Scottlb9

Either that or my car has been cursed.

This is more of a vent but if you might know the problem, feel free to chime in.

The car has been running rich for the past few months. BLM's 108 and an intergrator of 80 or so. Why? I don't know.

But just last week, the car died on me. It was running a little rough and when I shut it down, it wouldn't start. I thought that I had lost spark but when I pulled a plug to check, it started up.
It started up the next morning and died on me on the highway
(The Brooklyn / Queens Expressway to be exact).

Me mechanic and I changed the ignition coil and the distributer but the same thing was happening. he then thought it had something to do with VATS because his scanner gave a vats problem and a vats code 46.

My cylinder lock need to be changed because my key was extreamly worn and the cylinder was loose and I didn't have any spare keys.

After that, the car started up great and ran, for a day. I drove it to work and at lunch, I went for a car wash. It had a hard time starting but it did after a few tries. It made it to a party later that night but again, it had a hard time starting. No problem getting home though.

The next morning is a different story. It wont start now. If it does start, the idle is crap and it dies right after. I can't even check the timing because it doesn't run long enough to check.

Im glad I don't have hair now because I'd be ripping it out!

I like to end this with a "crud".

Trickster

Hello Charlie Brown...er uh Scott,

Are you getting a trouble code on the computer now?

Scottlb9

In a word, no.

It's just my luck. No codes. No nothing. I kmow that my little auto-xray doesn't show VATS status but I'm not getting a code anyway so to me, that doesn't matter.

I can only guess some ignition componet is to blame now but I am done with trying to do it myself so it's off to a dealer. Only reason is that they usually have the resources needed for this kind of BS and I hate working in the street.

Hopefully. I will post a solution to this madness so that anybody else can benifit from this madness.

If you believe in DOG, pray.

If not, give me a good wish.

Happy Labor day!

sellmanb

Have you tried an excorism yet? Maybe put a little holy water in the radiator?

What's funny is that it sounds like at this point you'd be willing to try it

Scottlb9

LOL

My girlfriends mother is a church going lady and I already asked her to ask her Mom to lift the curse.

Trickster

Maybe that's the problem Scott, she doesn't want you dating her daughter. J/K good luck with it!!!!!!!!!

mnegovan

The care could be responding to moisture in the air. Have you replaced the ignition wires?

406-IROC

What part of Brooklyn, Scott? Maybe I could lend you a hand.

91wtROH17's

Sounds to me like an injector my friend.

Scottlb9

Yup. MSD 8.5's

Downtown in the heights but it's out of my hands now. Thanks anyway. No more headaches. Just mt pockets now.

Actually, it starts but then dies out. Also, on a side note, if I disconnect the EST wire, it will idle but it's definitely missing on at least two cylinders.

All of my plugs were also fuel fouled.

But again, I have taken the headache to the shop and will hopefully post a resolution to all of this.

Thanks for the input and helping hands though

88Camaro350

I wouldn't be suprised if its the fuel pump.

sellmanb

i got bets that it's a fuse for one side of your engine's injectors You know, they'll charge you like 2 hours worth for diagnosing it, and then fix it all up with a $1.50 fuse, and charge you half an hour of labor to replace it

Sorry, just giving a funny scenario

Scottlb9

I checked 'em. They were good.

In a way, I'm glad it's in the shop because I looks like some parts of Brooklyn are sinking into the sea today.

Scottlb9

Who said the Injectors?

91wtROH17's come on down!
You've just won yourself a kewpie doll!

After beating the crap out of the mechanic for two days the problem has been found.

Long story short, my #7 injector was shot. The motor runs fine on seven cylinders but as soon as you reconnect #7, it takes a crap.

#7's resistance is something like 10 less than it should be, I think he said it was around .2 ohms.

I do have one last question though...

Is it harmful to run on seven cylinders? I know it can destroy the cats but what else can happen?

Thanks everyone, I hope everybody learns a lesson out of this!

I know I paid for one

sellmanb

I'm thankful that you posted what it ended up being, there have been so many posts that i've read while doing searches where the symptoms are almost EXACTLY like mine, and they never followed up on what they did to fix it.

91wtROH17's

Glad you found the problem. Injector problems suck cause sometimes they slowly get worse and it takes a while to figure out what is going on. Running on 7 is not the greatest thing for the engine. I would drive it as little as possible until fixed, and obviously change atleast change the # 7 plug when you do the injectors!! Good luck with it.

Scottlb9

I feel the same way!

Would it be like driving with a miss? I really only thought that, besides lack of power, your cats were at the most risk of damage.
What else can really happen?

Not that I'm going to leave it like this but I at least want to go to the beach this weekend.

Scottlb9

After 1/2 a Sunday and 1/2 a Monday after work, I changed my injectors. I thought that after that, things would be smooth sailing but noooooo.

I'm still running rich, I'm still cutting out or missing (I don't know the difference) and I'm still stalling.

The only way I can explain the cutting out/ missing is when I am in first gear and just trying to keep the rpms steady between 1000 and 1500, the car starts to buck like if I was bliping the throttle. I'm only assuming that is what happens with a cutout but what do I know.

