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Old 05-18-2004, 09:10 PM   #1
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Head casting....

You must have a head the size of... no wait...

Ok, The motor in the GTA has a nice knock in it. Don't loan out your cars boys and girls!

So I'm plying through the various mounds of junk in the garage and shed and find a few things.

1. 354434.....75-79...262/267/305...60cc chambers
2. 33417369...90-up...350..........Gen.I Goodwrench crate motor, "Hecho en Mexico", 76cc (tequila!!)
3. Scat 383 cast crank (for 2 pc.)
4. 2 1 pc. 350 4 bolt truck blocks (w/ provisions cast)
5. 1 2pc. 350 4 bolt truck block
6. 3 sets stock con rods
7. 1 set clearanced 5.7 con rods for a 383 w/ arp crap on 'em
8. 2 sets stock dish pistons
9. Melling stock oil pump
10. 2 stock TPI baseplates and runners('89)

I'm listing everything b/c, well I'm a tad upset and it's helping me think. The motor is... was... the stock bottom end, TFS TW gen 1 heads, TPIS big mouth, AS&M LT runners with a matched plenum and a stock TB w/ airfoil all going into coated edel headers to a 3" single exhaust. I really don't remember the cam in it. Am I forgetting anything?

Ok, here is the questions...

1. In the three threads I have found on the 434 heads, no one has mentioned if they are crap or have potential. I would appreciate any knowledge in this area.

2. The 369's from what I have gathered are absolute ****. I'd like a confirmation or two and then they go into the smelting heap.

3. The TFS TW gen 1's - looking at the list above, me thinks I'll be putting together a 383. Has anyone dropped these heads onto a 383? How did you make out? Combo? Or should I bite the bullet and try some other heads (be advised I really like these heads)? I'm most likely going to stick with the induction I have as it aint bad and it wont cost me a penny.

Also, I think I'll be pulling the motor out of the 'burban for the GTA for the summer. And I think it may be about time to put something else in it anyway, so I'm probably going to be putting together another motor for kicks. As the money allows anyway. Anyone want to come by for a few beers? Thanks for the vent!
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Old 05-21-2004, 07:15 PM   #2
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O Horned Highness of Hades,

I would agree on at least two of the three indictments you present in the case of the SBC cylinder head vs. 3-3/4" strokes (or almost any other stroke, for that matter). I must abstain from passing any judgement on the third.

The '434 heads are '70s "smogger" stuff, smaller chambers, true, but very smallish valves and subsequently smallish port runners. There may not be enough material in the correct locations to make them flow adequately for even a 305.

The '369 "bocas del cylindros" are probably best left on that side of the border. Since someone has already paid to ship them here, there's no sense wasting any more $6/per gallon fuel on sending them back. If you're a fishing enthusiast, they'd make great mud anchors. Just don't use too high a quality rope as an anchor line, as you'll be cutting most of it away when finished.

As for the characterizartion of either or both of those castings being excrement, I must compel you to retract that implication. Logic would dictate that any such feces would have to flow from its host before it could be labelled as you describe. Since neither of those designs ever had any semblance of something that could actually flow, they can therefore not be what you suggest.

Sorry, I can't offer anything but pure conjecture on the TFS heads, but, in my opinion, they are likely the best choice of the three presented in evidence.

The TPI setup may restrict the bigger inch setup somewhat, but as a starter, the price is right, and it certainly won't do any harm.
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Old 05-21-2004, 07:51 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vader
...As for the characterizartion of either or both of those castings being excrement, I must compel you to retract that implication. Logic would dictate that any such feces would have to flow from its host before it could be labelled as you describe. Since neither of those designs ever had any semblance of something that could actually flow, they can therefore not be what you suggest. ...
Ah... O Child of the deep nether regions of Darkness, Bane to the children of Light ... you must revisit your logic stated above and reminisce from whence the material of said 'excrement' begins.
Is it not from the bowels of the Earth of which we struggle to control? Nevertheless, I meant no disparity to our Mother Earth, rather I would like to direct my disrelishment to the myopic engineers who devised said ‘excrement’.
Now I ask you, can you not accept that the characterization is correct if you consider that these 'designs' came from the very inactive bowels of their minds? Did they not flow, both literally and figuratively at some point or the other?
Besides, since when has Mexican iron been anything but 'mierda' or if I were to feel in an enlightened mood 'heces'.
I again reiterate ****e! (for more than one reason)
Anchor you say? Well I do relish fishing. Mayhap I shall sunder them in twain and use them thus. Or smelt the bloody things for casting.

