Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

I have an idea what I think is wrong, but I'd like to get confirmation from some of the gearheads here. Engine smokes, and seems to be especially bad after warm and when idling for over a minute or so. I don't notice any smoke from the rear while driving it.

Dry test was done at WOT, all plugs removed and engine cranked till max PSI was shown on each cylinder. These seem kinda high to me - what do you guys think? Here's the dry tests:

#1 190 #2 190
#3 185 #4 190
#5 183 #6 190
#7 182 #8 192

All within 10% of one another. I initially wasn't even gonna bother doing a wet test, but I had it apart anyway - so -

Wet tests were higher yet. Everything else done same as dry test except shot oil in the cylinder, cranked it over to distribute oil in cylinders, hooked up gage and cranked to max pressure. Here they are:

#1 222 #2 195
#3 225 #4 210
#5 245 #6 222
#7 232 #8 210

Now it tells a different story.....so - what do you think? I honestly have mixed feelings.

I've done this test on a Dodge 360 before, and never got dry pressures that high, much less wet readings over 200!!

Air_Adam

Could it possibly be a leaky intake gasket letting oil into the ports?

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Well, all 8 plugs have been black and oily since I installed this engine. Plus, it was jetted waaay too high. Pig rich.

Since then I've been slowly jetting it down, and as it turns out - When I went to do the tests today I removed the plugs of course, and for the VERY FIRST time they were dry!!

Still black, but a dull dry black. So I doubt it would be a head gasket problem on all 8 cylinders. And I've changed the intake gasket twice.

RB83L69 has a thought about the rocker studs in the heads wicking oil into the intake ports. I'll be checking that next.

I figured I'd go ahead a do a compression check before I start pulling rocker studs and sealing them...

What do you think of the test results though??

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

No one wants to even guess?

Damon

If your heads are the 64cc chamber variety your compression will be up around 10:1 with the KB #147 pistons. 10:1 compression, that cam and 190 PSI cranking pressures sounds just about dead-on right to me.

Bigger engines generate more cranking cylinder pressure than smaller engines even if all the other specs are the same. Don't ask me why- I don't know, but I have found it to be true.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Damon is right, plus higher compression motors will read higher, too. I get dry readings on my 10.5 compression 383 up around 220 or so....

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Thanks Damon. I actually have 72cc chambers, and -15cc dished pistons. I think the compression should be around 9.3 - 9.5:1

But I know the cam has alot to play in cranking pressure also.

When I took the dry readings, everything looks fine. All well within 10% of one another, so it indicates the power between cylinders are fairly balanced to me.

Then I took the "wet" test, and I'm having mixed feelings about what they're telling me. Should I have even done a wet test at all, seeings how the dry test looked good?
What do you guys think?? If this were your engine, and looking at the results - what condition would you say the shortblock is in??

RB83L69

The dry test looks fine.

I'd expect to see 20 psi or so more on the wet test, which is about what most of them did; looks like on a couple, the lifters bled down enough to kill a bunch of duration, so those are higher. But again, I don't see a "smoking gun" (excuse the pun) anywhere in there.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

What color is the smoke? Blue as in oil? White as in antifreeze? Black as in carbon or unburned fuel?

Air_Adam

Its oil.

"RB83L69 has a thought about the rocker studs in the heads wicking oil into the intake ports. I'll be checking that next."

I'd work with that first, if you have heads that have the studs going into the intake ports. That could easily be the problem.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Thanks RB! You can probably see why I had mixed feelings about the wet test...they were way more erratic than the dry test, but lifter bleed down would explain a lot. I didn't consider that at all.
That "smoking gun" thing was really funny RB! -Thanks!

vernw - it smokes a gray-bluish tint. Seems to slowly get worse if I have it idling after the engine is completley warm. Not bad when you first go to idle, but if you watch the exhaust, the smoke seems to get worse the longer it sits and idles. That's why I'm doing as many tests to narrow it down.

ploegi

Have you checked your PCV system? Could be sucking oil out of the crankcase......

Valve stem seals?

warped intake manifold?

Head mating surface? (head to intake)

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

PCV was disconnected, and I now have tha old style breather that goes to the air cleaner for about a week now - no change.

Warped intake? Well I've changed gaskets twice, and no effect. Both the surface on the intake and head looked fine.

I'm going to put my old Weiand action plus on it this winter just to make sure the intake I have on it now isn't the problem...