The stalling occurs after a sudden change in throttle like in stop and go bumper to bumper traffic, parallel parking and the such.
I even did a full blast run in first and came to a sudden stop and it died.

So the list is as follows:
Distributer and module.
Ignition Coil
Injectors.

And now I'm back to square one and broke.

bobsroc

Have you checked the TPS voltage lately?

Red Devil

I have a football around here somewhere...

Scottlb9

.68 v - 4.54 v.

When this happened before, I had a fuel gauge hooked up and it never lost pressure or fluxuated while the cutting out happened. Could my IAC valve be causing this? Could it make the motor cut out momentarily? Kinda like oversteering, too much one way than too much another?

No thanks, I already have one in the shape of a car.

bobsroc

The TPS is a little on the high side, .54vdc in idle position. Can't hurt to clean and adjust IAC, can cause heart burn at low RPM's.
Does the car run OK above 1500RPM?

sellmanb

EDIT: LINK for your viewing pleasures

BTW, have you tried just unplugging the battery for 30 seconds - 1 minute to clear the ECM?

Scottlb9

OK as in it dosent cut out? Yes.

Yup. Same thing everytime.
And I've adjusted the Minimum and my TPS wont go any further.

bobsroc

Could it be the idle screw is out to far not letting the butterflys to close all the way causing the TPS to read higher than normal at idle? Reaching here...

Scottlb9

Forgive me, I mistyped. My TPS is .64 v and according to the service manual, it's within spec. But to answer your question, the idle screw plays a role.

Heres a new question, should I disconnect the EST wire while doing a minimum air adjustment?

the reason for asking is that when doing min air, the rpm bounces around a lot, I guess a hunting idle would be the correct discription.

Also, was I correct in describing my symptom as "cutting out"?

bobsroc

I would say no to the EST connector, I just adjusted IAC and TPS as described in the link someone gave you, but if you think it will help, try it. I guess if your timing is off it might make setting the idle speed a little rough.

sellmanb

I'd re-time your car and check and double check that if you havent already.

Remember K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid)

Scottlb9

Yeah, my Mom took me to see them when I was ten.

I think I will go the simple route and also clean tha IAC for the hell of it.

Scottlb9

Cleaned IAC and same problem is still there.

Gas milage stinks too.

What are some causes for a rich condition?

Thanks,

Scott

ploegi

My car does this to me on a fairly regular basis, but, it gets over it in about 90 seconds.

What I found was the O2 sensor was "sticking" high, leading the computer to beleive the engine was running extremely rich. Consequently, the computer would lean the crap out of the mixture, and the car would run like crap....... Once the O2 straightend out its act, the car would run great. Never set a code.

Does your car run like this when it is cold?? Or, does it start doing this once it gets above 100 degrees? (coolant temp)

Did you replace one injector, or all of them?

copperhead110

Is the #7 injector working correctly? Maybe it wasn't the injector causing the problem but the wiring?

Recheck spark plug wire routes. Look for sparks under the hood after dark.

Good luck

Scottlb9

It doesn't stall when cold but it does cutout/surge/buck/ hesitate when trying to maintain a steady rpm anywhere under 2000 or so.

All. No sense in doing just one.

The resistance was shot on the old injector and the plug wires are new. When I finished the injector job, it was dark but I didn't see any sparks.

And on a side note, to continue in the spirit of Charlie brown, I lost my last alarm remote. The actual kick in the pants here is that the valet switch doesn't work and the alarm arms itself 15 seconds after all the doors are shut.

It's not fun disconnecting the battery everytime I leave the car.
Anybody see the movie "Money Pit"?

sellmanb

I'm sorry, you have probably already done this but I dont feel like reading back up and refreshing my memory on what all you did...

did you set the TPS and IAC?

https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/tpimod2.shtml

that's the link incase you havent

Scottlb9

Yup. Did that again.

If anybody can tell me the what are the differences between surging, stumbling, hesitating, missing, cutting out and what not, I'd be quite grateful.

Thanks.

sellmanb

I cant explain all of them, since I am shady on a few still as well, but i'll give yah what i know to the best of my knowledge.

surging - think about if you had two spark plug wires crossed, on 6 of the cylinders you'd get full power, on the other 2 you'd get a waaay off timing and get little to no power from them, thus you'd get a "surging" feel because every now and then while driving it'll hit those 2 cylinders and the power will feel nil for that quarter of a second while it's on that cylinder.

stumbling - similar to surging, but think of it this way. If your car wasn't getting enough fuel, but still being fed some fuel, it would be able to run still, but just barely, so it would give that "just about to die" feeling, if you've ever sat at a red light and all of a sudden your RPM lowers and drops and your engine "coughs" so to speak, that is stumbling

hesitating - think of it this way.... you floor the car from a stop, around 55MPH your transmission just holds you at 55 for a second in between shifting up, but it doesnt feel like you're in neutral because you'd definetly hear the revs then, just sort of like you're hanging (or hesitating) between gears before it kicks in.

missing - similar to surging (and we'll use a similar analogy to it)... imagine if you took off one spark plug wire from the distributor cap all together, you simply wouldnt have spark to that cylinder, and so when driving and it got to that spark plug's turn to fire, it wouldnt fire, thus a loss of power, but it would pick up when the next cylinder which is operating correctly fires.

cutting out - i really dont know, i'd imagine it would be where the car just dies on yah

hope this helps you out?

