IROCZ89

I just picked up a complete 86 Iroc with 5.0 tpi for $300. The motor has a rod knock. I am planning on rebuilding it and putting the motor, injection system, complete computer and disk with complete brake system rear end in my 89 5.0 tbi car.

My questions are:

If I do this and switch the complete set up I should not have any problems Right?

Also do you guys think there will be any problems switching the computer?

The 86's body is a t-top car and has some issues (some rust in the t-top areas and other places) that I do not want to deal with. I figure I can get all the parts I need off that one for my 89.

Thanks,
Phil

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89 IROC 5.0 TBI
Soon to be a 5.0 TPI, with a disk rear.

RB83L69

Not legal in CA. You could go the other way (89 motor in 86 car) but you can't put an old motor in a newer car.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

IROCZ89

Advantages of being an out of state resident.

Thank god for the military.

What about switching the injection system?


Phil


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89 IROC 5.0 TBI
Soon to be a 5.0 TPI, with a disk rear.

[This message has been edited by IROCZ89 (edited August 14, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by IROCZ89 (edited August 14, 2001).]

RB83L69

Physically it will all swap right over.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

IROCZ89

Next question then:

How will the smog guys know if it is an 86, 89 unless they were told?

I know to do this the legal way I should let the DMV and all know that the car has been modified. which should not be a problem considering I am doing a stock swap and all the parts I am using will be stock and emisions (sp?) correct for the car.

Thanks,
Phil

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89 IROC 5.0 TBI
Soon to be a 5.0 TPI, with a disk rear.

irocbsa

The smog techs will have no idea unless they run the casting numbers on the block which they will not do. Fool those bastards to your heart's content. All SBC blocks look fundamentally the same on the exterior.
bsa

IROCZ89

That is what I was thinking. I am going to do the swap. I wonder if the casting numbers might cover a broad spectrum of our cars like do some other makes. Hmmmmmm. Either way it is time to have fun.

The only thing I think they could nail me on is the TBI to TPI swap because the vin will come back as a TBI. However if I do an all original swap and not hack it, it should be ok.

Phil

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89 IROC 5.0 TBI
Soon to be a 5.0 TPI, with a disk rear.

[This message has been edited by IROCZ89 (edited August 14, 2001).]

RB83L69

In CA, perhaps unlike GA or anywhere else, they open up a book that shows all the emissions-related components that should be on your year model car according to its VIN. The VIN even tells whether it's a CA car or a "Federal" car for emissions purposes, and they will look it up accordingly. If you have swapped the engine to some other engine which is legal to put in the car (one from the same year car that could have come as an option in that chassis, or one from a newer car) they will need to know what year engine it is so they can look it up in their book. Then they check, one by one, to see if the various devices are there, hooked up, and appear to be working. 89 cars with TPI were speed-density, 86 cars were MAF. The different sensors and so forth will immediately fail the visual.

It is not legal here to put in an engine from an earlier model year car, period. If however the earlier engine is substantially similar to the one that should be in the car, that is it has all the right emissions equipment in the right places, and it passes the dyno sniffer test, then it might slide through in spite of being technically illegal. So you might be able to put the 86 TPI motor in a 88 car and slide it by, since in that year it would have had a MAF if it had been TPI. Not in your 89 though.

This has nothing to do with casting numbers. An engine could still fail even if it had the same or even newer castings. They don't check those.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

IROCZ89

I know my car is not a California car. Which might be to my benefit. Either way I have the ablility to Reg out of state.

Heck the engine I am planning on using might be a newer set up anyway.

Phil

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89 IROC 5.0 TBI
Soon to be a 5.0 TPI, with a disk rear.

JoelOl75

The 89 cars were not speed density, they were maf. The only visual clue is the lack of the cold start injector. The computers are the same, and I wouldn't even change it because 89 has the VATS. Use the 86 computer and chip, or get an aftermarket chip for an 88.

Or get the ARAP bin and disable VATS and burn your own chip.

If you use the 86 chip you might wanna keep the cold start injector, although it will prolly start OK without it unless it's very cold out.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Hey Guys,

FYI 86-94 blocks have the same casting #'s so technically it would be impossible to prove he swapped it with an older block.

We have the same Law here in Mass, and thats
how we get away with it.

-- Joe

RB83L69

My apologies for that mistake. If the 86 motor has the same "devices" on it as an 89 TPI car would have had, then it will probably pass, even out here.

I only recently moved here (I live in Vista actually, out where Oceanside, Vista and Carlsbad all come together) and went through this pleasant experience with my 83 a few weeks ago. Frankly I would have preferred hemorrhoid surgery without anesthetic if I could have got it licensed that way but I wasn't offered a choice. I could not believe how ****-retentive they were about checking all that stuff.

Interestingly enough, they don't have any kind of safety inspection out here at all. Hmmm.... let me think about this for a minute... the guy behind me in traffic has a car that doesn't pollute, but I have no clue whether his brakes work.... maybe I just don't understand what's really important in life, but I'd really prefer his brakes work.

Anesthes, once again, they don't check casting numbers or dates. That is irrelevant. They check devices not castings, and they run the car on a dyno.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

IROCZ89

RB,

I went through the same thing when I tranferred from FL. I agree, the smog ***** say it better not muck up the air, but who cares if it will stop or handle safely.

I live in oside off of Mesa Dr. between College and El Camino.

Thanks for all the input.

Phil

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89 IROC 5.0 TBI
Soon to be a 5.0 TPI, with a disk rear.

IROCZ89

Joel,

You are saying that I can use the ecm from my 89 (which the car everything is going into) and just change the chip? The rest of the wiring harness will work? The reason I ask is because of the different injection systems. Is the under the hood wiring different?

I might be mis understanding your reply.

Thanks,
Phil



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89 IROC 5.0 TBI
Soon to be a 5.0 TPI, with a disk rear.

Grim Reaper

No, you CANNOT use your 89 TBI ECM (8046) on a TPI MAF engine (165). The ECMs are totally different as well as the eproms. In fact, the TBI has just an eprom while the TPI uses a Memcal.

But, as Joel said, you can use the 86 ECM with the 86 TPI, but install an 89 TPI memcal (excluding VATS issues). The only thing you need to do is disable the cold start injector, as 89 TPIs do this via the regular injectors through the fuel tables, similar to the way SD cars do. For all intense and purposes, your TPI would then be identical to a 1989 TPI.

Or, you could just run with the 86 ECM and 86 Memcal. But, if the "techs" are astute, they may notice the Cold Start Injector and that you are using an older intake. Eliminating the Cold Start Injector would allow you to "claim" that it is an 89 TPI intake, provided they don't look too closely as there are differences in the plenums etc, due to that Cold Start Injector.

Of course, you COULD convert to SD, which would be even newer.

IROCZ89

The vats sysytem is the ignition security deal, right?

How much of a problem is eliminating the cold start going to be?

Again thanks for all the info.

Phil

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89 IROC 5.0 TBI
Soon to be a 5.0 TPI, with a disk rear.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Yeah I know, I was jst saying.. GM doesn't have castings for each year, just a series of years..

-- Joe

JoelOl75

The easiest way is to use the 89 computer with a 89 chip with VATS disabled. If your not into chips, I'm sure an aftermarket maker (Maybe Ed Wright?) could hook you up. The problem with using the old chip is the requirement of the cold start injector, and the problem with the 89 chip is the VATS and the car wont start. The 89 runners and plenum don't have the provision for the CSI, so it can't be easily added on. You could get away without it, but in the winter it might not start as easily as it should.

Sorry for any confusion, I thought you were going from 86TPI to 89TPI...