In order to check for valve stem seal looseness I'll have to pull the heads and have them looked over at the machine shop. But they are new - I know it doesn't mean they're not the problem though.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

I agree Adam! That's the type of job best done when I have it put away this winter. I'm just testing while the weather is still a little warm to narrow it down. And yes, it has studs like RB mentioned...

I can already tell you I'm gonna hate these poly-locks on it...

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

Confuzed,

I know you have read my thread, and I am sure you know about my smoking problems, the engine that is. I have had the same problem with my 406. The plugs look black and wet, at one time i had the timing jacked way up and they burned clean. I ran a compression check and I think it as around 180 or so, I'd have to check my thread. I did a leakdown test and could hear the air rushing past the rings. I haven't worked on it in a while, it's back in the garage now so I might work on it. I don't want to tear my whole engine down again, but I might have to.

MightyMouse

I am having this same problem. I feel that my cylinders were fuel washed and I am getting poor ring seal as a result.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

I think that's what happened to me too.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Well, not sure what "ring washed " means, but I'm 100% sure my 400 has been running pig rich (fuel and oil) since I got it.

I JUST finally pulled plugs out that were dry about a week ago! I went from having 80/92's to 72/78's recently. They're still black though - a dull instead of wet black.

So does ring wash prevent the rings from sealing somehow??

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

instead of the ring riding against the cylinder wall, the fuel gets between the two and glazes the ring over preventing the ring wearing to the cylinder wall. It's like when you glaze your brakes over, they don't stop very well anymore.

Jason

JAYDUBB

Old thread... I know but...

Cylinders 2,4, and 8 didnt pick up that much, compared to the others...

Have you done a leak-down test? I would suspect ring problems on those three cylinders.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Well, the purpose for doing the dry test was to determine the overall condition of the valves/rings, and it would detect any possible head gasket problems. Supposedly, if the readings are within 10% of one another, it tells me that the power output (really compression) is balanced between the cylinders. That part looked OK to me....

Then I did the wet test. Put a tablespoon of oil in the cylinder you're testing, crank it a couple strokes and attach the tester and crank it to the highest reading, just like the dry test. Since cylinder no. 2,4,and 8 didn't increase much, I kinda thought that was a good thing. I mean, since the oil helps the rings seal further, the smaller the diff between dry/wet, the better right??

Number 5 seems to have issues, but I think they all do - and 5's just the worst.

I did start to do a leakdown also, and they were looking even worse....I was down to 72% on the first two I checked, and sounded like is was rushing through the rings. The exhaust and carb stayed quiet.

Just to make sure those readings were low, I did a leakdown test on the 305 that....I BUILT-, and got much better 85-87% readings, with minimal blowby past the rings.

SO.....engine's coming back out. I suspect scoring from cam lobe shavings but I gotta pull the head to prove it. I don't have a boroscope, wish I did. I've kept in contact with the builder since this started, and until now, he's blamed it on rings not seated yet, and PCV system, which I removed two weeks ago and still smokes.....
He says he'll rebore it and re-reing it if that's what it needs.....we'll see....

My saga continues....

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

I feel ya man, I am in the same boat, which we discussed over PM's. I have another project in my garage so I haven't got to work on my own stuff yet.

Jason

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Just an update. Engine is close to being ready to pull. I posted this on another thread, but I figured I'd drag my original post up and throw it here too...

I pulled the intake off, and it looks as if the gasket was sealing great. I also looked into each intake port, and RB83L69 was right, the rocker studs do protrude into the ports!! That's just plain stupid IMO. But I found no oil sitting on the intake valves or anything like that. I guess next step is to pull the heads, and I may as well yank the engine first to make it easier....

4BoltMain

If you did a leak down test and you were at 72% on the first 2 you checked? You didn't hear it out the exhaust? Carb? Could be that the valves aren't seating properly.
Just a thought.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

4BoltMain - Yeah, I was actually hoping I would hear blowby in the carb or exhaust, because pulling the heads is a cinch compared to pulling the whole motor again, but I could hear air pretty clearly coming from the PCV valve hole in the valve cover, and I think it's blowing by the rings into the crankcase.

I suspect something's wrong in the short block, due to the excessive pressure increase between the dry/wet compression test I took. I can't see anything else that would cause this....

