IROCKZE

Hi all,
Hope this is the correct board for this, I have been thinking of how to make my car safer. I am especially concerned about a roll over, I really don't think the t-top roof structure and steep sloped windshield would hold up very well. (I guess the a roll bar would be the obvious fix) Also has anyone a seen a really bad offset front crash on a 3rd gen, and if so how did it hold up? (footwell caved in,dash in front seat,etc.) I love my car but don't want to get hurt. Thanks!

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85 IROC,5.0 TPI,T-Tops,fully loaded,black with red Lear-Siegler "Camaro" interior,Decal Delete,91 Bose stereo,Stage 2 Fastchip,AFPR,TB Airfoil,K&Ns,March pulleys,Alum. Driveshaft,92 police version 700r4

"The Devil drives a Camaro"

irocbsa

One of my buddies launched his RS at the end of a neighborhood street. He jumped the curb at 40, took out a transformer and hit a tree with the car about 3 feet off the ground. Walked away. The long front end on our cars will absorb a lot of the force of impact.
bsa

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"If they do not run, Then they will die." - Stonewall Jackson

'87 IROC, 355 TPI,700R4, Trick Flow Heads, Comp Cam, Comp 1.6 Rockers, Lucas 23# injectors, Edelbrock headers, Flowmaster 3'' exhaust, gutted cat, Mallory coil, Mallory HyFire IV ignition box, Mallory Sidewinder 8mm wires, Autolite platinum plugs, K&N filters, Transgo Performance Shift Kit, Corvette Servo, 2,000 Torque Converter

Rob P

iTrader: (1)

From what I've seen in numerous junkyards they hold up very well. Even roll overs in T-roofed cars. I pulled my interior out of a roll-over 92RS with t-tops. The car held up very well. I have seen some pretty hard hits in the boneyard but the passenger compartment seems to hold up well.

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Rob P
89RSconvtZZ4TPI
92Z28convt5spd
71Impala convt 402BB
BETTER DRIVING THRU SUPERIOR HORSEPOWER!

JDMZ28

iTrader: (1)

I think what will get our 3rd gens is a hit in the side. The low ground clearance and lack of stucture support would definitely make them a good target for young bimbos driving daddy's SUV. Some subframe connectors will add a good amount of strength for a front impact. I don't know if there is much you can do about a side impact though. Maybe you could weld some supports in the door.

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1986 CAMARO Z28 -> 151,000 original miles, 43,000 on 89' vette 350 block, Holley 650 DP, Weiand intake, 1.6 rockers, 1 5/8" headers, no cat, 2 1/2" Flowmaster catback, Mallory coil, March pulleys, T5 with 3.35 1st gear and 0 miles, 90% Centerforce clutch, 3.73 posi, Eibach 1" drop springs, Spohn LCA's, Spohn adjustable panhard rod, Subframes connectors, polyurethane swaybar bushings/endlinks, 2 12" Sound Streams, 2 Infinity 6X9's, 2 Pioneer 6X9's, 800 watt Lanzar Vibe amp. ET 13.22@ 106.4MPH Next mods-> Homemade ram air, B&M shifter, Extreme Energy 230/236 cam.

88irocz28

Our cars are so low that a side hit by an SUV will invariably result in the SUV's bumper entering the car through the window or the top part of the door. I love my car but this is the only thing that freaks me out.

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'88 IROC 305 TPI
Gutted airboxes
160 degree T-stat
Advanced base TPS voltage
Relocated IAT sensor
Momo steering wheel
Ram-air setup coming soon
Flowmaster muffler
Taylor SpiroPro wires
Accel cap and rotor

IROCKZE

SCARY thought...especially with so many SUVs on the road. I had planned on Eibach lowering springs but not now. I guess that means than a SUV bumper will hit square in the taillights too.

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85 IROC,5.0 TPI,T-Tops,fully loaded,black with red Lear-Siegler "Camaro" interior,Decal Delete,91 Bose stereo,Stage 2 Fastchip,AFPR,TB Airfoil,K&Ns,March pulleys,Alum. Driveshaft,92 police version 700r4

"The Devil drives a Camaro"

Andy89RS

Don't change your plans because of what an SUV will do to you in an accident. An inch or two of lowering will not make much of a difference if a pinhead in a 5 ton luxo-truck decides his conversation on the cell phone is more important than paying attention to the traffic light. The only way to be safe from them is to join all the sheep and buy one yourself. "safer in an accident" they say... Nevermind that the lousy handling and extreme braking distances greatly increase your chances of getting in one to begin with...

89IROCZ

Thirdgen's are not all that safe in the sense that it is somewhat easy to get into an accident if your not careful.... as far as in the event that you do get into an accident... they are extremley safe. These are big cars, and they are very solid despite the unibody structure. If you look around at junk yards or at wrecked thirdgen's on the net, you will find that while the car is totalled and completely smashed, the passenger compartment is still fully intact.

I actually have personal experience with this. I hit a big, solid, 500lb deer while going 70mph on Rt. 18 in central NJ. Let me tell you, hitting a deer is like hitting a brick wall. If I were in a *****, the car would have folded like a beer can being stepped on, and I probably would hav been seriously injured. Instead, it did some body damage and thats about it. I was totally impressed with how well it held up. People ask me why I am not througly pissed off that I hit a deer and did major damage to my car.... my reasoning: becuase if I were in a car like a *****, the serious damage would have been done to me.

To sum everything up, thirdgen's are very solid and therefore safe in the event that you get into an accident.

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1989 IROC-Z
350c.i. TPI
rebuilt 700R4 with shift kit
3'' Monza Pacesetter cat back exhaust (minus the muffler)[SOUNDS OF THIS ON MY WEBPAGE]
new dual cats
3.23 Posi rear
hypertech chip
under drive pulleys
adjustable fuel pressure regulator
K&N Air Filters
Excalibur alarm, keyless entry and remote start
new:
struts, shocks, bearings, distributor, cap, rotor, alternator, battery, regulator
245 ZR16 50 Tires, Rotors and brake pads all the way around

Go to my webpage to find out more about it.
You can also see pictures, and hear sounds as well.
http://go.to/iroc-z

AOL IMer: JRShotliff

sven86berlinetta

I've heard very few bad things about 3rdgens related to crash tests and such. For the time they were released, they are very safe cars.

