess I wasn't specific enough. I meant, as AJ said, not to put any cam assembly lube on the sides of the lifter. I didn't mean you shouldn't put it on the cam lobes.

If you use a synthetic oil to break in a cam, the lifters may not spin in their bore. They'll develope a straight wear path with respect to the lobe, and even the synthetic won't be able to prevent cupping after that.

BTW, synthetics don't make seals shrink. They will desolve gunk that's deposited themselves on seals, and that's why there may be some leakage at first. Leakage will tend to decrease after that. But, I digress...

Squeeks83

always use Dino oil on breakin, 15-20 minutes at 2- 2500 rpm, then after that drive it like you normally would, doesnt matter after that.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

I agree with 5-7 and 92 -

Use regular motor oil for break-in, and moly lube the bottom of the lifters and cam lobes/bearings. The moly only protects things till the oil warms up which takes like, 2 minutes...then it pretty much melts and blends with the oil....the oil is really what determines how it breaks in.

I wouldn't get upset if I had moly grease on the side of the lifters...if your oil pump works, it'll overcome any moly grease in oil passages etc....and again, it'll melt into the oil.

Error404

Yea, I ment in addition to the cam, was only talking about the lifters :-)

any more tips? we install next Wednesday :-)

wesilva

iTrader: (35)

I didn't make myself very clear. A high-mileage motor that is showing signs of deterioration such as burning oil, etc. will not improve with synthetic oils. In other words, there is no magic potion for a worn out motor.