ljnowell

Well, this is how it sits. I decided on new heads for my income tax gift to my car. The old GM heads work pretty good (considering all the work I put in to them), but its finally time to step up to some good heads. I have narrowed it down to edelbrock Performer RPM heads, Trickflow (the signature series ones 1025 a pair from summit), or dart Pro 1. The trickflow or Darts will be either 200 or 215cc intake, all will be 2.02 1.60 valves. 64cc chambers also.

Anyone have any opinions on these heads? Maybe someone out there have some real world experience with them? Like most decisions these are based on cost, they are all relative in cost, so I just want to make sure that I get the most bang for my buck.

funstick

we are talking a 350 ci motor here correct ??

ljnowell

Yeah, its the 350 listed in my sig.

Morley

The Edelbrock's are a decent head, not steller but ok. It would be a toss up on Darts or Trick Flows..but 215cc may be a bit much, unless you are planning on spinning that 350 to 7k. Both are similarly priced and both are a good flowing head so that would be personal choice.
I personally have a pair of Trick Flows and love 'em to death (they were also only $858 when I got them)

88IROC350TPI

I'm going to be picking up a set of Canfield 195's for my 350 street/strip motor. $1050 from Competition Products with solid roller springs... mmmmm.

ljnowell

I was looking at 200cc intake, but one of the offers that I have had is for a set of 215. I think its a little big too, but there are worse things than that. I usually spin it to around 6500-6800 before it starts to drop off.

funstick

well i know from experience that the canfield head is an underate over performer. im not familiar with the 195cc unit but my other experiences have been stellar. thats a reasonable price. i would consider a 195cc port for sure.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

I know you've read it before The Edelbrocks do not leave much material for future port work so they're really not a head that you can grow into. A "nice" head, but if your spending the money it'd be nice to know they could stick around awhile when you go to step it up.

I have no personal experience with Trick Flow, but flow numbers now shown in advertising look promising.

Dart Pro 1's are a good head design, but do need to worked out of box to truely acheive and maximize their design. I know I push AFR whenever possible, but I've gone through the book from our head shop and looked/compared all the heads run through the shop and how they stack up, especially after I had my results in from the 210's. The Dart Pro 1 230's flowed 30cfm less out of box than mine did with only 70% cnc'd plus I have have smaller runners After some prot work they (Dart's)were able to get them into the 278cfm range with a little more room to massage-(should also mention those Darts reside on a '72 2900lb nova running 9.46's on a 406sbc), but imo you might as well buy what works from the get go so you dont have to upgrade right away to get good results.

Any of the heads you mentioned are going to allow you to make good power, so just do alot of research and make an informed decsion for you investment.

88IROC350TPI

I kinda favor smaller intake ports. Unless you have an all-out race 350 theres no reason to go over 200cc's. You'll probably regret it in the long run.

I also agree that Canfield's dont get the respect they deserve. I know quite a few people running silly numbers with them.

ljnowell

I agree on the smaller ports, the only reason to take the larger ports would be for $$$ purposes. If they are cheaper, I dont mind building into them next year.

I know about the edelbrocks basically being in a maxed out state from the box, and I have heard that the Pro 1s need some work to get real good flow. I am leaning more towards the trick flows honestly.

About the canfields, for that price do those come fully assembled? Valves, springs, studs, guideplates? What is the state of assembly?

Anyone here running any of these heads?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I'm running the Trickflow 23 degree heads. No problems. Right now my combo is putting out 354Hp on the 350 cubic inch engine. With a little fine tuning of the air fuel mixture and then play with the timing I'm hoping for a little more HP. Then I will fully modify my TPI to the maximum. I want to get a base line run at the strip before the final mod to the TPI. Allen

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Sure you checked out this link, but I'll post it for other to see when they happen across this thread. Scroll down and they give flow stats for about every head out there.

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Chevy

You can also use that page to go back to his home page, the guy has some pretty interesting stuff when you dig around.

ljnowell

IHI-- I have seen that before, but couldnt find it again. Got it safely bookmarked now though. Thanks a lot man. I am starting to lean more and more towards the TrickFlow Kenny Duttweiler heads. I am just trying to see if I can get them in a strait plug configuration. They seem to be a good all around head, with room to grow, unlike the edelbrocks. Also, I have heard from a couple people on here and at one of the local shops that the Dart Pro 1s arent any better than the Iron Eagles. I would just like to make the jump to aluminum.

edit: well cant get them in the strait plug configuration. Guess I am back to where I was. Maybe some Pro 1's and some porting before I install them.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Another good head with good flow numbers is the new Brodix "Race Rite" head. Has some pretty good numbers to it. I do not know the price. However the place to spend the money on a build up is the heads. These may be what you are looking for. Allen

todd200

I don't think you can get the Kenny Duttweiler's with straight plug anymore. I was told even with the angle plug they fit like 98% of the headers made so I got them.

leeperryracing

for the MONEY and the perfomance you can't beat the edelbrock performer rpm and as you said, don't go overboard with the port size. My buddy out here has those heads on his built 350 in an '87 gta along with a crane cam(.454/.480), edelbrock air-gap intake, stage2 750 cc q-jet and 3.42 gears and F*ck! that thing moves and his combo would even give a harder pull at sea-level as out here we are 5280ft above.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

For angle/straight plug I know with both set's of LT headers I had, the angle plugs are actually easier to access than the previous stright plug design. I dont know what your running exactly or plan on running, but if's it's either the Heddmans or Super Comps I can tell you from experience angle plugs are the ticket.