RB83L69

When they were released, they were considered "compact" cars, because of the passenger and cargo space. They stack up quite favorably against other "compact" cars, including the F*rd product we all love to trounce. They have good crush and crumple zones, and good reinforcement in the sides. I can't agree more with the guy that is freaked about Sport Futility Vehicles; I rarely fear more for my life than when I look out my side glass and see some dippy blonde on a mousse OD yakking on a cell phone in some one of those ridiculous useless behemoths, totally oblivious to her surroundings, with however many tons of metal pointed right straight at my brain case at 65 MPH while she's in in her invincible mode that those things seem to induce in the unsuspecting. Personally I have been in a fairly serious wreck in mine, it demolished the car (since expertly repaired) but when I came to I walked away. Of course, it wasn't a Sport Useless Vehicle coming through the window either...

Oh BTW — the crash I was in, landed me in a ditch about 20' across and 10' deep at a 35-40° angle to my direction of travel... it wadded the floor pan up pretty good in the back and drove the driver's door about 6" into the quarter panel, but in spite of all that, I think if I hadn't had 300 lbs of radio station stuff come flying up and hit me in the back of the head, I probably wouldn't even have been shaken up very bad.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."

[This message has been edited by RB83L69 (edited December 23, 2000).]

I ROCK

Well I hit a crown vic that ran a red light right on the side at about 55 mph and got spun about 200 degrees. The footwell on the left caved enough to bruise my knee but no lasting damage. The rearview mirror came off and hit me in the head which left a giant, ugly bruise but the bruise went away in about 2 days thank God. Other than that I just have neck/back pain even 2 1/2 years later and probably always will. But what has been said is true: for a car with no airbag, they hold up great. That was a full frontal collision and the entire engine bay was demolished (body panels and radiator and water pump toast) but I was basically ok and even reused the engine in another thirdgen, which still ran and was unfazed...damn 305's never die. So I'm not THAT worried in my IROC I just hope if I do get in a wreck the 305 bites it so I can get a 350 with insurance money...lol

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89 Iroc-Z LB9 305 TPI auto 2.73 posi:
3" Dynomax "cat" back,K&N filters, TB bypass, 3" pipe in place of cat, cleaned and flow-matched injectors, 170' thermo, mild ignition mods, synthetic oil, kicker sound system, soon to have 3.73 posi...

87RS402

I'm gonna change my name to tow trucker. I have seen many 3rd gens in various states of wadded-up and so long as the doors are not the point of impact you should feel safe. The worst one I have seen was wrapped around a telephone pole at 50 mph completly sideways. Result, not good. Most accidents , however, are in the front or rear and 3rd gens do quite well in that type of collision. Sub frame connectors will help to give the passenger compartment more resistance to crumple and there is already a "roll bar" designed into the rear area of the T-top using the B pillar. As always, more is better less is not.

The easiest way to survive an accident it to avoid it. Upgraded brakes, suspension and even high HP engines help to get you away from being involved.
If you want to feel completly safe go to your local peterbilt dealer and plunk down the 100k and drive off in your new semi. Face the facts if you get hit the bigger object usually wins.
As for you SUV bashers, I own and drive one. I Have never been to the scene of an accident where the SUV occupants have been seriously injured or killed. When it came time for my wife to get a new vehicle the I gave her the options of an S-10 blazer or an S-10 blazer 4X4. I now feel that she is reasnonably safe going to the grocery store and my son is protected in the event of an accident. You should look up the safty rating on these "Sport Futility Vehicles" and look at the results of a collision with one. You might put your loved ones in a SUV too.

mtx28

there are so many misconceptions about which cars are better in wrecks it annoys me... not saying anyone here directly is 'wrong' about anything(nor am i saying im an expert), im speaking in general. bigger isnt better, all the time. the car which is better built and made to absorb an impact is the one that is going to be easier on the passengers inside.. example: my brother in law has a 68 firebird. back then the belief was to put every kind of reinforcment possible behind the bumpers. yea.. this protected the car, but with the car being so unbelieveably rigid, it left no soft spots to absorb the crash. result? the car wound up ok, and the passengers got smashed up inside. my in-law took out some of the reinforcments, and what do you know? when the left front brake failed, causing him to run off the road and hit a tree, the front end crunched up absorbing the impact and he came out fine. true, suv's are safe, but dont let the size lead you to believe that that is the reason why they are.

Roshambo

A friend of mine had a 84 SC, and was going around a corner at somewhere near 60-65 and went sideways, slid off the road, and hit a tree where the front clip and door meet... he had 3 passengers, all were fine. He was bruised which is to be expected, the car was totalled, and pretty messed up, but only major thing that happened in the interior, was that the windshield shattered, and t-tops too. Lots of glass cuts, but no broken bones.. I was impressed considering what happened!

-Roshambo

IROCKZE

Thanks guys for all the info. That makes me feel better hearing that most of the time they hold up. Next question: Can an airbag off a 90-92 be retrofitted to my 85? It would have to be done correctly, no room for error (having it deploy after the impact as your head comes near the steering wheel would not work)

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85 IROC,5.0 TPI,T-Tops,fully loaded,black with red Lear-Siegler "Camaro" interior,Decal Delete,91 Bose stereo,Stage 2 Fastchip,AFPR,TB Airfoil,K&Ns,March pulleys,Alum. Driveshaft,92 police version 700r4

"The Devil drives a Camaro"

Vader

IROCKZE,

I would suggest that if you really wanted to be safe, forget the inflatable restraints. The best thing you can do (statistically) is to remain in the seat. An inflatable restraint only serves to keep the driver in a seated position to eliminate or reduce second impact forces.