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

In case others have a simular problem. Here's arundown on what's been eliminated:

Intake gaskets were sealed fine, I checked after I pulled the intake and a local machine shop checked the heads. All valve guides and teflon seals looked new with no slop. Valves looked good too. But - there was oil pooled in a few intake ports when I took it apart. The shop said it wouldn't cause the problems I'm having. Also had 3 broken pushrod tips.
Shop said "why would anyone put cheap generic pushrods in an engine with otherwise good parts?"

They say the problem has to be in the shortblock. Most likely oil control rings....

I notified the engine builder about this since I first got it in the car, so it's been smoking since I got it. He says he'll hone it and put new rings in it if that's what it needs. I hope he does. It's not just the cost of hone/rings I'm out of, but the head gaskets, main/rod bearings too! Oh, and let's not forget my labor to pull an engine out that should've been right in the first place. I guess I'll find out what happens when he looks at it.

I'm looking into getting the Total seal gapless rings this time around. So... pulling the engine again....

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

I read somewhere that the total seal gapless rings weren't as good as the concept is, I think it was in a car craft, but after learning about torqe convertors, i don't believe everything I read in magazines anymore. As I stated, I am having the same problem as you are, exactly. I am guessing my oil control rings are junk and I am not sure why. What type of rings did you use? I used hasting moly rings, nothing special, I have used them in many other engine builds and have never had any problem with them. When I first built my engine, I had to run race gas in it because it would ping to bad, now I don't have to, I am guessing because the compression is going into the crankcase.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Some brand called "Enginetech"...that was under scrutiny too when I seen it on the reciept..KB silvolite pistons with "Enginetech" rings....I thought I asked for moly rings, now I see I should've insisted on it. But who knows if it would have helped or not.

Hastings is normally a decent brand from what I've heard. When I build engines myself, (and now I wish I would've built this one)...

I've always used Speed-Pro or Perfect Circle and had no probs..You need to pull your heads and see whats goin on in there.

EDIT: It's either the TSS or Max Seal ringset I was looking at. I'm considering getting the set that has a gapless 2nd ring, standard top and oil rings....I dunno - I think having as little blowby as possible is a good thing. So long as the tension isn't too tight. They claim a small hp and tq gains.....I don't really need much more, but I'll take em!!

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Another quick question:

I'm pulling the rotating assembly out, and taking the block to a machine shop. I know that it will depend on how deep the cylinders are scored, as to whether it will need to overbored or just honed and rings replaced. So-

The question is, given that I can barely feel the scratches in the mid-to- bottom of a few cylinders, how far can these cylinders be honed out to still accept standard size 4.165 rings??

I've also heard that if it turns out to be too loose after honing, the pistons might make noise and rock in thier bores. I don't want that.

Anyone want to take a shot at this one??

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Even though half my questions seem to go unanswered on this, I'll keep the thread going to update what I've found so far. If nothing else, it may help someone doing a search...

Only thing I've really found definately wrong is the three pushrod ends missing. I think it may have been that the poly-locks loosened up and damaged them. I think if anything else was wrong, I'd have more than 3 broken...

Pulled pistons/rods today and they look new (they are), but I was a little disturbed to see that the ring gaps were lined up on two pistons....I always stagger gaps 180 out when I assemble an engine myself. There are light scores on 5 of 8 cylinders, but not bad at all. Should hone right out I hope. I'll know more about that when I get it to the machine shop.

Heck, the rings may have eventually broken in if I put more miles on it. I'll never know now.

Rod bearings are a different story. They look weird to me. Almost looks like they are de-laminating somewhat....patchy shiny spots and dull spots...don't know what could cause that, and maybe it's normal...I'll see if I can post a pic tomorrow.

Cam looks great, and crank journals look good except for one nick that I don't think is hurting anything.

I didn't realize how much clearancing had to be done on the block! There's grinding all over the place!

EDIT: BTW, I decided to do this myself instead of driving 3 hours each way for the builder to fix it....so in a way, I'm letting him off the hook, but I have a good basic knowledge on rebuilding engines since I've done a few in the past - plus I'll know it's done right.

cam-

Can't say much about your engine issues but the poly locks on the other hand I have plenty of experience with. I used to have a solid cammed big block that required adjusting on a weekly basis and I learned in that time that the top of the studs need to be machined ( ground flat ) to allow the locks a true surface to seat to or they will loosen and it did help when i had that done but still was not ideal. I have since been told that the best way for tightening down poly locks so they never lossen is to adjust the lash where you want it, tighten down the allen screw until contact, then while holding the allen bolt in place back off the nut 1/8 turn, then tighten both the lock and the nut down together. This is suposed to work great whether or not the studs are machined. Hope this is of some help

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for the tip on polylocks 87roc_t56! Like I said, the builder did the adjustments and installed the polys, and I've never had to deal with them before. Looks like I will though.

