DA BRONX

This is the problem. The old starter seem to be dead, So I put the new starter in today.And guess what, it did the same thing which was nothing. I took the new starter back out I figured maybe I got another bad starter. I went over to the part store, they did a test check and it worked fine. So I went back home, put the starter back in and again nothing, I checked to see if I had power going to the starter and I did have power. Anyone know what else to look for? Its a 1988 formula 350 TPI with chip in key automatic tranny.

Vader

Does the starter solenoid even click?

Anvil

When you say you have power to the starter, does that mean you have power at the starter end of the cable or at the battery end of the cable?You need power at the starter end. It might be a bad cable. I replace the cable when I replace the starter.

DA BRONX

No, it doesn't do nothing at all.I have power at the stater. i checked it with a test light at the main stud on the solenoid.
Before all this happened the car started up,i ran it for about 10 mins shut it down then went to start it up again and that all she wrote ??????????So 2 starters late and i still have the same problem?

iroczracer07

iTrader: (2)

Get your spare key out and try to start the car. Your original chip might have worn down and is now causing the V.A.T.S. to stop you from being able to start the car. Same thing happened to me and it really p***ed me off.

TPIgirl

The purple wire going to the solenoid should get power when you turn the key to the start position. Did you check for that?

DA BRONX

I have no power going to the purple wire.I tested it for POS and NEG,when i put the test light to it on the NEG side i get nothing,But when i put the test light on it with a POS side i get a light?

DA BRONX

OK, I jumped the starter. I jumped the side of the starter were the purple wire goes and the car will start. So can i eliminate the VATS being the problem????

Stekman

Does it start in neutral?

iroczracer07

iTrader: (2)

Stekman suggested trying to start it in neutral. I think he might be heading in the direction of a neutral start switch that is faulty or out of adjustment. This is definately a possibility you should look into. Another possibility is that the ignition switch has gave up the ghost. I would investigate both of these possibilities further. Post back and let us know what's going on. I think TPIgirl was heading in the direction of the ignition module too. Both are very helpful posts. I just kinda condensed them, but I wanted to make sure credit also went to the people who suggested it first.

8Mike9

Did it start, or just turn over? If it just turned over, you cannot eliminate VATs...Vats disables the start enable relay and injectors, IIRC.

87zjeff

iTrader: (4)

doesn't that purple wire have a fusable link? that could be bad. that was were i thought tpigirl was going with it.

TPIgirl

The purple should be from the ignition switch under the dash.
I think if a fusable link was out then you'd lose power to some other things as well.
Maybe the VATS does disable the purple wire at the switch ?

Anyway, I know that when you turn the key to start the purple wire gets 12 volts normally.

87zjeff

iTrader: (4)

i don't know if it is the same exact problem or not. i had a fusable link go out a few years ago. when it did, the starter wouldn't do anything but i still had lights and everything else(guage lights,stereo, etc.)

DA BRONX

It started and ran fine,I shut it down with the key.I also tried to start the car in neutral it i wont start.The only way i can get the car to run is if i jump the starter.

rgarcia63

Either the VATS isn't grounding the starter enable relay, or there's no power to the relay's coil. The VATS is enabling the ECM, if it wasn't the injectors wouldn't fire.
Quick test, ground relay, turn key, if it starts the VATS module is faulty.

iroczracer07

iTrader: (2)

Rgarcia makes a good point that didn't occur to me. The fusible link suggestion is also a good point. I'd follow the purple wire back and see if you lose power anywhere. The fusible link is a possibility, but so is the fact that the wire could just be frayed. Just for clarification, when I said Igntion Module, I wasn't talking about the one in the Distributor. I think there's one under the dash, but I might be remembering it from my Mustang. I didn't see one on the Haynes wiring diagram. If somebody with a less faulty memory than my own wants to set the record straight, feel free.

DA BRONX

Which relay is it,were is it located?The book i have dont really help all that well.Thanks for helping out

8Mike9

Hmmn, just re-read original post, did Pontiac start using VATs in '88?

Anyways, starter enable relay in my '89 is behind the driverside kick panel. Hanyes/Chiltons should show it in the electrical diagram.

iroczracer07

iTrader: (2)

Front seating area, on the driver's side, under the dash, mounted just above kick panel just like 8mike9 suggested.

iroczracer07

iTrader: (2)

Did you already try using your spare ignition key to try to start the car?

DA BRONX

The guy that i bought the car from didnt have the spare key?
Is the relay part of the fues block or is it set off the side of the fuse block?

87zjeff

iTrader: (4)

ok my car,there is an ignition switch on the steering column that is actuated by a shaft that comes from the key cylinder area. the purple wire goes from this to the starter i believe.

Vader

When you get to the starter enable realy, you will also be near the ignition switch. A failing ignition switch can also cause your problem. A steering column that is worn, loose, and has sloppy linkage rods to the switch can also cause the proiblem. Does the system go to bulb test mode when you try to start? Does the temperature guage sweep to full scale?

Have you tried starting in neutral as suggested?

If you suspect the switch, have an assistant operate the ignition key while you check the voltage at the switch.

DA BRONX

I jumped the relay and the car truns over.Si i guess the relay is bad?

8Mike9

I don't have a schematic in front of me, but if the relay is getting power, and not energizing, yes, it's bad. Unsure if if power is appplied to energize, or ground is applied to energize...look a schematic over to verify.

DA BRONX

I want to thank all the guys and girls that helped me out.You are all great people, Thank you! Ill let you all know how i make out when i get the new relay in.I would of had it in today, but its a dealer part the part store guy told me.Thanks again

rgarcia63

Can you describe step by step how you jumped the relay?
This will help me determine if the relay is bad, or if you still might have a bad VATS module which, is located in the dash behind the HVAC system.
8Mike9 is correct:
Regardless of which circuit is faulty, once it's determined that the wiring, and starter relay are good, that leaves the VATS module.
If you permanently enable the start relay, the injector enable circuit will still protect your car, this circuit is more difficult to circumvent than the starter relay.

DA BRONX

I jumped the first contact on the hardness to each contacted on the heardness on the way down. till i got to the last contact point.Thats when It started rt up.??

pat202

hello all! i am having the same problem with my 92 firebird but the difference is that when i try to start it and it wont if i wait for 10 -15 minutes it will start plus it will go months some times before it does it again i get power to all my gauges, radio and head lights
i have changed the battery and starter anyone have an idea what it maybe causing this ????