The absolute best means of retaining a human body in the seat is with a multi-point belt system. In every form of auto racing, inflatable restraints are expressly prohibited and multi-point restraints are required. I've seen video of 1,800 pound Indy and F1 cars hitting immovable structures like walls and bridges at 200MPH, and the driver walks away because he stayed in the envelope, or gets helped off with a broken ankle. NASCAR vehicles are much closer in size and weight to ours, and some of these drivers have walked away from spectacular crashes that would have likely killed everyone in a "regular" passenger car.

GM itself spent untold amounts of money as early as 1969 developing and testing inflatable restraints for passenger vehicles. After years of design, engineering, and testing, their conclusion was that air bags are actually worse than good seat belts. This recommendation was reviewed by State Farm Insurance underwriters, and they agreed with the report. The data was offered to the NHTSA and the resolution was that air bags would be of no benefit. It was not until a couple of decades later when the NHTSA realized that people weren't wearing their seat belts that inflatable restraints were required. (Actually, the law requires either inflatable restraints or fully automatic seat belts. The inflatable restraints were the cheapest way to comply.)

To me, inflatable restraints are a poor substitute for a good harness, and give people a false sense of security. All of these "invincible" SUV drivers that are dying on the highways daily apparently still aren't listening.

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Later,
Vader
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"No matter how hard you try you can't stop us now"
Adobe Acrobat Reader 4.0

Vader

IROCKZE,

And another thing... Don't let the fact that there are so many taller vehicle on the road hinder you from lowering your vehicle.

I could bore you even further with the long story of the "Flying Ford Probe" and other instances I've endured, but let it suffice to say that I have avoided several accidents by handling my way out of them rather than getting tied up with the mass of mangled metal. A taller vehicle that understeers like a passenger ship would have been a part of the fray.

Don't forget that a lower vehicle is much more difficult to roll, or even lose control in cornering, than a taller one. Even drivers of 120,000 pound tractor-trailers sitting twelve feet above the road get fatally injured in accidents. I'd much rather be able to slalom around the trouble than try to survive the impact.

This all depends, of course, on the skill and practice of the driver. You'll have to spend some time with your car to get to know it's limits. One of the best training tools I've found for "novice" drivers is to find an empty snow-packed parking lot, take the car to its limits of handling, then try to recover. It is similar on dry pavement, but quite a bit more pronounced and with more feedback. Unfortunately, the dry pavement is also a bit less forgiving, but the concepts are the same.

And just to confuse the issue, there are already side door beams in our cars. That little stamped "accordian" running the length of the door is what might save your butt in a 'T'-Bone situation. You could install additional bracing, but unless you do some serious engineering, the add-ons might or might not provide any extra protection. The best thing you can do for overall structural rigidity is to install subframe connectors and a strut tower brace and/or "wonder bar" lower steering brace to tie up the weakest points in the body.

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Later,
Vader
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"No matter how hard you try you can't stop us now"
Adobe Acrobat Reader 4.0

Andy89RS

Ford Explorer Sport - braking distance from 70 mph: 231 feet

Ford Expedition - braking distance from 70 mph: 210 feet

GMC Yukon - braking distance from 70 mph: 227 feet

Chevrolet Camaro - braking distance from 70 mph: 172 feet

Chevrolet Malibu - braking distance from 70 mph: 192 feet

Pontiac Grand Prix - braking distance from 70 mph: 177 feet

I know what kind of vehicle I would feel better about sending my loved ones out in. What's so great about not being severely injured in an accident if you could have avoided it entirely?

* all braking results from Car and Driver

[This message has been edited by Andy89RS (edited December 24, 2000).]

82z

I think that 3rdgens are pretty crashworthy. I might have had an "incident" with my car and a telephone pole at ~40-45 and I walked away. I did have a little cut on my finger from the console or something. The radiator hit the fan, driver shocktower moved in a few inches, etc. Oddly enough the doors still line up fine. I think the car is totalled but I don't know yet. Seat belts really do save lives. I have looked at the inside of the doors a couple of times and they really did not seem very sturdy. I imagine a side impact would not be good. 87rs402 has the same mentality as everyone else these days(at least in se Michigan where I'm from). Get a bigger suv and to hell with everyone else. How about get off the cell phone and learn to drive? I have a friend that got hit by a Cherokee and was f'ed up. Cherokees aren't even big! I understand your concern for your family but what happens if a big suv hits a Metro or even a 3rd gen. The suv would drive right over it! The suv occupants live but the metro driver gets a tire in the face. Sorry the bigger suv/safety thing really really pisses me off mainly because I would be driven over!

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82 z28 350cid, vortec heads, comp 262h cam, Holley 600cfm carb, 2in twice pipes, MSD ignition, turbo 350 trans, 3.73 posi, manly b&m megashifter

Vortex_89rs

[IMG]http://i11.yimg.com/11/e0f39932/h/eb275db0/wreck.jpg[\IMG]
This is my friend's Z-28 after hitting a telephone pole @ 40 mph.


Vman
EDIT - Just cut and paste the addy I guess.

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1969 Camaro
383, Corvette heads, 700R4
Resto is in progress


1988 Toyota 4-Runner
aka the Parts Hauler

[This message has been edited by Vortex_89rs (edited December 24, 2000).]


[This message has been edited by Vortex_89rs (edited December 24, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Vortex_89rs (edited December 24, 2000).]

Pukka

Almost 3 years ago my car was broadsided by a toyota pickup. Impact speed was probably around 30mph, I was making a turn and he ran right into me. Passenger side qtr panel and door took most of the damage. Anyone sitting in the passenger seat would have had the **** scared out of but no serious injury. Although the door was caved in the interior area was fine

scoob8000

suv's are terrible things.. especially the soccor moms (not to be sterotypical) but ive noticed the biggest thing with theese vehilces is the drivers dont know how to properly use their mirrors.. they are used to a car, then get into a much larger vehicle with a much larger blind spot and run people off the road.. aside from that i feel very save in my thirdgen.. i used to own a 89 trans am gta that my mother would occasionally drive.. few years ago she was involved in a DUI in it where she jumped it 38 feet off a cliff and walked away.. to better this even more aside from flat tires and bent rims a busted strut and a cracked windshied the car was soon driveable.. once fixed she got another dui in it, this time involved in a head on colision a few months later with a older cavilier.. at a estimated 25mph she walked away once again, although this time i couldnt afford to fix the car, as it needed pretty much a whole front end and the frame rails were bent.. sold the car to a neighbor for 1000 bux who pulled the motor/tranny/rear end and scrapped the rest.. rest assured she is off the roads and you better believe that im the only driver of my children (cars) now.. so yes, in my opinion our cars are safe...