Scottlb9

Just a few months ago, I had to have an emergency starter replaced. Unfortunatly, the only place I could go at the time was Pep Boys. I figured it's nothing but an R&R item, what can go wrong?

Well, the started started to "click" sometimes instead of start. It eventually started but it was annoying.

Since I needed an oil change, I figured go to Pep Boys and have them look at it and maybe check the connections to the starter to see if they were loose while the car was in the air, you know, warranty, just in case.

They kept setting off my alarm so I went to the garage door to see WTF? A mechanic and the service writer were looking and feeling up where the starter is and called me over.

The pointed out a loose wire, the knock sensor wire, and I said I know and told them what it was. I also told them that I wanted them to check the starter and nothing else.

When I paid for the oil change, I was told that the mechanic made sure that none of the wires were touching anything.

Heres the fun part
While getting on the highway, my SIR light started to flash and a crackeling sound came from under the dash. Panic ensues. Then it happens again and the interior fills with smoke and melted plastic smell.

I shut the car down and, thankfully, coast to the next exit and was able to park.

Where would you check first? You guessed it, the loose wire by the starter.

The mechanic had tucked it away so it wouldn't touch anything. Too bad for me because he tucked it between the #6 spark plug wire and the header. The heat resistant plastic connector lasted long enough for me to get on the highway and the finally melted all the way through to the wire which wound up being fused to the header.

I also have no electrical power at all and when I went to check my fuses (which are all in tact by the way ), I found at least two wires that has been melted and broken.

I guess I wont be seeing the Great Pumpkin this year.

sellmanb

first thing's first. take your battery in for a load test. Not likely that this could have blown it up, but then you'll have a start to it. After that, get the alternator checked out just to make sure it's not hurt from the electrical shortages.

Then replace the burnt wires, and tuck them away... YOURSELF. The good 'ol guys at Pep Boys arent exactly classified as "mechanics"... and you know why now hah...

Check all the wires to your grounds (espescially the ones under the dash -- if the main wiring harness around the lock cylinder which has [i believe] the lights, turn signals, ignition, VATs) isnt grounding (to the steering column) then it just plain wont work. Good place to start.

Wolfpack

This might seem silly....but have you checked your Fuel Filter? My buddies Cavalier was acting in almost the same way...turned out to be a trashed Fuel Filter.

JeffW

you know my 85 z was doing this odd stuff like your explaining would barly idle would be ok at high idle. wouldn't run long enough to even time the car, come to find out i had the egr solenoid disconected, i belive that is what its called any way since you been doing stuff in the area chech the elec connector at the solenoid. passenger side rear of the block right above the valve cover. may not be it but it gave me fits.

jeff

Scottlb9

Or the car for that matter.

Update.

Turns out my alarm wiring was the culprit. One of the wires shorted out against the steering column area. What a melted mess!

Now for the crap news.

I was driving around yesterday made a left right after a light and noticed a vibration. It feels like a rotational vibration but then again, what do I know. Seriously, it feels like a cylinder is dead.

I replaced all my plugs today and set my minimum air and TPS but my “vibration” is still there. It got too late to check the cap and rotor but when I do, what should I look for?

Also, the plug wires are MSD 8.8’s and are less than six months old and have about 5,000 miles on them.

How accurate is checking the header temperature for a missing/dead cylinder? I would seem a lot quicker to check this way instead of using the plug removal method.

My new motto,

If it’s not one thing, it’s another.

Later
Scott

sellmanb

glad to see you found your old problem.

As for your new problem, yes you can use the header temperature trick. It will work well. Obviously the header that doesnt have as high a temperature will not be firing, or will not be firing much at all.

Scottlb9

UGHHHHH AGAIN!

I have no power to the car at all! All of the fuses in the block are good but there is no power at all. No lights, no nothing!

What could be stopping power from getting to the car?

Scott

Trickster

Scott, in addition to what I mentioned in the PM. Check your fusible links down at the starter solenoid and make sure that they are not blown or melted against anything and shorting out.

Air_Adam

Maybe its just the fact that you have a girlfriend? I know Christine (a '58 Fury) sure didn't like 'her' owner having a girlfriend... she killed her!

Scottlb9

The humor to that last statement is the fact that I have even thought about it

Everytime I mention it to her, she retaliates with a swift punch to the arm.

Scottlb9

Time for my follow up… (I should have done this awhile ago)

The last of my problems turned out to be my EGR valve. This was found out by forgetting to hook it up to the throttle body.

No more running rich, no more stalls, no more black clouds, and best of all, no more fouled plugs.

One problem with one of the injectors though. It failed with less than 1000 miles on it.

It’s been said before and I’ll say it again, do not buy Accel!

I do want to thank everyone who threw in their two cents (and even everyone who just read the post and laughed)

Thanks.