Update on the block...

I turned it into a trusted local machine shop today, and as soon as he seen the cylinders, he said it "looks like something went though the engine." No doubt it was metal shavings from the cam it ate at the shop.

On a good note, he says it looks like I'll be able to just hone, re-ring and I should be set!

I'll still have to take up the issue of broken pushrods with the builder. I'm also hoping they'll at least help defray some of the cost like providing head gaskets or something, even though technically he really isn't bound to do so since I took the block to another shop. But worth a try anyway....

UPDATE: Well, I called the builder, and at least I'm getting the head gaskets (70.00) and some new pushrods. Of course they didn't seem too excited about sending the stuff without seeing the engine themselves, but tough - I've dealt with this oil burning problem for a year now. The engine should'nt have left their shop like that AFAIC....

cam-

You are most welcome

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Well, I got the block back from the machine shop, and it's been honed. Honing didn't get rid of every scratch but the vast majority......they say I should be fine.

I installed Clevite 77 tri-metal bearings, and TSS gapless rings.

No- I don't buy the hype about increased HP or broader TQ band, but I like the sound of 3-4" increased vacuum at idle, with minimal blowby.

I also got their "Quick seat" dry cylinder lube. I've always oiled up the cylinder prior to installling pistons, but not with this stuff. You clean the cylinders completley, and spread this talc power consistancy stuff on each cylinder with your fingers...kinda like grafite powder. Just weird assembling dry pistons. But they say it'll speed up the break-in to 3 minutes or less. I'll see....

Oh, BTW....I'm running a stock type pan - would I see any benefit bt installing some type of windage tray? And what fits a studded main 400?

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

I had wondered myself about using the powder that you mentioned. How expensive was it? I figure my rings are bound to seat better if they are installed the correct way.

As far as the winday tray goes. I used a stock GM windage tray, stock GM bolts/studs. I will look through my thread to see if I can get a part number. It was much cheaper than going with an aftermarket setup IMO. I was going to use a crankscraper, but the rods were so close to the block there would have been nothing left of the scraper after I got done grinding on it.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

Try GM part number 3927136 Z28 windage tray. You will have to elongate the bolt holes a little to work on a 400. Use the PN 14087508 5 5/8" long main studs. This has worked for me. There are probably other aftermarket trays that will work also just make sure they have the room at the mounting surface for elongating. Something like a Moroso screen tray might not work because the mounting surface is small and doesn't allow a whole lot of room to elongate the bolt holes. I have never used a crank scraper with a 400 but I can't see it being a big deal. Just takes some time to set up the clearance. All scrapers are going to require some trimming no matter what small block your building (save for a 283 or something with a tiny stroke).

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Hey, thx for the info LilJayV10 -

Well, right now I'm using ARP studs, and I don't think they are long enough. There's only a few threads that protrude past the main cap nuts. And I already have the crank installed and the mains torqued down......so would it still be worth getting longer studs and installing one you think?

The tray you have pictured - I assume it goes on top of the main cap nuts, and is then bolted on with another nut??

I tried the crank scraper thing on my 400 too...I had the same problem you had. The crank throws come way close to the side of the block (it's been clearanced) and there wouldn't hardly be a scraper left when I got done grinding...

Oh BTW....I noticed the cork oil pan gasket you're using...I switched to the fel-pro one piece rubber seal, and I'll never go back! You might wanna try it.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

I said I'd keep this post updated, so here goes.

Been a year since I reinstalled it, and I thought it was better intially. I started seeing the same problems reappear after a week or so though...plugs black and wet, smoking at idle again. I've had to add 2 quarts of oil in the last 2K miles. It does have a pesky small leak that wicks down an oil pan bolt, but I don't think it's 2 Qts. worth, just a couple of drops on the garage floor after I shut it down and it sits for a few hours. It does seem to run great cruising and at WOT. That is, until the plugs get gunked up. I can tell because it will start to miss (sputter) a little when it's cold. I'm on my second set of plugs too.

I have noticed that when the engine is cold, the exhaust is clear for the first few minutes, and as it warms up it starts smoking.

So, I continue to have horrible luck with this engine, and I don't know for sure why it continues to smoke at idle.