87RS402

Before everyone mis-quotes me some more. I do not own or will I ever own a "Mighty" SUV. I own an S-10 Blazer. If you take a second and think you'll relize that it's smaller than my camaro. It does , however , have more weight and a stronger frame and chassis. I think the ford expedition should be taken off the road because of how tall and huge it really is. The bumpers are higher up than most cars headlights. I do not have the "Get a bigger suv and to hell with everyone else" mentality. S-10 , you know, read compact SUV. I live in an area where we get snow several inches at a time and the nightly freeze is exactly that nightly. I have to own a 4X4 to get to and from work safely in all types of weather.

I speak from hands on experience, I drive a tow truck for a living 7 days a week. I have already worked 2 rollovers today from people driving too fast on the ice. Everyone walked away from both thanks to modern safety thats built into late model cars and trucks. I have also spent 6 years driving semi's and in the 675,000 miles I've never been in an accident or caused one. The place I feel the safest is in the seat of a peterbilt. That's not because i have the "To hell with everyone" thought's it's because if someone loses control of there vehicle how bad do you think I'm going to get hurt?
I do what I have to do to protect my family from everone else on the road. If that is putting them in a ford expedition I will (wouldn't you?). That does not mean my wife or I drive 90 mph on the cell or even have a cell. My wife has a clean driving record and actually drives at the speed limit +/- 5 mph depending on road conditions.

Let's try to keep on topic and not comment on what mentality we assume someone has.

Hellraiser

**You should look up the safty rating on these "Sport Futility Vehicles" and look at the results of a collision with one. You might put your loved ones in a SUV too.[/**

Of course, by that line of reasoning the ABSOLUTE safest car we should all be driving would be a 1976 buick electra 225. (or some other 80' long monstrosity). the bumper alone provides more protection than your SUV.=) Bottom line is drive safe, and aware and you will be fine. As will those around you....


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IROCKZE

Again guys thanks for all the great information. Vader you never cease to amaze me with your knowledge. I do remember the "Flying Ford Probe" story from a past post.
I think we all need to remember that "driver responsibility" plays a major role. I unfortunately have seen ditzy blondes on cell fones behind the wheel of 5.7 F-Bodies as well as big SUVs.

87RS402 you have a tough job and you have my respect for doing it.

With the input from this thread, my "safety to-do" list for my car will be 5pt. harnesses,double-diamond style SFCs,STB brace,4 pt. roll bar,deep Recaro seats,13" Baer brakes,and on second thought some Eibach springs.

Happy Holidays to everyone.


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85 IROC,5.0 TPI,T-Tops,fully loaded,black with red Lear-Siegler "Camaro" interior,Decal Delete,91 Bose stereo,Stage 2 Fastchip,AFPR,TB Airfoil,K&Ns,March pulleys,Alum. Driveshaft,92 police version 700r4

"The Devil drives a Camaro"

Bort62

Well, I was Involved in a head on Collision at 45 MPH each With a Nissan Maxima With My 79 Firebird. Both cars totalled, I got a broken jaw and some Minor buts and bruises, Pretty bad. The Other guy is paralized neck Down.

I would have walked away if The 20 year Old Seatbelt Had worked.

Admittedly, that 2nd Gen had alot more Steel in it than The 3rds, But It stilL held Up Way beyond expectations.



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60 Ranchero - Project ( Money Hole )
85 Sport Coupe LG4 - Daily Driver

Livin' the Stereotype

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Vader has a good point about our cars' ability not to roll so easily. Being as low as they are definitely helps in that aspect. I was doing some canyon driving in my 89 on a road here that leads up to a ski resort. I came around a 90 degree curve at about 60 mph and hit a patch of gravel. It put me into a perfect sideways slide on dry pavement, and the only result was some really cool looking sideways tire marks on the road! Thank God I stopped sliding before the dropoff though! Rolling one of these cars is about the last concern on my mind. The only way to really accomplish that would be to overturn in a ditch I guess. I guess I got really lucky with my first 69 Camaro I owned too. It got T-boned on the driver's side between the front wheel and the firewall by an 86 T-Bird going about 65 mph. I wasn't even wearing a seat belt, and I walked away with a couple of bruises. The cop at the scene refused to believe that I was the driver of the Camaro when he first arrived! My passenger probably would've benefitted from a seat belt though. He got flung towards my side of the car from the impact, and his head hit the ignition key in my steering column, actually snapping it off. He also hit my Hurst shifter so hard with his knee, he broke it to where it way laying on its side. Fortunately, he was ok too after getting stitches in his forehead and his knee. It bent the subframe of the car enough to crush the driver's side header, and break both motor mounts and the tranny mount. My dash had a nice upwards V shape to it, my firewall caved inward, and my floorboards had more waves in them than the ocean! Each accident is different from the next one, but I think our cars hold up pretty well. I'd have to agree that a Peterbilt is probably your best bet, and you sure as hell don't want to be in a Geo Metro when someone decides they feel like running you over! I guess what you drive isn't as important as being aware of keeping a safe distance from they type of people who can't walk and chew gum at the same time, but think they can operate a vehicle better than anyone else! Be careful out there guys!



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89RS w/350 TPI; 69RS/SS w/450 HP 350/Muncie 4-Speed "Too weird to live, too rare to die."

Christos

Well, My friend in denver owned a 1988 Z/28, and crashed it.

He was driving home one night, and hit a patch fo black ice, and drove right into a huge ditch, over a bridge he said. his car totally flipped over, on to the t-tops and hood.

He said the t-tops cracked, but there was minimal damage done to the top of the car, even after falling down many yards, and falling on the hood.