88IROC350TPI

Yes completely assembled with 2.08/1.60 valves. You can also get the Canfield 220's for a hundred or so more. Competition Products sells them the cheapest that I've seen.

Heres a thread I dug up.
10.9's from a basic 350 with a sissy cam and some nitrous. https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...Canfield+vette

As soon as my wallet permits (soon) I'll be getting a set along with a solid roller . If it doesn't go 11's on motor I'll give up hot-rodding and pick a new hobby.

rjmcgee

I agree on the angle plug. My plugs would be alot harder to change and alot harder to keep the wires from getting burned if I had strait plugs.

todd200

Unfortunatly I'll be running FlowTech shorties at first. Hooker long tubes are high on my list of "things to get soon" though.

ljnowell

That is what I have on mine now. They will be going sometime this year, but I have to get something that will work with what I have now, it kinda sucks. I wish I knew if someone was running the flowtechs with angle plugs.

todd200

My engine is on a stand right now. I'll screw in a plug and mock up the headers tomorrow and let you know asap. I took the leap that they would work since I got a REALLY good deal on them. I figured if they don't work I still saved enough to almost cover some hooker long tubes.

ljnowell

Awesome man, thanks a lot.

todd200

No problem

jcb999

If you directly compare a head with a 67cc chamber and a 76 (a-la AFR), it should be pretty obvious that the flow numbers (especially lowlift and midrange) will be down due to increased valve shrouding. 8-10 cfm down is almost a given.

todd200

Kenny Duttweiler 62cc 23 Degree Airflow Chart
Lift Value:
IN EX
0.100 51 58
0.200 136 98
0.300 191 136
0.400 230 163
0.500 253 177
0.600 254 190

AFR 195cc Street Head
IN EX
0.100 No Data
0.200 132 108
0.300 198 156
0.400 240 178
0.500 260 190
0.600 262 194

It is my understanding that Trick Flows respond much better to porting than AFR's. I was told by a friend at Total Engine Airflow they had a set flowing over 300cfm@ 0.500 with little more than a bowl blend. Now I'm no expert but if thats the case I think the Trick Flows are a better choice. And the fact they are cheaper and only took 2 days to get didn't hurt any.

SweetS10v8

Honestly the first thing I would do is ditch the Torquer intake for a RPM air-gap.

My vote goes with AFR, even though its not on the list. I got the 195s and I cant say enough good things about them. YOu can pick em up for under $1300 including shipping. There isnt a real need for port work either. You never want to skimp on heads. You should get the absolute best pair you can afford, even if that means saving an extra long time. It will be worth it in the end, I promise...

87GTA Runner

I am running the Kenny Dutweiler Trick Flows 195s with the CNC chambers and love them to death. I am using Hooker 2055s and it couldn't be any easier to get at the plugs. Trick Flows service is awesome too(since they're Summit)and always answered my questions right away.

12secformula

I wouldn't recomend the Dart pro-1's thats for sure, I haven't heard or seen good things come out of them. My local speed shops always use them and say they are better than AFR's but I haven't seen anybodies car run good w/ them. A buddy of mine runs a 1400lb rail car w/ a 355ci engine and switched from Dart Iron Eagles and gained maybe a tenth! On the other hand Trick Flows I have seen so very fast cars running and everyone I have talked to that has them, loves them, same for AFR's. Good luck, I think you would be happier w/ the Tick flows or AFR's.

ljnowell

Sorry no plans on ditching my single plane intake, this thread is about heads..

As far as AFRs, I dont want to pay thier cost and wait for them.

ljnowell

Thanks for the insight. That is some of the "real world" info I was looking for also. Todd20 sent me some PMs and told me that his headers did fit the trickflows, so I guess they will be the way to go. I feel like an old lady being all indecisive, but this is a purchase that I want to be sure of. Thanks man

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Just wait till your contemplating a $800 purchase of a convertor

ljnowell

I can only guess. The last time I was shopping for 300 dollar converters, I did everything but call the manufacturers parents for references. My money is dear to me, and I want to make sure it goes in the right places.

todd200

Dropping a grand is dropping a grand. There is nothing wrong with doing research before spending that kind of money.