If it were a horse, I woulda shot it by now.

Everything, I mean EVERYTHING is aftermarket and was new except for the block itself, and it's done this from day one since I've had this engine.

I could use some honest opinions on where to go from here if this was your engine. Here's a list of things I've checked to try and stop this smoking at idle issue, and things that I think might cause this that have,nt been checked - by me at least.

-I have no contamination - oil in water or vice-versa.
-Not losing water, but seems to go through oil (10W-40)
-I've changed intake gaskets at least 6 times by now. Nothing changes.
-Valve seals still look new - (I'm using teflon seals on both I and E)
-All rocker studs have sealer on threads, along with head studs.
-Thought it was running fuel rich for a long time, but I've had 2 different carbs on it now, no change.

So I plan on pulling the engine again.

I'll have the machine shop go over the heads thoroughly. I'm hesitant to have the block checked, because I "think" I'd see contamination problems, but I'm not. I guess if the heads check out OK though, I'll have to.

Opinions on this welcome.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

hmm, so you're pretty sure your carb settings are ballpark, but you're getting oil into the combustion chamber somehow and burning it?

hmm. What type of PCV system are you running now? If you've got gapless rings, your blowby should be quite minimal, I might try dual breathers, just to see if it changes anything. (if you aren't already)

What's your oil pressure like at idle and at cruise?

9.5:1 CR, on iron heads? What octane do you run? Do you encounter any pinging? Usually oil in the chamber will make the motor ping more...
What heat range of plugs are you using?

You said the valve guide slop was checked on rebuild, and was ok? Minimal valve stem clearance?

I think checking pushrods is a good idea, if the motor is eating pushrods, that's worth knowing... (Just throwing out an idea).

Oil in the intake port does tell you that oil is getting in before the cylinder head. So if you remove your intake, and you see some oil in the intake manifold, or cylinder head intake ports, then that's a red flag.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Thx for the response Sonix.

Yes, I've kinda concluded it's burning oil. No matter where I set timing or adjust the 4 corner A/F screws, it'll smoke.

I currently have a PCV valve in one cover, breather in the other. Valve covers have baffles. Tried running one breather, and the other hosed into the air cleaner (like the sixties) - no change, and no oil in the air cleaner.

It has a high volume oil pump. Pressure is around 30 PSI at idle, 40-50 cruising. I also run a windage tray in the oil pan.

Not sure about the heat ranges of the plugs..I have AC 45RTS plugs in it now, and had NGK UR-4 plugs in it before (they got fouled). I know my timing mark is off, but I can set my initial timing at 31 degrees, with a total advance of around 42, and it doesn't ping. I run 91 octane.

The valve guides were never checked - just the seals, which look good. I didn't have the heads rebuilt because they had less than 5K on them since new, so I didn't suspect them. I do now. Also, I've since installed a retro-roller hydralic cam (Comp XR288HR) and have different length pushrods in it now. I have not looked at them recently, but they were holding up well last time I checked.

I did see oil in the intake ports once after I had removed the intake, (sitting on top of the intake valve) and I asked the machine shop about it. I mentioned that the heads had less than 5K on them, and they basically said I shouldn't worry about it. Maybe they thought it was a leaky intake gasket, but I told them I tried changing those several times.

In hindsite, maybe I should have made a bigger deal out of it. I'll be looking for that again when I pull this intake.

88TPI406GTA

That really sucks...I feel for you...tracking down stupid problems keeps us from enjoying the time and money we have sunk into our projects

I have to think that the valve guides may be an issue...of course, when you tear the engine down, you will be able to figure it out...

It has to be either the intake gasket or the valve guides, right? The rings test seemed to be decent and the fact there is minimal difference between dry/wet compression would indicate an issue on the top side of the engine. It is always possible that one or two guides are sloppy...because while a quart every thousand miles isn't terrible (for a higher mileage engine, not yours), the visual evidence of smoke would indicate a more obvious problem.

How about oil? What are you currently using? Could you try a heavier viscosity? Are you running dino vs synthetic? I know from experience that running a midweight dino oil cures any problems I may have had with a synthetic.

HTH...

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Thx - it does suck. It's kept me from getting a cowl hood and getting it painted etc., because I want it to be somewhat mechanically sound before I work on appearance. I use 10W-40 non-syn. in it now. I thought about running 20W-50 (non syn.), but I don't think it'll make any difference really. As far as money goes, yeah, I've sunk alot into it. I plan on geting personalized plates that read "MNYPT". lol

I intend to check the valve guides this time around, and maybe I have another problem altogether, and I just can't find it...