He even said when they towed the car away, they attatched a crane to the small "bar" of body that goes between the t-tops and the rear windshield.

Sounds impressive to me.

Also, when i moved here to california, i mad the worse driving mistake i have ever made. Normally, i like to drive quick, but smartly i like to know the areas first, so i will be prepaired for anything might happen, and just know the road good.

Well, i had to go and turn like a madman, at like 45 mph into a small little cement sidewalk rimmed driveway.

Needless to say, once i saw how small the opening was, i stupidly overcompensated the turn, and lots traction, driving diagonally up onto the curb, and through a street sign, to finally ram into a light pole, and bounce back 4 feet.


I bent the frame. really sucked. got it repaired for 1,100, which isn't too bad. luckily i called around, some places wanted over 4 K for the fix, and said they thought it was "a bad idea on a car that old".

Mustang drivers...

But all in all, after the frame pull, and a replacement rim (about ripped the old rim in half) i have some chipped paint on the front of the car, and a small little crack in the nose.

Pretty durable if you ask me!

wm_sorg

Could not find the flying ford probe post through the search utility. Would like to read it. Where can I find it?

Vader

WM,

Unfortunately, the archives are not loading anything dated before July 23, 2000. Apparently the archives prior to the shutdown of the board were not loaded to the server.

In Readers' Digest condensed form, I was headed east one morning on the Kennedy, travelling into the city in four lanes of 75 MPH traffic, clear skies, dry pavement, excellent visibility, moderate spring weather (55-60°F). A makeup-applying, cell-talking, breakfast-eating, radio-tuning blonde was in the lane just left of me, probably pulling on her nylons when she decided to cut out from behind the van she was following too closely. Her Probe cut into my lane - the extra four feet of space gave her "plenty of room". I immediately dropped the throttle to make space. When her Probe got out from behind the van and got into the turbulent air flowing off the van's large sides, it started floating upward and drifting at an angle. Its rear wheels were off the ground from the air lift about fifty feet in front of us. One of the front wheels was still in contact but she had no idea what to do. The rear started to drift to the right, pointing the car to the left. The rear finally settled down, and the Probe shot left under the right side of the van. The unsuspecting van driver was hurtled up and over the Ford/Mazda when his rear tire crushed the hood of the little car. The van flipped onto its left side and slid along the retaining wall while the Probe was sliding at an angle pushing the van father left onto the wall.

While all this was taking place, I had stabbed the brakes and picked the opening I had left to the right. As a matter of habit, I always try to leave myself a way ouy in case some moron does something stupid in front of me. I hate getting boxed in by drivers who like to emulate sardines. I weaved my car into the next lane, stabbed the brakes again and cut behind another car into the far right lane, then accellerated to the opening at the right shoulder.

The car that had been stuck to my rear bumper (freakin' idiot) when the Probe got airborne had already got tangled in the wreck because he had no clue as to what was in front of me. Everyone else that just slammed their brakes either slid sideways or got dinged from the rear or front, but they were minor bumps and wrinkles. Everyone in the right two lanes stayed out of the tangle for the most part.

The fact that I had a responsive, good handling vehicle with enough extra power to take an opening saved my butt, and that of the guy riding with me. The funniest thing about the whole mess was that the engineer riding with me to our meeting was so calm. After stopping at the right shoulder, he mildly said "Wow, did you see that?" DU-UH! I guess all those long conversations with Bob Marley in the '60s left him just a little too "mellow".

The van driver was O.K. but stunned and shaken. He is now a firm believer in seat belts, I'm sure. The blonde in the Probe never did get her panties on, but survived. Everyone else got a few bumps and bruises. I drove away, glad I was at least paying attention and didn't soil myself.

There are several important lessons here:
1. Keep your vehicle in good operating condition;
2. Stay alert, which means drive the car instead of forking around with all your toys and gadgets;
3. Give others plenty of space, because they will screw up sooner or later.
4. Always try to leave yourself at least one way out of your lane - don't get boxed in. Flying in formation is acceptable at 15,000 feet because you can climb or dive - but not on the roads.
5. Finally, don't drive a POS car that has front wheel drive and no weight in the rear at more than 45 MPH unless you like a "thrill" once in while. Seriously, be alert to the fact that not all vehicles on the road are really worthy of travelling at the speeds they are driven. That "sporty" Ford/Mazda Probe showed me just how well designed most cars are. Expect more of this kind of thing as time goes on and cars get worse and worse weight distribution. I can't wait to encounter one of those little electric pieces of crap cruising along at 70 with all those batteries in the front and a boat trailer axle in the rear holding the tires down.

Sorry to bore those of you who have seen this before, but it might be beneficial to some of us.

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Later,
Vader
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"No matter how hard you try you can't stop us now"
Adobe Acrobat Reader 4.0

wm_sorg

Good read. Thanks Vader!

mostafa3k

Some of you have seen my totalled topic, but I'll put it through again on this thread.

Five days ago, on my way to work (valet car parking, i love my job) I was following a lady in a mini-van, who was following a lady in a BMW, all in the fast lane on 101. After a while the mini-van started hitting her brakes erratically. None of the other lanes were slowing down though, and as a caught a glimpse out of the side there was no backed up traffic.

So along we go for about a 1/4 mile at about 25-30 mph. I had a good 35-45 ft. between me and the car in front of me. I got pissed because i was almost sure there was no traffic. So i check my mirror to switch lanes, of course it seems clear, but right now i'm so paranoid about the traffic that i don't trust my spot-mirrors (blind spot mirrors). So i wait till she lets off the brakes again and i immediately turn my head to check my blind spot and i tapped the accelerator as i started my switch. At which point i turn back around while mid-lane to find that she came to a complete stop! My front end is about 2 inches from her rear end and i barely have enough time to let off the gas. After i hit her i was POSITIVE there was no traffic in front of the BMW. She came to a complete stop in the middle of the freeway.