Ok, enough fun, well, for now at least. I swore I thought someone had done the 383 and TFS G1 heads, but G1 is a tad hard to search for, maybe when I have some more time I'll do a few different searches.
Yes, the TPI will be a bit restrictive, but no time to play with set ups. Besides, the setup looks stock. (read: Click the image to open in full size. FUNClick the image to open in full size. )
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Old 05-28-2004, 09:31 PM   #4
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Ok, let me revisit this. We may be tossing together a few motors this summer. If the 434's had the valves changed and mayhap a nice cnc port job, or extensive hand porting, would they be ok for a 355?

I can't really find a runner cc on these, however, should this go on another TPI engine, say in a 70's plastic pig, it should be good for a boost in the RPM range and still have the tendancy for heavy torque down low yes?

I have only seen these things once, and IIRC Aeroquip uses these castings for their iron CNC heads w 2.02 sets. I may even still have a set of theirs floating at my Dad's house. Sad.

And then there are certain elements which are tempting me to the even darker side... Turbo!!

Bastards!
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Old 05-28-2004, 10:47 PM   #5
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got a set of 434's with 2.02 1.60's in em, and the work just fine on a 350.
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Old 05-28-2004, 11:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Devil
Ok, let me revisit this. We may be tossing together a few motors this summer. If the 434's had the valves changed and mayhap a nice cnc port job, or extensive hand porting, would they be ok for a 355?
Consider the cost of machine work and parts to aftermarket CI heads...I think you'd be money and HP ahead giong in another direction.
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Old 05-29-2004, 01:05 AM   #7
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alright ive heard it all now if every head out there except a few that you guys like are "70s smogger heads" then no wonder people like sportsman and edelbrock and other head manufacturers are making a bundle off you guys your all brain washed the 434 casting is a small head stock but with a very small amount of work they are a very nice set of heads that will help bump up compression and give awsome flow to any small block chevy do some searching and you will find that it isnt to expensive to have a set of heads reworked at a shop ljnowell is running a set of 434 casting heads right now with 2.02 1.60 valves and they are awsome heads
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Old 05-29-2004, 01:07 AM   #8
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heres another
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Old 05-29-2004, 01:07 AM   #9
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these are pics of the heads he is running on his car
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Old 05-29-2004, 07:26 AM   #10
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I have an old set of 76cc 1.72/1.50's that I replace with 64cc edelbrock aluminum 2.02/1.60's. I'm using the old heads as wheel chocks They work real nice like.
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Old 05-29-2004, 08:27 AM   #11
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Thats a whole other story. With chambers that big, you could fill it with water and take a bath.
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Old 05-29-2004, 10:34 AM   #12
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yeah im not trying to say that all the older heads are good at all there are quite a few of them that are junk but anything that has 64cc or less and your doin great and you can have 2.02 1.60 valves installed into then a simple port and polish and itll run perfectly fine as for the aftermarket heads i wouldnt buy a pair of em simply because of cost$$$$$$$ their to damn expensive compared to haveing the machine work done to a good older set of heads and comming up with something for about half the price and just as good

as for your wheel chocks krly79 those are only good for pretty much what your using them for..lol...unless your looking for a low compression build then your heads are decent enough to build up
unless their cracked thou i wouldnt use them that way theres allways some one looking for a set of heads out there man let em go on ebay or something
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Old 05-29-2004, 12:15 PM   #13
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434s are thin "lightweight" castings with the usual smogger 305 & 350 exhaust port problems.... I'd guess if you weren't looking for any kind of big power numbers or anything, and didn't go too crazy on the porting, they might be OK.

I'm astounded that anybody has actually got a set of those to run with 2.02"/1.6" valves in them.... most all of that type of casting tends to crack between the seats when you do that, because the casting is already so thin there. I guess once in a while you can get lucky.

I sure wouldn't spend any money on them, if I was building something; the trouble and expense of curing the disappointment would outweigh the $50 or $100 savings on a set of more suitable cores.
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Old 05-29-2004, 12:28 PM   #14
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Actually its not uncommon at all for 434 castings to hold those big valves. There are many companies that sell that particular casting with the bigger valves. And, they can support some pretty good HP numbers. Not gonna compare them to aftermarket aluminum or anything like that, that would be downright silly. But it is kind of funny to hear people say that there are only three good casting numbers of heads, and that all else is junk. I wonder what people did back before you could buy all these nice new aftermarket heads, I guess there were no fast cars or high powered engines. Not the best, but certainly not the worst, and it will do the trick.
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Old 05-29-2004, 01:06 PM   #15
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What we all did back then was to throw the smogger heads in the garbage, and go find the good castings. Of course, it was alot easier to find the better castings, since there were lots of the cars that had them in the junkyards; it's a little harder these days, now that all of us geezers have picked them over pretty good, and the ones we missed have most all been crushed.... and if we wanted the REALLY hot stuff and had unlimited funds, we went to the dealer and bought a set of 292s with angle plugs.