But if I have to tear into the shortblock AGAIN - well, let's just say my plans may change altogether.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

Confuzed,

It's been a while since we have talked I didn't know you were still having problems. I was having the exact same problem with my 406. Ended up I had installed the second ring upside down. Everything on my build was new. i would use quarts of oil a week, sometimes days. The machine shop checked everything out and one of the old guys that worked there started asking if I had installed the rings correctly. I said i thought I had, I wouldn't intentionally put them in wrong. We checked and the second ring was upside down, the dot was facing down not up.

I had changed intakes, intake gaskets, carb settings. Did a compression check, it was good. Did a leak down test and it was over 60%. with the ring being upside down it was pushing the compression into the crankcase instead of keeping it in the cylinder.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

LilJayV10 - Yeah, still having probs. I knew about your situation before I installed these rings...all are installed properly, as were the last ones. I never would have thought a few upside down rings would cause havoc till I read your post. A good thought though. Thx anyways!

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

I would start with buying another valve cover breather and putting that on your other valve cover where the PCV valve is. The carb will go rich then, so maybe take the line that went from the carb to the PCV, and put a little filter on it, so it can still pull that extra air into the carb. This'll be about a $6 mod that shouldn't take long. I have a feeling the highish oil pressure at idle might be throwing enough oil around to toss it into your PCV-> intake. It may not have shown in the air cleaner before, but.... I think it's probably worth checking.

2nd - bad valve guides could be part of the problem, but I doubt it, a good valve seal would band-aid it. The seal wouldn't let oil through. The exhaust might push some extra exhaust up, but that shouldn't let any oil into the chamber.

I'm just brainstorming here what could physically, possibly, toss oil into the combustion chamber. Do you notice any of the spark plugs that are better than others? Ie, it doesn't show that a few cylinders, or one side, is gumming up the plugs, or all plugs equally?

If it's equal, it would have to be upstream of the intake, more than likely. Also, what intake manifold do you have? Dual plane, single plane?

Do you have some oil deflectors? Maybe run it at idle and pop off a valve cover, and just see if you can hear any hissing. Maybe use a stethoscope. Just to verify you're not pulling oil down the guides or rocker studs. (If you can see it NOT leaking there, then you can be more sure of your work).

Might be time for another leakdown test, unfortunately.

SpitotRs305

oops this isnt Oz...

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

First off, thx for more thought provoking suggestions Sonix!

-It so happens I have another valve cover breather already. I "think" I already tried that, but I'll give it a shot again. I can just leave the PCV valve unplugged from the VC and let it suck in air for a bit.

-I know the problem shouldn't be valve guides, but technically it shouldn't have this problem at all since everything's new inside this engine. The thought is, maybe if the guides are too loose, the holes in the new seals are worn just slightly oblong, allowing oil to pass through. I realize it's a shot in the dark, but I've looked at everything I can think of - hence this post asking for suggestions on other things that I should look at.

-When I noticed puddling of oil once on top of the valves when I removed the intake, It was in several ports. The spark plugs are all generally black, but some look slightly better than others. I'm using a Professional Products "Crosswind" intake, which is a copy of the "Air Gap" intake. I've tried gasket changes on this intake, and even put on my old Weiand Action Plus intake that I used to run on my 305. It didn't make any difference in the smoking at idle problem.

-I've had the covers off while the engine has been running before (adjusting polylocks) - I never heard any hissing noises or anything unusual. How would I see oil leking into a valve seal?? I've changed rocker studs twice also, and ensured I put sealer on all the threads because the holes do extend into the ports on my heads. I also sealed the head bolts.

-I plan to do another compression (dry and wet) test, prior to doing exploratory teardown on this engine. I have a leakdown tester, but I'll have to try it this time when the engine is at least warm. I tried a leakdown test before (above) but the engine was cold. The more I thought about it, the more I thought maybe the rings/bores wern't sealing ideally when cold, which may be normal. It's extremely difficult to get the hose attached when the headers are still hot.

-But - I didn't see anything strikingly bad with the standard rings I had in it before when I did the compression test with the old standard rings (above). Hopefully, with these "gapless" rings I have in it now, the results may be even better.

Again, thx! I'll post back how the PCV test goes. Also open for any more thoughts too.....