The next thing i saw was my hood fold straight up as I hit the van and my car became a little more compact. My airbag did not deploy, but the bucket seats saved my face from getting pasted aganst the steering wheel. I was fine and w/o a scratch. I then watched the idiot in the van in front of me roll a whole 25 ft at about 3 mph into the BMW in front of her. This dumbass in the BMW was practically waiting for the mini-van to rear-end her. So we all pull off the road somewhat, my car could hardly make a left turn due to the fender protruding into my suspension.

I get out of my car immediately, but my door required a little more pressure to open, as i opened it, it further screwed up the fender which was tucked under the edge of the door panel. I ran to the mini-van thinking there might be kids in there. It was just one lady. Then i ran to the BMW and i find that (excuse my language) stupid dumbass bitch on her cell-phone. Case solved. Idiots who can't drive and talk at the same time, i can't wait to get out of southern CA. I swear, i've never seen dumber drivers in my life.

Back to my car, the front bumper is just screwed royally, the fender is scrap, the hood folded up (they're designed that way) and my headlight was hanging on a wire. Alone with battery acid all over. I couldn't tell any mechanical damage aside from being able to drive the car about 1/2 a mile off the freeway. But i couldn't make a left turn without the whole car going up and down. And the whole way off, i heard a whirring sound which i think was the metal rubbing on my tire.

So to answer your question. Are third-gens safe for people? Hell yes. I've driven every car there is at work, i have no doubt that if i were in a jap car, i'd be in the hospital right now, the flat seats would have flung me through the windshield. Bottom line, the car prolly won't survive, but you sure as hell will. Don't underestimate the safety of these cars.

Gta-Paladin

****, after reading posts like that i'm scared. It makes you really think twice about every other idiot on the road... Personally i hate tall vehichles, they create visibility problems.. Any time im near another car im going to be paranoid now.. Is SHE on the phone =? And now im going to get some woman loving tree hugging man hating dykes on my *** .. As you can see i've had yet Another wonderfull day at work Gentlemen, and Ladies... But all i really need to do to feel better is run into the Garage and sit in My Bird gessh After reading **** like that im glad it's winter and she's away

Gta-Paladin

****, after reading posts like that i'm scared. It makes you really think twice about every other idiot on the road... Personally i hate tall vehichles, they create visibility problems.. Any time im near another car im going to be paranoid now.. Is SHE on the phone =? And now im going to get some woman loving tree hugging man hating dykes on my *** .. As you can see i've had yet Another wonderfull day at work Gentlemen, and Ladies... But all i really need to do to feel better is run into the Garage and sit in My Bird gessh After reading **** like that im glad it's winter and she's away

El Guapo

As with everyone, l post a resounding YES to the question of "Are our cars safe?"

To those of you that are posting "lm so scared now" posts, get over it.

The world we live in, drive in is a dangerous place. DANGEROUS. Let me tell you some horror stories that will make you afraid to walk under power lines. Let me tell you some stories (All true mind you) that will make you afraid to stop at a gas station. Let me tell you some stories that will make you afraid to eat any food from a grocery store. Let me tell you stories that will make you cringe everytime you hear an airplane overhead. etc.

Is it dangerous to drive these days. Yes. Is worrying/whinning about it gonna help? No. Listen to Vader, he had some good ideas. Take a defensive driving class. Do something to make yourself feel more confident in your driving skills.

A lot of accidents are cause be people who got careless. Mine included. So stay alert, and pay attention to your driving skills. You probably wont need them 99% of the time, but like a parachute, if its not there when you need them, you may never need them again, since you may be driving a vehicle thats not so crashworthy. Now give that some heavy thought.

Do l feel l will never get into an accident because of my driving skills? No. But do l notice the ditzy blonde beside me? Yes. So what do l do? l either slow down or speed up to get away from the ditzy blonde. Problem solved. Simple as that. No need to worry about her sideswiping me now. And so on and so forth.

Bottom line, whatch you environment and act rather that react.

l leave you with this thought. lts paraphrased from a flying quote. "A superior driver will try to use his superior intellect to avoid situations that would require his superior driving skills."

Clayton

[This message has been edited by El Guapo (edited December 27, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by El Guapo (edited December 27, 2000).]

dude12387

check out this site http://towzone.com/repeaters/repeaters.html
its not all third gens, but this is just f-bodies

johnyIROC

I've also got a thirdgen survivor story...

It was about two weeks after I got my car on the road, a former friend of mine (drove a Honda CRX) and I decided to road trip our new cars to Grand Bend (Canada's version of daytona beach). We made it there just fine, and in good time.

On the way into town we pulled up to a line of cars about 5 miles long that wasn't moving at all (all headed for the beach). I thought I knew a short cut so we turned off onto a side road that had a bunch of yuppie cottages on it. My short-cut didn't work out, it turned out to be a dead end, so we turned around and blasted back toward the main road (I was following the CRX at this point). On the way back to the main road I saw an old man standing in the middle of the road. As we got closer, the guy in the Honda came to a stop as not to run the old guy over. When he stopped the old guy ran up to his window, and started freaking out on him... yelling some **** about how we can't be racing up and down his road. (At that time my exhaust system consisted of headers only so it was frickin loud). The old guy and my former friend exchanged words and soon after the old guy reached in and punched him in the head. I was freaked, so I put my car back in gear and got ready to go. Next the Honda took off, when he did that, the old guy wheeled a golf ball off the side of the honda (aiming for the driver), and then pulled out another one and started winding up to crack it off the side of my head. I ducked and put the pedal to the floor....

Everything would have been just fine but in the mean time the driver of the Honda decided to stop his car because he inteneded to get out and fight this derranged old man, but he failed to realize that I was about 20 feet behind him doing a wheel stand. Just as he was about to get out, my Z28 slammed into the back of the CRX. His sub box flew straight up, and busted through his back window, and then the whole back of the Honda buckled until it was touching the back of the front seats. I had no idea what happened... I assumed the way was clear, and was ducking in self defense. I quickly got out of my car and made sure he was alright.... after the situation stabalized, we checked out the cars while waiting for the cops to get there. In the end the CRX was a write off, and my car had nothing but paint damage. I felt bad, I wished that it was my car that was totalled, and even offered to give him my car, but the damage was done.