Instinct tells me that 434 castings haven't improved in quality any since the days when they were new, when we could ALWAYS, EVERY TIME, WITH NO OTHER POSSIBLE OUTCOME, build a better-running engine that produced more power by using better head castings than any of the smoggers; and not have to worry about reliability issues. It's easy to say "they make good power", if you're in a vacuum and don't use anything to compare them against; but it's alot tougher to swallow putting $1000 of port work, big valves, etc. etc. etc. into a set of junk, and then get totally smoked by somebody that just did a little better due diligence on castings and got 10% more power for the same money. Kind of makes you feel stewpid.
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Old 05-29-2004, 01:11 PM   #16
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I agree RB, if someone were to put 1000 dollars into a set of 434's they need to have thier head examined. In my case, I got a set that was totally reconditioned(tanked, fluxed, etc.), with the bigger stainless valves, screw-in studs, .525 lift springs for a measly 400 shipped to my door. These were in fact perfect for me. If someone is looking for 500 hp, they are definately looking at the wrong heads, and if you are going to be paying big money at the machine shop, its not worth it. It all comes down to what you pay, and want you want. and BTW, thanks for taking all the good heads!
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Old 05-29-2004, 02:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
thanks for taking all the good heads!
No problem! I still have a few sets of them hanging around!!! Including in fact the ones I'm driving around on my 83 these days.
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Old 05-29-2004, 05:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by RB83L69
No problem! I still have a few sets of them hanging around!!! Including in fact the ones I'm driving around on my 83 these days.
i know ive used up my fair share of the old goodys too but there still out there in abudance if you just look there are alot of people out there that think they are all junk no matter what you say to em ..
i still come accross a set or two every now and again but i have to agree there not as easy to come by as they were even 10 years ago
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Old 05-29-2004, 06:30 PM   #19
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Now this I like. Spent the day at my Dad's. Helped rebuild a tecumseh. Fun.

Now as I root around his shed, I come across, yep the Aeroquip heads. They are CNC machined and are in pristine condition. Probably because they were attached to an engine. They do look like they need to have the combustion chambers done. IIRC I bought these things over 10 years ago. That's sad.

So I now have eight anchors, 1 set of 'experimental' heads I'm gonna try and mate to a 350/TPI and then the G1 heads for the 383. Cool.

ljnowell what all is your combo and do you know what the relative output is? I think it would be a halfway decent mate to the stock TPI setup. Since they are ported and have the big valves, they should allow the motor to breathe a bit higher into the RPM band, and still produce the fun amounts of torque down where I will reasonably be able to, well, have fun with.

Maybe mate it with something like a 210º/220º and 480/480? What do you guys think?


8mike9, money is a tad tighter right now, so I'm trying to cheap out a little by using the copious amounts of parts I have lying around at my house, my parents and my inlaws. I gots lots of parts. You probably wouldn't believe how many blocks I have lying around.

Now to highjack this thread. I also found an accel distributor on the previously referenced motor. part no. 37100A - I think, it's stamped right above the serial number. Nothing stamped on the body. Neither have helped. Body is AL. The cap is cracked, so that has to get replaced. That said, here is the real problem.

Where the hell can I find some info on this damn thing? The only thing I've found on google, msn, hotbot and AV were listings for replacement dist gears. WTF? Do I have more goofy parts? The Mr. Gasket site doesn't have crap. If some other parts monger has/had one of these things (*cough* RB *cough*) please let me know what the hell I have. I am getting peesed now.
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Old 05-29-2004, 06:40 PM   #20
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Great more jack *** parts. Should have opened it from the get-go. How many people here have replaced points and condenser? How many don't know what the hell I'm talking about?

That sucks. oh well, ebay bound probably now.:lala:
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Old 05-29-2004, 07:04 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Great more jack *** parts. Should have opened it from the get-go. How many people here have replaced points and condenser? How many don't know what the hell I'm talking about?

That sucks. oh well, ebay bound probably now.:lala:
LOL... I rarely replace, I just use an emery board and a bit of compressed air.

Ya...one of thgese days I'll breakdown and spluge for the ptronix setup (only 60 bucks or so), but until then, I'll keep stealing the wifes fingernail files
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Old 05-29-2004, 07:24 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Devil
Great more jack *** parts. Should have opened it from the get-go. How many people here have replaced points and condenser? How many don't know what the hell I'm talking about?

That sucks. oh well, ebay bound probably now.:lala:
ah yes the good ol points ..lol...i had a set on my 72 monte carlo and on my 66 impala ...gotta love em
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Old 05-30-2004, 07:49 AM   #23
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I am running a .40 over 350 w/ flattops, those heads (with some pocket porting, and a little cleanup), single plane edelbrock, comp cams 280H cam(230 dur @ .050, .480 lift, single pattern cam), and an edelbrock carb. I dont like to guestimate HP, too many people here do(dont you hate it?) but it does very well. I am sure that I would benefit from some aftermarkets, but it just isnt in the budget this year.
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