We spent the better part of our 24 week-end in the back of a cop car. I was facing multiple charges until they questioned the old guy. The old guy confessed to assaulting us, and the cop pressured all parties into dropping the charges so he wouldn't have to do paperwork.

All in all, it was one of the worst days in my life, I never suffered any material concequences, but I learned my lesson. And most importantly I will never get in another ***** piece of sh*t after seeing that mess.

IROCKZE

Dude1287, thanks for that site!! It's amazing that in *most* of those pics the passenger compartment is still there.

JohnyIROC, I have a friend with a CRX...one word to describe it...SMALL. I like my BIG 3rd Gen!

I realized two more good safety features of our cars...the full metal front inner fender/shock tower structure (vs. plastic inner fenders on many 80s GM cars), and the gas tank being well away from the rear bumper. That deep storage well is a nice barrier between it and the back of the car.

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85 IROC,5.0 TPI,T-Tops,fully loaded,black with red Lear-Siegler "Camaro" interior,Decal Delete,91 Bose stereo,Stage 2 Fastchip,AFPR,TB Airfoil,K&Ns,March pulleys,Alum. Driveshaft,92 police version 700r4

"The Devil drives a Camaro"

KS91Z28

I know you all are probably getting tired of the survivor stories, but for some reason I still feel compelled to put mine out here.

I was driving my first 91 Z28 down the highway and as I was coming towards a light, a guy in a Ford duallie pulled out in front of me. I had no time to react. I had enough time to say "OH SH*T!" and that was about it. I hit him doin about 55 MPH. A friend of mine was behind me and said the back end of my car came up off the ground about 4 feet. The floor of the car buckled downwards and the roof buckled upwards so far there was a 1 foot gap between the window and the roof with the window all the way up. I had my seat belt on and the air bag deployed. Once the car landed, I started surveying the damage. All I had was a little bit of glass in my hand from when the air bag blew my hand off the steering wheel and into the windshield. Oh, and of course I had a sore neck for the next couple of weeks. The witnesses just about fell over when they saw me get out of the car and walk around.

The truck's front wheel was shoved up about halfway under the truck. his truck was probably fixed, while my car was totalled of course.

Overall, I would have to say that 3rd gens are pretty safe. Mine did one hell of a job of protecting me.

CamaroZ_85

well the **** who made that website with the crash pictures is obviosly a moron. what he fails to realize is that there are many many F-bodies on the road, so you are bound to find pictures of them crashed. i bet if i collected pictures of Accords, i could out-do him any day. like someone pointed out, the passenger compartment in most pictures is still intact. and i would say that (with wearing a seatbelt) most of those people survived, except maybe for the last one...god only knows what happened to that car. it all coems down to being safe yourself, and aware of your surroundings. having a well maintained car (ie good suspension/brakes/tires) is also key to being safe in an accident. i like to think i can handle my car well, it's definately a good thing to work on. but you can never account for other people...like some drunk dumbass driving on the wrong side of the road, around a bend where you cant see him....or someone jumping out of a line of traffic right in front of you....or someone blowing a stop sign or red light. i must say i am guilty, as most of us are, of doing stupid things. i frequently talk on my cell phone while driving. i dont have 20 minute conversations...just somethin like "Where are you??? Come to ray's house we're chillin" etc. but thats still dangerous. i just drive slow and take it easy when i do that. i've hot rodded around freeways as well as side streets, weaving in and out of cars etc. that was more when i first started driving. im 19 now, 2 years of driving experience (not much at all) but enough to realize that i NEED to slow down, and take that extra few seconds to switch a lane, or wait for a better opening to go aroudn someone, instead of laying on the gas to get in front of a speeding semi. your safety while driving is just a mix of your driving, your car's safety, and what other people do around you and your reactions to that. just stay alert and stay smart.

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350, Comp 262, Edelbrock Performer intake 600 cfm carb and exhaust, headers
-JVC, Eclipse, Pioneer, MTX, Phoenix Gold, Planet Audio

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Hey El Guapo, very wise advice indeed. That's what I try to do also. Get away from the problem(i.e. retarded driver) before it becomes your personal problem(i.e. they run right into you). Hey JohnnyIroc, two things. One, a CRX already looks like it's been a** ended by a semi before it's even been hit. Two, the cops would've had to physically separate me from that old man by the time they arrived. I would've sent him on an express trip to the nearest hospital for pulling that kinda crap!



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89RS w/350 TPI; 69RS/SS w/450 HP 350/Muncie 4-Speed "Too weird to live, too rare to die."

Dave M

Here's another illustration for how well our cars hold up in an accident... at least for the passengers.

There was an IROc running from the police around here about a year or so ago, on one of the interstates. It was estimated he was doing about 90 mph when he swerved to avoid another car, caught the embankment on the side of the road, causing him to lose control. The car rolled several times, I think the count was three, and came to rest on its roof. Think the chase was over? NAH, the driver and passenger inside survived well enough to continue the chase on foot through the woods. can't remember if the police ever caught them or not....

On another note, i just want to reitterate what others hae said. I feel extremely safe when in my GTA, the handling, braking and power have kept me out of more than one accident. However, I don't believe the car you're driving makes as big of a difference than how your driving that car does. You have to adjust your driving style to fit the car your in, and I think that's the problem with most SUV drivers. It's not the vehicles themselves, but the fact that the drivers have never driven a vehicle that large and cumbersome,have a false sense of security or are just unaware of the vehicle capabilities and limitations. In winter, I see more SUV's stuck in the snow or rolled over in ditches than I do regular cars. I think it's all because the drivers just have that mentality that there SUV is the safest thing on the road and should be able to handle the conditions. What they don't realize is you still have to adjust you're driving for conditions, no matter what car you're in. For the past 6 winters I've driven a rear wheel drive sports car in the snow without an accident or without getting stuck to the point that I've had to abandon the car.

Dave M
88 GTA

CamaroZ_85

i agree with dave, i always see SUV's flying around in the snow like maniacs. the 4 wheel drive may get you moving, but it sure as hell isn't gonna stop you or give you much more manuvering. i personally love to drive in the snow. it's like a challenge...just something to work through. and when i find an empty lot, i like to have fun. donuts kick *** . we're supposed to get a big storm tonight and i cant wait. but of course you need to remember safety comes first and some unexpected **** can happen in bad weather. you need to know what you're doing, what might happen, and expect anything.

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350, Comp 262, Edelbrock Performer intake 600 cfm carb and exhaust, headers
-JVC, Eclipse, Pioneer, MTX, Phoenix Gold, Planet Audio

88irocz28

All right, so I am heading home from Memphis to Jonesboro. I've already seen on TV the burning wreckage of a Camaro that got run over by a semi on the I-40 bridge - not a pretty sight. Later on US 63 I come across this Expedition that I want to pass but the damn thing's veering from the right lane into the left again and again. I try to come up with a hypothesis to explain why the SUV's running all over the road. Hmm, maybe the driver's drunk. Nah, it's only 12PM. Maybe it's a soccer mom trying to keep her brood in line, but I don't see any heads anywhere. Maybe it's a guy at the receiving end of some oral pleasure. Finally, when the SUV seemed like it wouldn't veer out of the lane, I nailed the gas and passed through. A little while later, the Expedition came up behind probably doing 90+mph. I was in the left lane but it passed me anyway from the right. It turned out to be a ditzy blond who didn't have much idea what the vehicle was doing on the road. Although I don't know why she was weaving in and out, I wouldn't be surprised if she was busy on her cell phone or putting on her making or fixing her hair or something.

It's people like her who cause wrecks in the first place. I bet she could turn a bicycle into a lethal weapon.

And about that wreck on I-40; there were two women in the Camaro. Passers-by managed to pull the driver free of the wreckage just before it was completely engulfed in flames. The passenger didn't make it. The car had apparently experienced mechanical trouble on the bridge where emergency lanes have been closed off for repair/maintenance work on the span. While other cars swerved around the crippled vehicle, the tandem semi just plowed right into it. Once again, the passenger compartment held up reasonably well considering that the car got rear-ended by a 60mph 20 ton projectile. The rear end was crumpled up like a beer can and the b-pillar sheared clean from the body on the driver's side.

It was a terrible accident, the likes of which I hope nobody ever has to experience.

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'88 IROC 305 TPI
Gutted airboxes
160 degree T-stat
Advanced base TPS voltage
Relocated IAT sensor
Momo steering wheel
Ram-air setup coming soon
Flowmaster muffler
Taylor SpiroPro wires
Accel cap and rotor

Vader

Dave M summarizes it well. It isn't the vehicle that is inherently dangerous. All vehicles can be either safe or dangerous. It's a lot like the philosophical battle over firearms. Cars don't cause accidents - people cause accidents. An Abrams M1-A1 should be a very safe vehicle to drive - right? Tell that to all the TCs that get thrown out of the hatch on those quick stops.

If you want to eliminate the risk, take everyones' vehicles away from them. Some members of the DNC will be very pleased. Tell the tree-hugging, rainbow-sticking, bleeding-heart, "progressive" morons that they are stupid enough to find other effective means to kill themselves.

A moron is still a moron, and, unfortunately, they have some rights too. Darwin was right, so be alert.


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Later,
Vader
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"No matter how hard you try you can't stop us now"
Adobe Acrobat Reader 4.0

85IROCTPI

check out the pics section at my website (addy in sig) their are pics of some totally destroyed thirdgen camaro's but the passsneger compartment is intact in every one of them, most of these people walked away with not much more that scratches and a headache.

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www.thirdgenfbody.com - Leading the F-body into a 5th generation

85 IROC-Z
305 TPI
Bone Stock
Dead for the winter

"Their's nuthing like the sound of a small block chevy and a bass thumping sound system in the morning" - me


For those of you who do not know how to post pics, e-mail me your pics and your mb screen name and i'll post the pics on my site at www.thirdgenfbody.com/pics/yourname then post them on the message board for you, but please keep them small. I recently recived 7 diffrent emails from a unidentified user that crashed my comp - sharp85iroc@email.msn.com

LottaBallsCamaro

About a year ago a friend of mine decided to run a red light while racing a *****. he was doing about 70 in a 45 zone and figured if he blew through the stoplight a couple of seconds late hed be fine. he was Tboned by a fully loaded semi doing about 50. The car was a totally suped up 88 IROC with a full roll cage. His car did a 360 went down into a decent size ditch, flipped front over rear and slid about another 20 feet into a tree. He walked away. The rollcage held up so good it was used again in his next camaro. If he didnt have a roll cage he would've died. Thats why no matter what I use my camaro for it'll have at least a roll bar and airbag

LottaBallsCamaro

I feel very safe in my Camaro. I mean we got over a foot of car in front of the radiator, and then that big-*** hood is going to protect you, too. Our cars can brake better, handle better, and look a hell of a lot better doing it!

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91 Camaro RS, 305 TBI
No mods yet...Hopefully:
Convert to dual-cat with headers and Borla catback exhaust.
Edelbrock MPFI system.
RAM air hood & Z28 wing.
Z28 cam.
ABS system.
Positraction rearend with rear disc brakes.
Rebuilt front and rearend suspension with polygraphite bushings.
Strutbrace.
Rollbar.

Gumby

Only problem with a 3rd gen in a crash is the stock sub frame.

smack a pole just right and the car will ripe in half real easy.
And mess up anyone in the back seat pretty good.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

3 years ago when I was in high school a couple of my buddies decided to race. We had off campus lunch so during lunch they decided to race. A L98 TPI camaro versus a 5.0 mustang. Only problem is they decided to race on a street with a divided median (with lots of crossovers), and telephone poles on the right hand side. To make a long story short the camaro was in the right hand lane, a car pulled across the road in front of him. He braked hard, lost control, wrapped the passenger side around a pole doing about 80. The passenger was killed instantly.

These cars don't stand up too well to side impacts into telephone poles @ 80.